Total War: ATTILA - Casus Belli Mod Pack

[Stealth4Health]

The second Unit Mod Pack, dedicated to the Lanciarii is already uploaded on Steam Workshop. I will try to make it public as soon as possible. I have still to fix some stuff. I'd also thought of redoing the Intercisa helmet again. I wasn't satisfied with the results... So it still might take a bit.

There are also new screenshots in the OP.

[Stealth4Health]

The new Intercisa helmet takes longer than expected, but I think it looks quite nice already!

[Slytacular]

I would remove the rivets and make a normal map to display those. Nobody is going to be able to see those very well and will display 1 pixel at the very most. I would also suggest to dissolve the extra edges on the rim of the cheek piece. Otherwise, its a very well done piece! I have a Burgh Castle Roman helmet somewhere on my computer. I'll donate the model to you if you want to texture it?

[Stealth4Health]

I would remove the rivets and make a normal map to display those. Nobody is going to be able to see those very well and will display 1 pixel at the very most. I would also suggest to dissolve the extra edges on the rim of the cheek piece. Otherwise, its a very well done piece! I have a Burgh Castle Roman helmet somewhere on my computer. I'll donate the model to you if you want to texture it?

Thanks! There was a nice YouTube video which helped me a lot with the creation of this helmet. And yeah, I will use this version of the model to bake the normal map and then probably remove the minor details of the model. But first I will try to use the high quality model in the game just since I am curious to see its impact on performance. I was away for one week now but today I should finally be able to finish the textures of the model. I will post some renderings when they are ready! Because of the Burgh Castle helmet, I will do want to do the models myself. But I would still be glad if you send me it just to see how it was done, the topology, et cetera...

[Stealth4Health]

This really takes way longer than I expected. At least the helmet textures are almost finished. The eyes are still missing and I will redo the chinstrap. But otherwise, I think it looks great! Especially the stitching

[LinusLinothorax]

Sieht echt geil aus That render looks almost photo-realistic.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Some points about your models:

1. On the Tunica Manicata, the sleeve stripes were never at the end of the sleeve. They were always at least about 1 centimeter from the edge. You couldn't do the decoration right if they were on the edge of the sleeve anyways, due to the way the tunics were made.



2. The Spathae you have made, which come from Attila which are based off of Deepeeka's AH2002N "Late Late Roman Spatha", are bad representations of Late 2nd to Early 4th century Lauriacum-Hromovka type blades. Notably, the one Deepeeka's is based off of is a late 3rd century or early 4th century example found at Cologne.

More appropriate blades for this time period would be the Feltwell Blade, or the Pouan Blade. Also the Trier Blade.

Trier, c.a. 380-400 AD:




The Deepeeka Feltwell, which I helped develop, c.a. 400-425 AD:




**The blade is Hexagonal, not fullered.

Pouan and belt fittings, with neck Torque, ring, and wrist Armilla, Gothic or Burgundian, c.a. 470 AD:



Reconstruction here:
http://en.ordalies.com/replicas.php

This man here, the mid-5th century Kemathen Warrior, has a Germanic Type-I Spatha:



Altlussheim Spatha, mid 5th-early 6th century. Hunnic. I can provide further images of a historically accurate reconstruction (not including the gold scabbard foil pieces) but will take some time to upload.



3. Your Plumbata is based off the Deepeeka one, which although improved is still rather overweight. The Strategikon's suggestion that they were carried in quivers is more practical, although both reconstructions are valid.



4. The Spiculum and Verrutum both had Barbed points on short iron shafts. The Lancea was an alternate name for the Verrutum, the spear itself was called a Contus and was about 8 foot long for infantry, 12 foot for cavalry.



Verruta with leaf-bladed points. Leaf-bladed and trilobate points are both validated by the archaeological record, the latter particularly for the Huns.



A Spiculum



Spicula heads, based on the find from Arbeia.



A Spiculum head from Nydam.

5. Your oval shield should be edged with rawhide or leather, stitched on. They were typically dished, although some flat examples are supported by shield boss shapes. By the time of Attila, pointed shield bosses were more common than domed ones. Ovoid shields were also very wide, oftentimes almost circular. All oval late Roman shields measured about 39-42 inches in length and 34-38 in width, based on the seven or so examples from Dura Europos. Large circular shields were also in use. Smaller, lenticular circular shields existed too of course, primarily for cavalry and standard-bearer usage.





Otherwise, keep up the good work.

I can provide tons more about the timeframe from 395-455 in terms of military equipment. It's the little things, like belt fittings, scabbard fittings, and boot styles, that can make the difference between it being an early 4th century and late 4th century impression.

Also, sextapartite helmets fell out of use in the 5th century (think the Berkasova type). However, Bipartite helmets continued in use, particularly ones with earguards and Berkasova-style cheekpieces, as well as more classic Intercisa-style cheekpieces (sometimes with earguards as well). See the Koblenz helmet, for example.

However, the Concesti helmet (425 AD, Romano-Hunnic) is an exception, being of sextapartite bowl construction. It is notably lacking a neckguard, suggesting it may have had a maille coif instead.

EDIT: I reenact the Roman army of 425-454 AD, by the way.

https://www.facebook.com/Placidi-Val...7288724006375/

[LinusLinothorax]

You both should cooperate to create some ultra historical accurate models-pack. Attila i still waiting for a hardcore historical mod.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

I'd be willing. It's a lot of work, most of Attila's assets would need to be remodeled, and I would have the light end of it. So it's up to Stealth4Health.

Big problem with even Invasio Barbarorum, is that on their unit models they're using equipment from across one and a half centuries. Like I said, a Spatha of the Lauriacum-Hromovka type with a Deposit date of ~300 AD wouldn't be found on a soldier in the Attila timeframe, for example. Neither would a Baldenheim be found on a Germanic soldier before ~ 440 AD (the earliest Baldenheim is from Stuttgart and dates to ~ 470). Yet we see modern artists and reenactors putting them on 4th century Germanic warriors all the time.

[Stealth4Health]

Sieht echt geil aus That render looks almost photo-realistic.

Danke! I am surprised myself. Did not think I would be able to get that result.

Some points about your models:

1. On the Tunica Manicata, the sleeve stripes were never at the end of the sleeve. They were always at least about 1 centimeter from the edge. You couldn't do the decoration right if they were on the edge of the sleeve anyways, due to the way the tunics were made.



2. The Spathae you have made, which come from Attila which are based off of Deepeeka's AH2002N "Late Late Roman Spatha", are bad representations of Late 2nd to Early 4th century Lauriacum-Hromovka type blades. Notably, the one Deepeeka's is based off of is a late 3rd century or early 4th century example found at Cologne.

More appropriate blades for this time period would be the Feltwell Blade, or the Pouan Blade. Also the Trier Blade.

Trier, c.a. 380-400 AD:




The Deepeeka Feltwell, which I helped develop, c.a. 400-425 AD:




**The blade is Hexagonal, not fullered.

Pouan and belt fittings, with neck Torque, ring, and wrist Armilla, Gothic or Burgundian, c.a. 470 AD:



Reconstruction here:
http://en.ordalies.com/replicas.php

This man here, the mid-5th century Kemathen Warrior, has a Germanic Type-I Spatha:



Altlussheim Spatha, mid 5th-early 6th century. Hunnic. I can provide further images of a historically accurate reconstruction (not including the gold scabbard foil pieces) but will take some time to upload.



3. Your Plumbata is based off the Deepeeka one, which although improved is still rather overweight. The Strategikon's suggestion that they were carried in quivers is more practical, although both reconstructions are valid.



4. The Spiculum and Verrutum both had Barbed points on short iron shafts. The Lancea was an alternate name for the Verrutum, the spear itself was called a Contus and was about 8 foot long for infantry, 12 foot for cavalry.



Verruta with leaf-bladed points. Leaf-bladed and trilobate points are both validated by the archaeological record, the latter particularly for the Huns.



A Spiculum



Spicula heads, based on the find from Arbeia.



A Spiculum head from Nydam.

5. Your oval shield should be edged with rawhide or leather, stitched on. They were typically dished, although some flat examples are supported by shield boss shapes. By the time of Attila, pointed shield bosses were more common than domed ones. Ovoid shields were also very wide, oftentimes almost circular. All oval late Roman shields measured about 39-42 inches in length and 34-38 in width, based on the seven or so examples from Dura Europos. Large circular shields were also in use. Smaller, lenticular circular shields existed too of course, primarily for cavalry and standard-bearer usage.





Otherwise, keep up the good work.

I can provide tons more about the timeframe from 395-455 in terms of military equipment. It's the little things, like belt fittings, scabbard fittings, and boot styles, that can make the difference between it being an early 4th century and late 4th century impression.

Also, sextapartite helmets fell out of use in the 5th century (think the Berkasova type). However, Bipartite helmets continued in use, particularly ones with earguards and Berkasova-style cheekpieces, as well as more classic Intercisa-style cheekpieces (sometimes with earguards as well). See the Koblenz helmet, for example.

However, the Concesti helmet (425 AD, Romano-Hunnic) is an exception, being of sextapartite bowl construction. It is notably lacking a neckguard, suggesting it may have had a maille coif instead.

EDIT: I reenact the Roman army of 425-454 AD, by the way.

https://www.facebook.com/Placidi-Val...7288724006375/

Thanks for all the interesting information! I would be happy if you could provide more from time to time! I will see and try to correct the inaccuracies you were pointing out as soon as there is time.
Now here are two renderings of a new WIP Feltwell Spatha model I have worked on today based on the Deepeeka one you helped to develop:




Any comments?

You both should cooperate to create some ultra historical accurate models-pack. Attila i still waiting for a hardcore historical mod.

Hehe, that sounds nice!

I'd be willing. It's a lot of work, most of Attila's assets would need to be remodeled, and I would have the light end of it. So it's up to Stealth4Health.

Big problem with even Invasio Barbarorum, is that on their unit models they're using equipment from across one and a half centuries. Like I said, a Spatha of the Lauriacum-Hromovka type with a Deposit date of ~300 AD wouldn't be found on a soldier in the Attila timeframe, for example. Neither would a Baldenheim be found on a Germanic soldier before ~ 440 AD (the earliest Baldenheim is from Stuttgart and dates to ~ 470). Yet we see modern artists and reenactors putting them on 4th century Germanic warriors all the time.

Yeah, I have my plan already and indeed, it will be a lot of work. Though I did not want to make that a project with multiple modders involved... but it would be super awesome if you could be my historical adviser here! Or just respond to a couple of questions from time to time! That'd be very nice.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Yeah I can do the historical advising. I don't know how to mod Attila, never could figure it out.

[LinusLinothorax]

Glorious, can't wait to see what you both will pull off for the Western Romans. When you guys are done with the Romans (and eventually Germanics, if Aetius wants to help with them aswell?) and I did my stuff for Meroe I can hop in and share Nobadian stuff.


Btw. Aetius, two questions:

1) Did the Eastern Rmans already started to use equipment different from the Western Romans, like scale and lamellar armour, or appeared the "Byzantinoid" equipment only later?
2) I believe I showed you that one already, but what do you think about this chamfron:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Its made of copper alloy and was found in Soba, near modern Khartoum, Sudan (Later the capital of the Kingdom of Alodia). It probably was stitched on a leather background via the small holes.
Someone told me that its massively resembles early Imperial chamfrons like this, mostly because of its paisley design:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I was speculating that it might have come that far South as a booty of the Meroitic-Roman war during the 20's of the first century BC, but eventually its much younger and from Attila timeframe. An other possiblity might be trade or that its a local immitation. What do you think?

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

I do believe horse Chamfrons existed at this time, yes.

As for Eastern vs. Western Roman equipment... yes and no. Local styles varied: belt fittings, boot styles, etc. But an actual de-romanization of military equipment wouldn't occur until after the collapse of the Western Army: it's at that point where we begin to see Spangenhelmets and Bandhelmets replace Intercisa and Koblenz style helmets.

A lot of 5th century stuff will be interpretive or conjectural. I will let you guys know now. I'll post some stuff tonight. I might do a few digital drawings on my tablet too, to show what I'm talking about. Will spend some time this week on 5th century military equipment, I'll start with Roman.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

So just some ideas for Roman military equipment appropriate to the Attila timeframe:

This is the Concesti Helmet, dated to approximately 425 AD and found in a Hunnic burial, but of Roman origin. It is a sextapartite helmet, unlike most helmets of the era which were bipartite. It is also of Roman origin, and notably has an unusually tall bowl shape.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is the Iatrus Helmet, dated to the late 4th century AD, possibly early 5th century AD.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Sinj Spangenhelmet. I have seen this one, along with the example from Zadar both dated to the 6th century. However the Leiden Helmet is dated to the 4th century, so this helmet is also acceptable for 5th century. It is probably non-Roman, but the Leiden example is Roman.

I would suggest this for the "upgraded" units to represent the change in military equipment over the course of the 5th century. Beginning after the massive devastation to the Roman military estbalishment under Attila, military equipment begins to take largely barbarian overtones. After 440-450, as the East rebuilt its army and the West's army deserted vis-a-vis Aetius' death, Ridge helmets largely become supplanted by banded helmets, spangenhelmes, and baldenheims.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

the River Maas helmet. Contrary to what this image shows, this was an Augst-style (Intercisa-I) helmet with an Intercisa IV metal crest. It was sheathed in silver and had a gilded or gold Chi-Rho piece on the front of the crest, which was also gilded, as pictured. It is conclusively dated to 411 AD, from the River Maas in Gaul.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is the Tenes horde belt, which can be effectively dated to the Vandal invasion of Africa (429-439 AD). The image on the ring is thought to be Galla Placidia, and it is believed to have belonged to a 5th century Roman officer. It is of the Pseudo-Hispanic Type of belts. The bottom-left plate is the affixture for the belt buckle, while the bottom-right buckle was for a baldric, or possibly a sword-belt.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

These following two images are two 5th century Tunics from Egypt. I'm afraid I cannot give more specific information than that. The color of both tunics is white or off-white.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I have other ideas... a few derived from 5th century Art. I would have to draw them in order to explain the interpretation though. I will get more appropriate belts (like the Le Mont Belt), swords, etc. to post here. I also need to hunt down some 5th century Roman boot styles. The ones I have are Germanic. At this time the most popular shoe was the Campagus.

[Stealth4Health]

So just some ideas for Roman military equipment appropriate to the Attila timeframe:

This is the Concesti Helmet, dated to approximately 425 AD and found in a Hunnic burial, but of Roman origin. It is a sextapartite helmet, unlike most helmets of the era which were bipartite. It is also of Roman origin, and notably has an unusually tall bowl shape.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is the Iatrus Helmet, dated to the late 4th century AD, possibly early 5th century AD.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Sinj Spangenhelmet. I have seen this one, along with the example from Zadar both dated to the 6th century. However the Leiden Helmet is dated to the 4th century, so this helmet is also acceptable for 5th century. It is probably non-Roman, but the Leiden example is Roman.

I would suggest this for the "upgraded" units to represent the change in military equipment over the course of the 5th century. Beginning after the massive devastation to the Roman military estbalishment under Attila, military equipment begins to take largely barbarian overtones. After 440-450, as the East rebuilt its army and the West's army deserted vis-a-vis Aetius' death, Ridge helmets largely become supplanted by banded helmets, spangenhelmes, and baldenheims.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

the River Maas helmet. Contrary to what this image shows, this was an Augst-style (Intercisa-I) helmet with an Intercisa IV metal crest. It was sheathed in silver and had a gilded or gold Chi-Rho piece on the front of the crest, which was also gilded, as pictured. It is conclusively dated to 411 AD, from the River Maas in Gaul.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is the Tenes horde belt, which can be effectively dated to the Vandal invasion of Africa (429-439 AD). The image on the ring is thought to be Galla Placidia, and it is believed to have belonged to a 5th century Roman officer. It is of the Pseudo-Hispanic Type of belts. The bottom-left plate is the affixture for the belt buckle, while the bottom-right buckle was for a baldric, or possibly a sword-belt.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

These following two images are two 5th century Tunics from Egypt. I'm afraid I cannot give more specific information than that. The color of both tunics is white or off-white.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I have other ideas... a few derived from 5th century Art. I would have to draw them in order to explain the interpretation though. I will get more appropriate belts (like the Le Mont Belt), swords, etc. to post here. I also need to hunt down some 5th century Roman boot styles. The ones I have are Germanic. At this time the most popular shoe was the Campagus.

Thanks for that, I will see what I can do!

[LinusLinothorax]

I have other ideas... a few derived from 5th century Art.

Art is easily the greatest type of source for researching Total War stuff, especially if you are researching late Antique Romans. For example, the amount of mosaics is ridiculous. Btw, if you want I can keep an eye open for Roman mosaics from North Africa.

Something else: If I were you I would order all the sources in some kind of graphic, like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In that graphic I ordered different types of swords, ordered in lines (Line 1 = Type 1 and so on). I could see something similiar fitting greatly for helmets etc.

[LinusLinothorax]

Just couldn't hold myself, so I scanned some stuff. Will send it to you, Aetius.

[Stealth4Health]

Art is easily the greatest type of source for researching Total War stuff, especially if you are researching late Antique Romans. For example, the amount of mosaics is ridiculous. Btw, if you want I can keep an eye open for Roman mosaics from North Africa.

Something else: If I were you I would order all the sources in some kind of graphic, like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In that graphic I ordered different types of swords, ordered in lines (Line 1 = Type 1 and so on). I could see something similiar fitting greatly for helmets etc.

Ah, I think I did the second one for Vae Victis already.

[Stealth4Health]

Another new Spatha model:

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

That's a 2nd Century AD Spatha.