One of the most retarded things i've seen

[Ano2]

Okay heres a real diplomacy corker on m/vh.

I am the Danes, and for about 80 turns i was allied with Poland. I regularly gave them tribute, did everything right, and had perfect relations.

Now the Poles were getting their asses handed to them by the Russians, and the Russians took one of their cities near me. Now I send a diplomat over to the Poles offering to attack Russia, to see what they'd give me (Everyone wins right?).

Well they make a counteroffer of attack the Russians or we will attack. This was retarded in itself. I accept, not wanting to lose my ally.

So I get an army together, and attack the Russians, taking the city. Next turn Poles attack the city, breaking our alliance and declarting war on their perfect relations ally, just so they could get their stupid city back.

Can anyone really defend this shockingly awful piece of diplomacy?

Other things they could have done:

1) Ask me for the city.
2) Attack one of the other Russian provinces.
3) Attack one of the neigbouring rebel provinces.

[Germanicus75]

I agree, this makes no sense. The diplomacy AI does need an overhaul.

[Spiff]

It could just be represented by the fact that this particular king was a bit stupid and didn't think it through i suppose - people shouldn't expect the AI to be a brilliant strategist, or indeed do what you may think to be the most intelligent thing all the time.

[Ano2]

It could just be represented by the fact that this particular king was a bit stupid and didn't think it through i suppose - people shouldn't expect the AI to be a brilliant strategist, or indeed do what you may think to be the most intelligent thing all the time.

So opening a war on another front against one of your most trusted allies is clever in ANYONE's mind? Its a nice idea, with the idiot king, but utter bs as we both know.

[Sosobra]

It could just be represented by the fact that this particular king was a bit stupid and didn't think it through i suppose - people shouldn't expect the AI to be a brilliant strategist, or indeed do what you may think to be the most intelligent thing all the time.

or it could be a AI that quite frankly is as impressive as a chimp. Making excuse for it does not help, an incompetent AI is not a feature. I personally don't want it to be brilliant all the time, just once in awhile would nice.

[Sulla's Dog]

It could just be represented by the fact that this particular king was a bit stupid and didn't think it through i suppose - people shouldn't expect the AI to be a brilliant strategist, or indeed do what you may think to be the most intelligent thing all the time.

I apologize, but explaining away "stupid" AI by saying the king might be stupid is in no way, shape or form an acceptable excuse.

There's no brilliant strategy or great intelligence involved in not attacking the ally that just came to your aid.

Sorry for venting, nothing personal!

[nahirean]

It could just be represented by the fact that this particular king was a bit stupid and didn't think it through i suppose - people shouldn't expect the AI to be a brilliant strategist, or indeed do what you may think to be the most intelligent thing all the time.

That's a bit of a stretch.

I believe they could have certainly done a better job. How hard is it to store "Positive" variables when you do something "Good" for a faction to serve as "Memory" at least as long as the king lives? This is basic stuff.

[Wurfspiess]

Hm i think the AI recognizes the citys it once owned
When i ask em for a ceasfire they want sometimes exactly those provinces back i took.
but yes they could have asked for it

[KIllerGecko]

The big surprise is this, If you were another AI faction, they probably never would of attacked you when you did this. I was watching something odd while testing my mod. for 60 turns i sat as Denmark just watching the AI expand and fight.
I noticed that when ever i played as england on my map, the AI was all over my ass. When i was denmark and watched... the AI almost never touched england, hell i never even saw Scotland attack england! but when you're england... its stack after stack. long story short. The AI is extra violent to human players. Its like any AI near the player is shot up with Adrenaline, they expand faster, are more aggressive and seem to get more alliances against you than they would to another AI they were at war with.

[shadyrome]

unlucky

[Inhuman One]

I see some sense in the actions of the polish king.

He might have thought that the danes would just want to use the opportunity to take that city from poland while making it seem like a good deed.

[Wurfspiess]

I see some sense in the actions of the polish king.

He might have thought that the danes would just want to use the opportunity to take that city from poland while making it seem like a good deed.

Aye
"dont trust the Danes,even when they bring gifts"

[Ano2]

Yeah but thats where rep should come into it. I had a flawless reputation, if they had asked for it I would have given it to them (I remember a feature in MTW where if you took a castle from your allies enemy it would automatically return to them, as long as it had been taken recently).

[NoSiS]

yea ive seen alot of stuff like that, usualy just makes me laugh because after a 'smart' move like that it never takes long for that faction to get eliminated

[Fuhrer Euik]

I completely disagree with the Adrenaline-pumped factions near you. In my English Campaign, the Scots never did anything. The Holy Roman Empire is a Vassal to Denmark, and French had a little less than 3 stacks total units before I destroyed them.

I think the diplomacy is fine, btw.

[Ano2]

Good for you, I'm genuinely glad diplomacy works for you, however for most of us it doesn't at all.

More to the point, I did everything right. Whats the point if this happens?

[italiano]

Again this is a problem of the AI programmed to place expansion above survival.

[Germanicus75]

Again this is a problem of the AI programmed to place expansion above survival.

Nail. Head.

I think this single point covers much of what is wrong with the campaign AI and diplomacy at this time.

[crazyj]

They didn't want to ask you for it. You should have just given them the city to shut their yaps for the next 20 turns.

Your other mistake was not picking Hungary as your ally. I played a Danish campaign on M cpd/ VH btld as well and was originally allied to the Polish for awhile, along with the Papal States (my only allies). The Poles broke the alliance but I quickly forced them into a ceasefire and traderights then allied with Hungary. I ended up just fighting the HRE and Milan for the next 100 turns, during which Hungary stayed allied to me. After taking Magdeburg I had a nice north/south line of Stettin, Magdeburg, Frankfurt, Nuremburg, and Insbrook and Hungary had everything East. Milan had everything south of that line, same distance east to west and England very soon would have all of France.

At some point, probably 30 turns of the alliance or so, (1 turn/year) they offered new mutual map info, at which point I counter offered with that along with mutual military access and they accepted. I let them fight the Poles until the only territory they had near me was Magdeburg, while the Hungarians had a nice empire of Hungary, Wallachia/Moldavia/Romania and everything else the Poles acquired right up to the Baltic and a border with a Russia.

Russia attacked and fought us both, with Poland as their vassal basically just 2 territories absorbed into Russia's belly while we also fought Milan in the South (They had Milan, Venice, Balkans, everything south of Hungarian control and in the west much of France for a time) along with England, who eventually held all of the Isles and France. Papal States held Rome, Bologna, and Florence.

Was quite an awesome campaign.

[chaos]

So I get an army together, and attack the Russians, taking the city. Next turn Poles attack the city, breaking our alliance and declarting war on their perfect relations ally, just so they could get their stupid city back.

Can anyone really defend this shockingly awful piece of diplomacy?

I can.

The AI Poles did not want you to take thier city from the Russians, as they viewed this city as legitimately theirs. They were planning to take the city for themselves in order to liberate the Polish inhabitants from the tyrannical Russians. What happened was that one illegitimate ruler was replaced with with another. Poles are preprogrammed to beware of Danes bearing gifts.