poor scotland

**NoSiS** · November 29, 2006, 12:47 PM

so im playing as scotland right now, and i love their infantry/highland nobles and noble pikemen

but their archers are brutal, the range is tiiny and the accuracy is crap too (maybe im just used to england) but i didnt mind, i figured id focus on infantry until the gunpowder eras where my tactics would be about pikes and guns

but i just realized, the scots dont get ANY gun units, not even handgunners! thats crazy! it just doesnt make sense to me, every faction should get arquebusiers and musketeers at some point

presumably by the time gun powder hits, if scotlands still in it they will have beaten out england, so its safe to assume scotland would be as advanced if not more advanced as england by then, they should totally get gunpowder units

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrgsashfkjjdfgewqfasfdsfhg

**Wurfspiess** · November 29, 2006, 12:54 PM

Its a known fact that no Scott ever used a pistol or musket
(you are right of course.At least they should have the basic gunpowder units)

**NoSiS** · November 29, 2006, 01:10 PM

its also a known fact that scotland never eliminated england, and this is basicaly my point

england gets arquebusiers, and ive eliminated them, but i do not get arquebusiers!?!?

that does not make sense! if chewbacca was a wookie, who lived on endor, you must equit! it DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!

**Wurfspiess** · November 29, 2006, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by NoSiS

its also a known fact that scotland never eliminated england, and this is basicaly my point

england gets arquebusiers, and ive eliminated them, but i do not get arquebusiers!?!?

that does not make sense! if chewbacca was a wookie, who lived on endor, you must equit! it DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!

uhm i was agreeing with you

my first line was a joke

**shadyrome** · November 29, 2006, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by NoSiS

its also a known fact that scotland never eliminated england, and this is basicaly my point

england gets arquebusiers, and ive eliminated them, but i do not get arquebusiers!?!?

that does not make sense! if chewbacca was a wookie, who lived on endor, you must equit! it DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!

YEA! i destoryed the germans!!! why dont i get gothic knight's!!!!!

**Wurfspiess** · November 29, 2006, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by shadyrome

YEA! i destoryed the germans!!! why dont i get gothic knight's!!!!!

Cause we are still alive

**NoSiS** · November 29, 2006, 01:14 PM

i know, my third line was a joke

i was just reitterating my point, dont worry ;p

EDIT: likewise, england should get pikes etc etc, but thats been beaten to death - this is what bugs me, these were available technologies at the time, so in a war even the least advanced factions are going to steal the technology to compete - so far my campaign is going great, but im worred that when the gunpowder starts showing up, ill be at a bit of a loss

**jabo0511** · November 29, 2006, 01:38 PM

they don't have gunpowder units but have seen the highlanders and the nobles in action??? They are probably the 2 best infantry units in the game (other than JHI). Playing as scots you just have to keep mass producing the highlanders and the nobles and keep expanding. In my suspended scots campaign this is my typical army:

1 general
2 border horse/feudal knights (border horse is awesome and very fast!)
3 noble archers
2 catapults/trebs
5 highlanders
7 nobles

and I have another stack of 5 highland/noble pikemen behind the main army so if I'm facing a cav. heavy opponent I just swap out the highlanders with pikemen. When you start the battle you put your cavalry on both flanks or you can mass them on one flank. Skirmish a bit with your archers and then just charge with your infantry while border horse encircle the enemy and charge their rear (just like in Braveheart).

**Spiff** · November 29, 2006, 01:42 PM

Scotland can always just recruit mercenary gunpowder units if needs be, there are usually a few available on the continent.

**Hamish of Clan Dickson** · November 29, 2006, 06:33 PM

Its a known fact that no Scott ever used a pistol or musket

Exuse me....but the Highlanders did eventualy adopt pistols and muskets, they just kept using swords and shields and pikes as well.

**jimbob** · November 29, 2006, 06:44 PM

How can we argue when you're using the chewbacca defence? I guess I better just give you my bank details and my sister here and now.

Not a great solution.. but scotland has to rely on merc gunners.

**BattleDrumz** · November 29, 2006, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Hamish of Clan Dickson

Exuse me....but the Highlanders did eventualy adopt pistols and muskets, they just kept using swords and shields and pikes as well.

'Tis true. During the Jacobite rebellion, the Scotts had a simple but deadly strategy that got them almost all the way to London. Aim their muskets, fire one volley, draw baskethilt-claymores with one hand, targe and dagger in the other, and charge. The leather and wood targes couldn't stop a muskett ball, but it could a bayonette. The trick was to get close... and they did. Battle after battle, the Jacobites slaughtered the English till someone got a little wiser.

Anyways, the rest is history. I can't complain though. Scottish Nobles are the sickest thing on the battlefield - Early, High, or Late.

**OG Grenadier** · November 29, 2006, 07:11 PM

It would be nice to see a realistic , amicable relationship between Scotland and France in the game. That would lend a great deal of extra value if you could unit swap between factions who are in high standing on the diplomacy scale.

Also keep in mind that Scotland favoured an in your face, fight like Scotsmen up close and personal style of combat and for the most part lacked the discipline required to stand in formation and fire black powder weapons.

No sir, with a roar of Alba gu brath! they would be all over you like well... you get the idea.

**Soggius Chippius** · November 29, 2006, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by OG Grenadier

It would be nice to see a realistic , amicable relationship between Scotland and France in the game. That would lend a great deal of extra value if you could unit swap between factions who are in high standing on the diplomacy scale.

Also keep in mind that Scotland favoured an in your face, fight like Scotsmen up close and personal style of combat and for the most part lacked the discipline required to stand in formation and fire black powder weapons.

No sir, with a roar of Alba gu brath! they would be all over you like well... you get the idea.

But that's not to say that they wouldn't adopt guns when the technology came along in order to stay competitive as a Kingdom. The problem with the Scots is that their lineup is based mostly around the sort of units they used while they were still independant. By the time gunpowder came along, they were basically part of England, even if they were at times powerful enough to get their own way. The fact that the lowland Scots military, even while they were independant, was mostly a copy of the English military is a good hint towards them adopting guns if they were in a position to choose. Sure, the highland Scots possibly wouldn't want a bar of it, but the lowlanders would take the new tech no board just like any other self-respecting kingdom.

**Hamish of Clan Dickson** · November 29, 2006, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by BattleDrumz
'Tis true. During the Jacobite rebellion, the Scotts had a simple but deadly strategy that got them almost all the way to London. Aim their muskets, fire one volley, draw baskethilt-claymores with one hand, targe and dagger in the other, and charge. The leather and wood targes couldn't stop a muskett ball, but it could a bayonette. The trick was to get close... and they did. Battle after battle, the Jacobites slaughtered the English till someone got a little wiser.

Anyways, the rest is history. I can't complain though. Scottish Nobles are the sickest thing on the battlefield - Early, High, or Late.

Ach! Its good tae see somebody who know as much as i do about scottish history and is actualy interested... GOOD ON YA LADDIE!!

Oh!... and that someone who got wiser...i believe it was "Bucher" Cumberland

at the battle of Culloden Moor in 1746...he was a real mean BASTARD!!!

**OG Grenadier** · November 29, 2006, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by Soggius Chippius

But that's not to say that they wouldn't adopt guns when the technology came along in order to stay competitive as a Kingdom. The problem with the Scots is that their lineup is based mostly around the sort of units they used while they were still independant. By the time gunpowder came along, they were basically part of England, even if they were at times powerful enough to get their own way. The fact that the lowland Scots military, even while they were independant, was mostly a copy of the English military is a good hint towards them adopting guns if they were in a position to choose. Sure, the highland Scots possibly wouldn't want a bar of it, but the lowlanders would take the new tech no board just like any other self-respecting kingdom.

Oh absolutely, I am speaking generally.

**shadyrome** · November 29, 2006, 07:13 PM

would be nice trading techlogy aswell, so i can make french units

**shadyrome** · November 29, 2006, 07:20 PM

would be nice trading techlogy aswell, so i can make french units

**the_mango55** · November 29, 2006, 09:35 PM

I agree completely

As soon as we can mod the game I'm gonna add a Highland musketeer unit, which will be good at melee, with stats similar to the cossack musketeers, but not as powerful guns.