Experimental Pack Reborn - patch 09.04.2016

[joeyguy82]

No worries mate, its good to be busy

Yeah, sorry for that, I had a time to only turn on Rome 2 once this week and only for few minutes :/ I might have time to mod a little in the middle of next week but I can't even promise that for sure, past few months I always told myself "Ok, Kam, you will finish up that thing and then you will have a bit free time to mod!" After saying it to myself each week for past 4 months I finally stopped lying to myself and all I can say it that it will be done when it is done :/

[joeyguy82]

No worries mate, its good to be busy

Yeah, sorry for that, I had a time to only turn on Rome 2 once this week and only for few minutes :/ I might have time to mod a little in the middle of next week but I can't even promise that for sure, past few months I always told myself "Ok, Kam, you will finish up that thing and then you will have a bit free time to mod!" After saying it to myself each week for past 4 months I finally stopped lying to myself and all I can say it that it will be done when it is done :/

[bogac94]

I want to install increased disband ratio pack but what's CTD meaning ?

[FlashHeart07]

I want to install increased disband ratio pack but what's CTD meaning ?

CTD means, Crash To Desktop. Some people and we dont know exactly why, had their game crash when the disband ratio was set to.. a number I cannot remember. So we cannot be sure that increased disband ratios wont crash your game. Hence the little warning. But its shouldnt be a problem, as you would simply delete the submod if you experience frequent crashes.

[KAM 2150]

Updated with super early version of speed change. Note, I have very small amount of time for modding, I haven't even tried out our population system yet ;D What I would like you guys to do is to check how this pack perform with various nations and if possible answer to those questions:

1. Does it work better with the Pack no. 3 (deployment zone) or without it?
2. How does AI go along with it?
3. Is infantry speed still to fast?
4. What do you think about light infantry speed?
5. What do you think about overal cavalry unit speed? (This one is I think only slightly changed compared to regular DeI).

[eferos93]

Hello there,

some pike units (levy, kleruchoi and phalangitai) can run. Is this intended? I think they should walk as phalanx was a heavy unit, even levies.

[KAM 2150]

Ahh, yeah, my mistake, they have light entry, I will fix it later

[philler]

To KAM: Just a simple question, why won't be the Pack no. 3 included in 1.2? From the first draw (I had the possibility to try only one battle), the battle worked exactly how it should. It looks like a perfect match with Pack no. 1. On the other hand, the increased disband ratio is too punishing in the current beta version with quite strict population system, which makes it very hard to compete with AI's inexhaustible noble+warrior classes. I will do another testing (propably tomorrow), but even with the discutable drawbacks you outlined, I still think Pack no 1. and 3. has to be packed together. It has, at least from the first impression, the most desirable effect when used as a combination.

[KAM 2150]

People would hang us on a nearest tree for that

[philler]

People would hang us on a nearest tree for that

Well, I still dont get why :-) The battles finally looks like real ones, the reserves play actually a role now. With skirmishers being more important factor and with pikes being eventually solved, I really se no reason, why people could possibly dont want that.

[KAM 2150]

Well, the battles would take them too much time, just check what was latest hot topic here ; P Even current battles are too slow for many.

There is still a lot of tunning to be done here, but I am very happy that you enjoy this pack. What are your thoughts on the speed? As you probably noticed, heavy and medium infantry can still run but it is rather double march so run animation does not even trigger. And what do you feel about unit speed once units are exhausted?

[philler]

Feedback (normal difficulty)

Well, the battles would take them too much time, just check what was latest hot topic here ; P Even current battles are too slow for many.

There is still a lot of tunning to be done here, but I am very happy that you enjoy this pack. What are your thoughts on the speed? As you probably noticed, heavy and medium infantry can still run but it is rather double march so run animation does not even trigger. And what do you feel about unit speed once units are exhausted?

Honestly, after some more testing, I just love the changes Although it surely needs some polishing, the core idea brings some new stuff at least from my recent experience (I played like 5 custom battles in the morning). I dont even know why, but the most apparent change is really active AI cav. In those 5 battles I saw AI cav flanking, helping to comrades, that was losing ground and charging straight from the beginning into my front lines (but with almost immediate withdrawal with minimal looses, looked veeeery cool ). As a matter of fact, to argue against your fear of public lynching from TWcenter forum members, the fight started almost instantly, thanks to the close deployment zones. I think, that I have such a good results, because I play with large (not ultra) unit sizes, so maybe for players with ultra sizes, the deployment zones could be stretched little bit. The increased disband ratio, at least for me, seems bit redundant, since the fleeing units are quite slow and you can kill a tone of them thanks to the cav. Additionally, I have objections to uselfulness of Pack no. 2 thanks to the pop system, which is quite harsh as it is.

Another observation I made is that the battles are much more dynamic, as you have already said. Every battle had different scenario, breaking the lines are much more common and punishing now. It seems, like BAI is thanks to the limited place very competent now, actually, I saw a lot of really smart moves by my AI opponents (especially by cav). The example above all, when I was fighting against Arverni - the battle started, the frontlines including flanks engaged each other. To this point, I was quite sattisfied with my battle formations. But after some time (really like 1-2 minutes), I noticed, that AI was deliberately hidding 2 units of naked warriors in the woods, waiting for the opportunity. They vigorously attacked my left flank from convenient angle, causing instant panic among my troops. They routed my lower morale spearmen and if I had not had my cavalry reserves, they would have almost certainly annihilated all of my warriors on that flank. They routed them anyway, but with costly casualties, since I managed to execute some juicy rear attacks with cav mentioned above. That is only one example, how AI really outmaneuvred me like this. From those 5 battles, I lost "only" one against Seleucids, but all of those were very close. It is also way harder for player to flank and execute rear attacks, because of reserves and cav, that AI can maintain with high level of discipline. That was something not very common according to my experiences with former versions.

To be more concrete, I will address some of your questions. The unit speed seems alright as it is, however, there are some units (levy pikes, some medium spearmen (not sure if this is intentional or not)) still can run. Sadly, I completely forgot to test the effects of ranged units more thoroughly. And what to say about the after-battle exhausted units speed? I am quite certain, that I could not run faster after fighting and wearing an armour so OK for me.

All in all, I am quite certain, that I will play with this setting no matter if it will be incorporated in 1.2 version or not. Especially Pack no. 1 and 3, as you suggested, are great combination which really enriched my enjoyment of battles and to contradict your fears, all of my battles lasted around 10-13 minutes, depending on the factions selected. So I dont think, that these settings prolong the battles in significant manner - the slower units are counterbalanced by closer deployment zones, since the initial maneuvering in former battle settings lasted quite long. Moreover, in spite of the fact, that deployment zones are less stretched, it is really evident that AI can create visible flanks (with space between main line). That is welcomed change in contrary to single-line madness and looks really realistic

[Dresden]

Usually KAM's experimental packs get incorporated on some level into the next major update (1.2). They at least serve as a great way to get feedback and testing on them. So, thanks for helping out and giving your detailed feedback!

[KAM 2150]

Yes, that feedback is wonderfull

Mostly I add certain stuff from the experimental packs, since like the names tells, they are used for experiments to check things out

Increased disband ratio will not be in full release anyway due to providing crashes after 1.1 release (the description of the pack even says for who this pack is made), as for the rest I am reluctant. Might be too big of a change for most people.

[Affe]

Is it possible to have the experimental deployment zone only work for open field battles and not for ambushes and such? (My guess is, it's probably not..)

Because, while I didn't manage to get a open battle during the few turns of my campaign, it fought an ambush and the deployment zones definitely felt a bit too close.
It was still doable though, so it would just be a minor inconvenience.

Also I'm not sure, whether it affects fortified battles as well, might just have been my imagination..

I will try to get you some real feedback, as soon as I play more, but so far I'm really liking the speed changes.

[KAM 2150]

Is it possible to have the experimental deployment zone only work for open field battles and not for ambushes and such? (My guess is, it's probably not..)

Because, while I didn't manage to get a open battle during the few turns of my campaign, it fought an ambush and the deployment zones definitely felt a bit too close.
It was still doable though, so it would just be a minor inconvenience.

Also I'm not sure, whether it affects fortified battles as well, might just have been my imagination..

I will try to get you some real feedback, as soon as I play more, but so far I'm really liking the speed changes.

Deployment zones provide a lot of RAAAGGGEEEE when I work on them, but I will look more into it. Dunno how regular deployment works for ambushes though. At one failed atempt on redoing regular field battles I was able to spawn both armies at the same spot xD That was fun ;P

I would say that current deployment zones are at 0.00001 early alpha version ; P

[FlashHeart07]

Deployment zones provide a lot of RAAAGGGEEEE when I work on them, but I will look more into it. Dunno how regular deployment works for ambushes though. At one failed atempt on redoing regular field battles I was able to spawn both armies at the same spot xD That was fun ;P

I would say that current deployment zones are at 0.00001 early alpha version ; P

But are you not just working on the deployment zone we already got? You just need to change the X and Y coordinates.

[Babajan]

Where do the down loaded files go?

Does their location in mod manager matter?

[FlashHeart07]

They just need to load before Divide et Impera. And Im guessing that KAM already made sure of that by naming his mods correctly As long as the files are named correctly (and we assume that is the case) their location in the steam mod manager doesnt matter as that is how you would control the load order anyway.

[Babajan]

Thanks. Where do I put the files?