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Thread: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

  1. #41

    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    I saw in this website some armour and weapons it might be usefull
    http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Elven_Weapons_and_Armour

  2. #42

    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro1 View Post
    Imladris just doesn't have those units just in silver or gold. So they won't be there, no matter what people considered. They might prove wrong, and in this case they are


    I don't understand why you could say that Imladris is supposed to have spearmen and swordsmen based on a lindon picture. It's like giving a picture of goblins and then ask 'hey, why are they not in Mordor roster?' X)
    The comparison with Gondor doesn't go, since Gondor was seen with such units.
    I remember you that Imladris spearmans are already included in the roster, I've not suggested them, I suggested only 2 sword units that we can see in the pictures of the movie. We haven't certain guidelines and differences between Lindon and Imladris soldiers, nobody can say with total security that the pictures contain Lindon or Imladris warriors, or both. So, I hope to find very similar units also in the Lindon roster. In the movie "The Hobbit" we can see silver armours for Imladris, we can suppose that the colour was changed during ages, and it's ok, I agree on the colour choice, it distinguishes Imladris from Lindon. But all you have said does not justify the absence of heavy sword units for Imladris, certainly, I believe, less strange of the presence of "noldorian rangers" with Lothlorien armours. This is just my opinion, thanks for the attention and kind regards.

  3. #43

    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    To all the questions about "why are there no hvy swordsmen for Imladris", allow me to explain why:

    #1 it is important to remember that Imladris was literaly elronds house, like 1 dudes house were he and his lords/pznts lived. It was not a kingdom or serious population, this is why they cannot recruit until the regain their "kingdom", it is also why they depend on heroes and lack sturdy line infantry because they dont have the population for a standing army.

    #2 the guys in the prologue for FOTR were an army from Lindon not Imladris, it was lead by Gil-Galad not by elrond and that army either left for the west or returned to Mithlond (which is y they are in lindon roster)

    #3 Adding these units would imbalance imladris as a faction giving them esssentialy: The best cavalry in the game (calim et avathar) the best archers (noldorian archers) the best rangers (noldorian rangers) the best horse archers (noble rangers) the best pikemen (aranduri) and to culminate it all...the best infantry. Imladris needs to have some weakness, this is the most balanced way.

    Discussion closed on this issue.

    Also, these rosters are not final and are subject to change,
    Also, as to dunedain merks for imladris, we are considering it, not sure about it yet.

    -cshewey

  4. #44
    Celebon21's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    You guys are being very harsh about this issue. There's no fact being discussed here so I'm not sure why everyone is being so confrontational about the infantry topic. In my opinion, they should have some type of armored two handed swordsman. Just put a unit cap on them, so you couldn't load up, but you'd still have something. If you're going to say they are all in Lindon, couldn't you also say that there would be leftovers in Eregion?

    And aren't those pikes in just one unit...? How is that the best pike infantry if you can only have one? Maybe I misunderstood, but if that is true, that argument is... Well...

    Lastly, the unit cards look amazing and I can't wait to see the models. The campaign looks soooooo awesome. One problem in the last paragraph, "their" should be "there."

  5. #45
    Mr.Jox's Avatar WHY SO SERIOUS?!
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    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    I wouldn't call the discussion here a confrontation. Believe me, the roster team reads what you write here and deeply thinks and discusses about it.
    Last edited by Mr.Jox; February 26, 2016 at 12:56 PM.

  6. #46

    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    Quote Originally Posted by Celebon21 View Post
    You guys are being very harsh about this issue. There's no fact being discussed here so I'm not sure why everyone is being so confrontational about the infantry topic. In my opinion, they should have some type of armored two handed swordsman. Just put a unit cap on them, so you couldn't load up, but you'd still have something. If you're going to say they are all in Lindon, couldn't you also say that there would be leftovers in Eregion?

    And aren't those pikes in just one unit...? How is that the best pike infantry if you can only have one? Maybe I misunderstood, but if that is true, that argument is... Well...

    Lastly, the unit cards look amazing and I can't wait to see the models. The campaign looks soooooo awesome. One problem in the last paragraph, "their" should be "there."

    We are currently discussing possible revisions to Imladris Roster, to be clear, all these are still very subject to change, this is what we have ATM not what it will be finally.
    As for the pike infantry, statistically they are the best (highest armor, damage etc of all pikes) as far as the value and quantity no prob not as you can only get 1. Pro isengard pikes will be the "best" pikemen, but Aranduri will have far superior stats. Make sense?

    As to the swords, i am currently drafting Colindoli va Nainie (Bearers of Sorrow) a two handed sword unit for Imladris, but we have not decided yet whether or not to implement them into the game.

    Also to the idea that Imaldris doesnt have any shleids, well yeah they dont, but they will prob win the missile fight every time, plus they all have very good armor. Anyway they will be a tough faction, but again this is all subject to change. Feel free to post any further comments or ideas.

  7. #47

    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    I hope to find in the Imladris roster this modificacions:
    1) The presence of a heavy melee unit with two handed sword (the most important)
    2) The presence of a heavy melee unit with sword and shield (I hope, but if you want to reserve this unit only for Lindon could be acceptable)
    3) Aranduri armed with spears, and not with pikes, (and so you delete also the problem of the best pikemans of the game). Please, this unit with shields.
    4) I would delete the unit Telcontari
    5) Már-liyúmë i anda ehtë with rudimental shields
    Kind regards

  8. #48

    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    Quote Originally Posted by Drag0 View Post
    I hope to find in the Imladris roster this modificacions:
    1) The presence of a heavy melee unit with two handed sword (the most important)
    2) The presence of a heavy melee unit with sword and shield (I hope, but if you want to reserve this unit only for Lindon could be acceptable)
    3) Aranduri armed with spears, and not with pikes, (and so you delete also the problem of the best pikemans of the game). Please, this unit with shields.
    4) I would delete the unit Telcontari
    5) Már-liyúmë i anda ehtë with rudimental shields
    Kind regards

    Thanks for the input, could you please tell me why we should do it, (besides just to add hvy infantry)? Opinions are welcome but if you explain a little more it will help us with our discussions. Because as we see it now, adding hvy inf to imladris will make them an overpowered faction, also it destroyes the vision we ahve for imladris, as an expert ambush faction, and seige faction.

    So please explain why...

    thanks.

  9. #49

    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    Ok, I try to explain you why.
    1 and 2) Because I think that these units are very representative of elven armies, like we have seen in the movies, also other users want melee infantry units with sword, not just me. The roster would be more completed.
    3) Simply because in the movie we not see elven pikemen, but spearmen. Also in the Hobbit we can observe 2 Imladris guards on the top of the stairs armed with spears. Shields simply because I imagine this unit like a defensive unit, would be good to create a defensive shield wall. You can arm Mithlond's sentinels with pikes (Lindon).
    4) Because we have already a lot of archers in this roster, I think that Telcontari are unnecessaries. We have already Heruin va Luva like heavy missile infantry. And I would reserve this armour style for Lothlorien.
    5) Shields with this unit for the same reason of the point 3. I think at this unit like a more defensive and versatile unit.

    I explain in this way my points, I know that Imladris would be a small faction and not a superpower. But I think that we have already very hard initial conditions for this faction, not only for the enemies, that would have very strong rosters with trolls and other beasts, but already for the recruit system. I think that in this way you not have a superpower, but you give the possibility to have a more complete faction for all players that will choice this faction and once passed the hard start could aspire to expand the faction in all the map.
    Kind regards

  10. #50

    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    Quote Originally Posted by Drag0 View Post
    Ok, I try to explain you why.
    1 and 2) Because I think that these units are very representative of elven armies, like we have seen in the movies, also other users want melee infantry units with sword, not just me. The roster would be more completed.
    3) Simply because in the movie we not see elven pikemen, but spearmen. Also in the Hobbit we can observe 2 Imladris guards on the top of the stairs armed with spears. Shields simply because I imagine this unit like a defensive unit, would be good to create a defensive shield wall. You can arm Mithlond's sentinels with pikes (Lindon).
    4) Because we have already a lot of archers in this roster, I think that Telcontari are unnecessaries. We have already Heruin va Luva like heavy missile infantry. And I would reserve this armour style for Lothlorien.
    5) Shields with this unit for the same reason of the point 3. I think at this unit like a more defensive and versatile unit.

    I explain in this way my points, I know that Imladris would be a small faction and not a superpower. But I think that we have already very hard initial conditions for this faction, not only for the enemies, that would have very strong rosters with trolls and other beasts, but already for the recruit system. I think that in this way you not have a superpower, but you give the possibility to have a more complete faction for all players that will choice this faction and once passed the hard start could aspire to expand the faction in all the map.
    Kind regards
    Thanks,
    Will consider.

  11. #51
    Alkar's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    I hope Imladris will have severe unit caps but really experienced troops. Also, a very hidden and easy to defend location, defended as well by many buffer factions. If possible, a way to incorporate the wisdom and magical power of such exclusively powerful Elves such as Glorfindel and Elrond. Glorfindel especially and Elrond as well should be their greatest assets. Tell me what you think.

    Of the Lore of Middle-earth: Click Here and Here

  12. #52
    Maestro1's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkar View Post
    I hope Imladris will have severe unit caps but really experienced troops. Also, a very hidden and easy to defend location, defended as well by many buffer factions. If possible, a way to incorporate the wisdom and magical power of such exclusively powerful Elves such as Glorfindel and Elrond. Glorfindel especially and Elrond as well should be their greatest assets. Tell me what you think.
    Alkar remember my request in pm?

  13. #53
    Alkar's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro1 View Post
    Alkar remember my request in pm?
    Oh, thanks for reminding me. I'll get to work on it today.

    Of the Lore of Middle-earth: Click Here and Here

  14. #54

    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkar View Post
    I hope Imladris will have severe unit caps but really experienced troops. Also, a very hidden and easy to defend location, defended as well by many buffer factions. If possible, a way to incorporate the wisdom and magical power of such exclusively powerful Elves such as Glorfindel and Elrond. Glorfindel especially and Elrond as well should be their greatest assets. Tell me what you think.

    Alkar, that is the case, unit caps, location and gorfindel/elrond

  15. #55
    Celebon21's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    Quote Originally Posted by Drag0 View Post
    Ok, I try to explain you why.
    1 and 2) Because I think that these units are very representative of elven armies, like we have seen in the movies, also other users want melee infantry units with sword, not just me. The roster would be more completed.
    3) Simply because in the movie we not see elven pikemen, but spearmen. Also in the Hobbit we can observe 2 Imladris guards on the top of the stairs armed with spears. Shields simply because I imagine this unit like a defensive unit, would be good to create a defensive shield wall. You can arm Mithlond's sentinels with pikes (Lindon).
    4) Because we have already a lot of archers in this roster, I think that Telcontari are unnecessaries. We have already Heruin va Luva like heavy missile infantry. And I would reserve this armour style for Lothlorien.
    5) Shields with this unit for the same reason of the point 3. I think at this unit like a more defensive and versatile unit.

    I explain in this way my points, I know that Imladris would be a small faction and not a superpower. But I think that we have already very hard initial conditions for this faction, not only for the enemies, that would have very strong rosters with trolls and other beasts, but already for the recruit system. I think that in this way you not have a superpower, but you give the possibility to have a more complete faction for all players that will choice this faction and once passed the hard start could aspire to expand the faction in all the map.
    Kind regards

    This is very solid.

    Mods, can you guys explain why pikes are always given to the elves in these games? Is it written in the books that they use pikes? I see a lot of fan art with the Grey Havens having pike guards, but other than that I cannot remember them having pikes. Also, every time Elrond is shown in the movies, he is armed with a sword and surrounded by swordsmen... or on horseback. Oh yeah, and for some reason Peter Jackson always arms besieging forces with huge pikes so the Woodland Realm forces were given pikes. which makes zero sense from a warfare logic perspective. What are you going to do with an Alexander the Great like pike on top of a fortress wall? You will die. Anyway, I was just wondering where that comes from.

    best wishes and keep up the good work

  16. #56
    Alkar's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    Quote Originally Posted by Celebon21 View Post
    This is very solid.

    Mods, can you guys explain why pikes are always given to the elves in these games? Is it written in the books that they use pikes? I see a lot of fan art with the Grey Havens having pike guards, but other than that I cannot remember them having pikes. Also, every time Elrond is shown in the movies, he is armed with a sword and surrounded by swordsmen... or on horseback. Oh yeah, and for some reason Peter Jackson always arms besieging forces with huge pikes so the Woodland Realm forces were given pikes. which makes zero sense from a warfare logic perspective. What are you going to do with an Alexander the Great like pike on top of a fortress wall? You will die. Anyway, I was just wondering where that comes from.

    best wishes and keep up the good work
    Pikes are never mentioned but a bill is mentioned in the lore for Elves (similar to a pike). That's only mentioned once though and in a very early text, whereas spears and swords are mentioned everywhere in both the latest and earliest texts.

    Of the Lore of Middle-earth: Click Here and Here

  17. #57

    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    Love this faction concept! I like the idea of Imladris having so few melee units; the most interesting factions are always those that have some major limitation on their recruitment. Save the doom army of swordsmen for Lindon.

    Also, the unit cards are great! Very cool looking.

  18. #58

    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    Quote Originally Posted by Celebon21 View Post
    This is very solid.

    Mods, can you guys explain why pikes are always given to the elves in these games? Is it written in the books that they use pikes? I see a lot of fan art with the Grey Havens having pike guards, but other than that I cannot remember them having pikes. Also, every time Elrond is shown in the movies, he is armed with a sword and surrounded by swordsmen... or on horseback. Oh yeah, and for some reason Peter Jackson always arms besieging forces with huge pikes so the Woodland Realm forces were given pikes. which makes zero sense from a warfare logic perspective. What are you going to do with an Alexander the Great like pike on top of a fortress wall? You will die. Anyway, I was just wondering where that comes from.

    best wishes and keep up the good work
    I agree with you. In effects the only unit with pikes in the entire Middle Earth would be Uruk-Hai pikemen.
    Kind regards

  19. #59

    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    Quote Originally Posted by cshewey View Post
    Thanks,
    Will consider.
    Thank you so much
    Kind regards and good work

  20. #60
    Maetharin's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: [UPD 20 FEB 16] Preview: Elves of Imladris

    I have some ideas regarding both units and their balance.

    I´m absolutely for Imladris only having a small roster, they were a small number of elves after all.

    I´m also heavily in favour of Imladris having both the Spear & Shield and Sword units from the movie.
    I imagine them as being the crack melee unit of their roles respectively, defense and offense.
    They´d be the last of these units from the last alliance who live in Imladris.
    Balancewise they should be heavily capped.

    Since Imladris doesn´t have the numbers to field a national army, I propose the other units all being able to work as "line units",
    every unit should be able to at least hold against most other line unit. There should be exceptions of course,
    like pikes, which should do serious damage to unarmoured units.

    What are your thoughts?

    Best regards
    "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse!"

    Marcus Porcius Cato Censorius

    "I concur!"

    ​Me

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