Funding through lending

[Maetharin]

Hey guys!

Would it be possible to introduce money lending as a concept into the game?
Borrowing money was very common during ancient times, statemen did it, kings did it, everyone did it.

Athens had to borrow absurd amounts of money to stay afloat during the Pelopponesian war.
Rome had to borrow money to continue her first war against Carthage.

In the game, you have a finite amount of money, your income and payments from other factions.
If your income drops below nill, and your treasury is empty, you can´t recruit any units.

But in times of crisis, most states borrowed from their own citizens, dedicated banking institutes or even temples.
How would they pay their mercenaries if there was no money? Or for the upkeep of their fleet? Not to mention supplies!

I´d really like to see sth. like this in the game, could you guys please be as brilliant as usual and just do it?
Just kidding, I hope to have given you something to think about.

Best regards

[mrhappyx666x]

Well, I guess its not much of a stretch to say that edicts like Total War, Noble Philanthropy and even Tax Harvesting can be said to fill in for this. Atleast as far as borrowing from citizens. I always wished you could borrow money through diplomacy the way you can in the the Civilization games but I'm sure its another limit of the games engine/ diplomacy.

[Aethyr]

I just borrow money from provinces in conquer...by sacking them. Pretty sure this stuff is hard coded, unless you had some sort of mod that edited the way diplomacy and 'give/demand gold' works, but then it would be up to the player not to abuse it.

[sasquatch32794]

I've been thinking of this very topic. What if the player started with something like 110k of money. 100k would be considered your 0 and everything below 100k would be considered debt. For example if your money read 60k you would actually be in 40k of debt. Then there would be a script that would charge 5% of 40k and add that to your expenditures.

[JCB206]

I've been thinking of this very topic. What if the player started with something like 110k of money. 100k would be considered your 0 and everything below 100k would be considered debt. For example if your money read 60k you would actually be in 40k of debt. Then there would be a script that would charge 5% of 40k and add that to your expenditures.

Neat idea. What happens when you hit the actual zero? You would be $100k in debt paying 5%. Would this pretty much be game over?

[Com_James_Bond]

Neat idea. What happens when you hit the actual zero? You would be $100k in debt paying 5%. Would this pretty much be game over?

Yes, the game should be over then, I would say. Maybe it would also be possible to show your actual money minus $100k in the game.

[sasquatch32794]

Yes, the game should be over then, I would say. Maybe it would also be possible to show your actual money minus $100k in the game.

I don't think the game would just have to end but just get alot harder. I think it would be that your units would start to disband due to them not receiving pay and public order would get bad as government is suddenly not able to provide the services it was providing.

[Maetharin]

the AI wouldn´t be able to handle it I think, but it´s a neat idea^^

[JCB206]

I gotcha. So hitting zero would be much like zero in current game just ALOT harder to fix things. Maybe even make were your credit stops until you hit the negative -$80k mark. Thanks

[Com_James_Bond]

To the DeI-team: Could you tell us, if this proposal here is possible?

[FlashHeart07]

I dont see the point in this system? What would it add to the game that would make it worth trying to mod?
And you cannot mod diplomacy so that option is excluded already.

[sasquatch32794]

I dont see the point in this system? What would it add to the game that would make it worth trying to mod?
And you cannot mod diplomacy so that option is excluded already.

It is not very hard to see what a good debt system would add. First it would add immersion. Debt played a huge role in the ancient world. Both Rome and Greece had a very active banking system. Ceasar was reported to have been in an immense amount of debt due to waging war against the Gauls and Pompey.

Second it would add more game play options. Say you are in a war and need a couple extra stacks to win or are just trying to be overly aggressive, or are just trying to invest in your infrastructure with a lot of money. Well with the debt system I proposed you could do that at your own risk. It would make a game play decision of having to balance deficit spending and not letting your debt go spiraling out of control into defaulting and receiving huge penalties.

[philler]

Ceasar was reported to have been in an immense amount of debt due to waging war against the Gauls and Pompey.

Thats not entirely correct.. Caesar was in debt before the war in Gaul, where he accumulated immense wealth. It was partly because of his debts he engaged in the war here.

[FlashHeart07]

So basically, gamewise, it would add to the challenge of going bankrupt.
So you need to mod the starting treasury which shouldnt be that difficult.
Then you need to add increasing penalties for any values below, say 100k.
As you hit -100k and thereby bankrupcy you should be given the option to take a loan with the cost of further penalties.
AFAIK, we cannot add new buttons offering new options in game so you would have to edit an already excisting one. Perhaps the dilemma options, though I havent checked how the triggers for them work. IMO the biggest problem will be to add increasing penalties as you go into debt. Scripting could perhaps do this but the question is how many scripts we want to add to the mod considering how script heavy it already is and will become in the future (Manpower feature)

If we can avoid scripting and keep it to db editing it wouldnt be a problem adding it to the game and wouldnt hit performance.