AI Blobbing: What causes it?

**McCarronXLD** · February 16, 2016, 08:46 PM

I'm not sure if this is a DeI specific problem or not (pretty sure it isn't, but DeI -is- Rome 2 for me so I'm just gonna vent here!

) but it just really kills my motivation to play Rome 2. Why must the AI do this?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Doesn't matter how long or short I make my line the AI will always pile every single melee unit it has into the closest unit for a massive zombie dog pile. Any missile units it has usually get thrown into the dog pile at the back and take pot shots whenever their line of sight isn't blocked. I don't want the AI to flank me. I don't want the AI to be super smart and try to out position me. I just want it to keep stable lines, reserves, and meet me man for man like a realistic classical army would, not try to zerg through my center with every single unit it has.

Edit: For clarification purposes there are 10 enemy Hoplites in that dog pile. It was a 10 v 10 test battle. I tried positioning my units in all sorts of ways to make the AI not zerg the center. All failed.

**TFCAliarcy** · February 16, 2016, 09:33 PM

Welcome to Total War Rome 2!

**TheRazaman** · February 16, 2016, 09:37 PM

Tragically, this is simply the game and battle AI is unmoddable. I feel your frustration. Almost every battle is a case of "a stone stealing my glory"

**zonks40** · February 16, 2016, 11:59 PM

It's a shame really that we can create all manner of colourful cultures, yet when we come to battle the Romans fight in the same fashion as barbarians and any other AI controlled faction, I think it's disgusting and very lazy of CA, which is why I play primarily Head to head.

In that screenshot above, even though 80% of the soldiers are not in combat, the entire blob will become fatigued, and will not react to any flanking at all.

**KAM 2150** · February 17, 2016, 01:08 AM

Yeah, the thing is the most visible when you play against Romans and Greeks and for some odd reason almost does not happen or at least not to that extent with barbarians. I will try to work on initial AI deployment as I think that one is moddable so maybe it will help a bit.

Also in campaign, AI seems to be a bit better in battles.

**Phalangitis** · February 22, 2016, 04:02 AM

Originally Posted by KAM 2150

Yeah, the thing is the most visible when you play against Romans and Greeks and for some odd reason almost does not happen or at least not to that extent with barbarians. I will try to work on initial AI deployment as I think that one is moddable so maybe it will help a bit.

Also in campaign, AI seems to be a bit better in battles.

ΚΑΜ i faced the same problem initially in Hellenica. I tried everything from making custom formation to only allowing specific formations to Ai and human. No solution. The solution surprized me and i didn't expect it. We assigned all hoplitic units to be considered as pike units in unit class table. This table if i remember correctly (it been some time now) does not affect unit abilities or attributes. Only the sign over the fighting unit in battle map (a bow sign or a soear or a sword etc). With this change for some strange reason blobbing stopped and units were approaching in order. The only downside is that sometimes when you click on a unit no matter if the Vo tables in land_units is changed there is a small chnce to hear the voice "pike men ready"
.. BUT i can live with that..

I dont know if that solution will be good for you guys though, since Helenistic times got many unit types and i dont know how you will get over the symbol or voice problem but you can test yourself..
P.S if i find those pics will post them here.

**philler** · February 23, 2016, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by Phalangitis

ΚΑΜ i faced the same problem initially in Hellenica. I tried everything from making custom formation to only allowing specific formations to Ai and human. No solution. The solution surprized me and i didn't expect it. We assigned all hoplitic units to be considered as pike units in unit class table. This table if i remember correctly (it been some time now) does not affect unit abilities or attributes. Only the sign over the fighting unit in battle map (a bow sign or a soear or a sword etc). With this change for some strange reason blobbing stopped and units were approaching in order. The only downside is that sometimes when you click on a unit no matter if the Vo tables in land_units is changed there is a small chnce to hear the voice "pike men ready"
.. BUT i can live with that..

I dont know if that solution will be good for you guys though, since Helenistic times got many unit types and i dont know how you will get over the symbol or voice problem but you can test yourself..
P.S if i find those pics will post them here.

Would be interesting if someone had tried to figure out this..AI units blobing is the main thing, why are battles against AI so easy, since it is almost guaranteed you can outflank your enemy every time.

**z3n** · March 18, 2016, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by Phalangitis

ΚΑΜ i faced the same problem initially in Hellenica. I tried everything from making custom formation to only allowing specific formations to Ai and human. No solution. The solution surprized me and i didn't expect it. We assigned all hoplitic units to be considered as pike units in unit class table. This table if i remember correctly (it been some time now) does not affect unit abilities or attributes. Only the sign over the fighting unit in battle map (a bow sign or a soear or a sword etc). With this change for some strange reason blobbing stopped and units were approaching in order. The only downside is that sometimes when you click on a unit no matter if the Vo tables in land_units is changed there is a small chnce to hear the voice "pike men ready"
.. BUT i can live with that..

I dont know if that solution will be good for you guys though, since Helenistic times got many unit types and i dont know how you will get over the symbol or voice problem but you can test yourself..
P.S if i find those pics will post them here.

As far as I understand it the BAI reads data and changes how it reacts accordingly even in old total war games, for example the unit attributes in MTW2 or flags in descr projectile which tells it what to do with which units. Fortunately I have not encountered any of the blobbing myself as of yet but this may be a possible reason as to why that may have affected it in your game to a degree, the AI in general is rather complicated so it is no surprise these things happen unfortunately.

About the mod, the fact that a small unimpressive faction like the Odrysian Kingdom is so polished (and solid research in regards to the units) it says a lot about how much work thus far has gone into this mod.

**McCarronXLD** · February 17, 2016, 02:01 AM

Thanks for the input KAM

Looking forward to seeing how that turns out.

**loony** · February 17, 2016, 03:09 AM

Yesterday i played CIG campaign and the AI was adequate.
It is, of course still possible to encircle it, however, it attacks along the whole line, keeps the skirmishers behind, tries to flank with cavalry.

It is still very much retarded (2.5vs1 odds, AI has 8 slinger advantage... charges spears with cavalry.... ), but didn't seem as stupid as shown by OP.

**Hoplite of Ilis** · February 18, 2016, 08:01 AM

McCarronXLD This is not DEI specific... It's CA STANDARD! Yes, you need to appreciate the fine thef... craftsmanship of the AI! Let this be a life-lesson to you: never pay up front, because the job is never done

**KAM 2150** · February 22, 2016, 04:08 AM

Damn, I would never approach it from that side, thanks man

Have you tried it with other unit types so for example sword units are considered as spear unit etc? Like I wrote, blobbing is less problematic with barb factions so it might be something lingering there

**Phalangitis** · February 22, 2016, 05:06 AM

No because in our time frame we dont have that much variation in unit types. Just hoplites, skirmishers and some light cavalry and very ferw irregular spears in gereal

**Hoplite of Ilis** · February 22, 2016, 08:10 AM

I can't imagine what you people would do if the game was ok in the first place.... Nothing less than miracles I suppose.

**ostendadler** · March 16, 2016, 01:21 AM

that's an interesting fix

**leonardusius** · March 18, 2016, 07:50 AM

I can't imagine why peoples are so ignorant ! Thousands of times I've read about so-called negative aspect of battles, the ''blobbings'', but a very few knows history and/or real war era engagements. Blobbing soldiers WAS a fact in the ancient and medieval battles with the rigor exceptions (highly trained troops, pre-planed tactics, etc). of course we can't speak about blobbing for the romans for example, but for the majority of the barbarians, blobbings was the ''method'' of war.

**Maetharin** · March 18, 2016, 09:32 AM

Well at Cannae blobbing did happen on the Roman side^^

**leonardusius** · March 18, 2016, 12:22 PM

Yes, yes sir ! Absolutely exact. A perfect exception even for the modern disciplined professional army of the romans (eh, there were some hastily raised legions, but not all).

**ostendadler** · March 18, 2016, 03:57 PM

well the AI is using its phalanx pikemen without blobbing. I just got my ass kicked by a well organised AI. Past the initial phase of battle and once battle lines start to falter things get messy.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: