Research Thread: Cumans/Kipchaks and Volga Bulgars

**Tuskin** · February 14, 2016, 10:00 PM

The Cumans and Kipchaks were two large Turkic tribes that formed a confederation and ruled the lands in modern day southern Ukraine, Russia and parts of Kazakhstan. This state was referred to as Cumania by western sources. After the Mongol invasions, many Cumans either joined the Mongol forces or they fled into Hungary and other areas along the lower Danube.

The Volga Bulgaria was a semi nomadic nation centered around the city of Bolghar. Unlike their southern neighbors, the Volga Bulgars converted to Islam. They heavily relied on trade along the Volga. However due to Russian raids on their western border, the Volga Bulgars moved their capital to the trading city of Bilar. In 1212 AD, Volga Bulgaria was ruled by Ghabdula Chelbir. He famously defeated the Mongols at the Battle of Samara Bend in 1223 AD.

Pictures:

Battle of Samara Bend

Volga Bulgar and Kipchak warriors

Cuman and Kipchak warriors

Kipchak Cavalryman

**FrozenmenSS** · February 15, 2016, 01:47 AM

Is it now for each faction to have its own Research thread when there is 1 united 1 for all factions for the mod team? Because I can easily Copy paste my Huge post for Volga Bulgaria in this one.

**Ltd.** · February 15, 2016, 06:20 AM

It can´t hurt to have them pasted in here, just to make sure it can be found easily once we get to create them a roster, so yes, go ahead and paste it in here, please.

**Visarion** · February 15, 2016, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Tuskin

The Cumans and Kipchaks were two large Turkic tribes that formed a confederation and ruled the lands in modern day southern Ukraine, Russia and parts of Kazakhstan. This state was referred to as Cumania by western sources. After the Mongol invasions, many Cumans either joined the Mongol forces or they fled into Hungary and other areas along the lower Danube.

The Volga Bulgaria was a semi nomadic nation centered around the city of Bolghar. Unlike their southern neighbors, the Volga Bulgars converted to Islam. They heavily relied on trade along the Volga. However due to Russian raids on their western border, the Volga Bulgars moved their capital to the trading city of Bilar. In 1212 AD, Volga Bulgaria was ruled by Ghabdula Chelbir. He famously defeated the Mongols at the Battle of Samara Bend in 1223 AD.

Guess that's what made the Mongols yo west huh!? You know 1241-1243 when they devastated Hungary... well the Wallachian states as well... hope that this will be scripted... it would reduce higly the progress of factions, especially Hungary and give a chance to the suurounding ones to develop as well... some reforms should be added to Hungary... More federalized states... more autonomy and local armies made from local troops... autonomous, dependencies having a larger autonomy, increasing their options for recruitment, building tree, techs etc including stibe castles... perhaps a raise of funds from the Hungarians or larger suns for themselves in the detriment of their masters... if possible... it would be smth... scripted stuff even... I see Hungary as the Parthian Empire of Rome 2 and Sassanid one of Attila... it would be nice if it would be represented as such... of course with the option of dependent dtates to riot... and becone empires like Wallachia, Moldavia, Bosnia, Croatia, Ragusa, Naples for instance... especially Serbia... Slovakia was kind of included in the Kingdom of Hungary, later Bohemia, Transylvania was a very loyal autonomous land and so was the land of the Saxons and Szeklers... so it shoukd be a very peacefull place especially because Transylvania gave Mathias Corvin... less riots and stuff... anyway at first Burzenland could be a faction... a dependancy because it acted as such... The first autonomy evere was given to the land of the Saxons... well Hospitallers kind of had the privilleges of a faction as well... the problem is the starting date with the Teutones and stuff... perhaps replacing them with the Hospitallers... or a scripted way to expell them and making them enemies... their starting position should be Transylvania but I don't know... perhaps teo starting positions... and a scripted invasion of the Hungarians... or why not as I said before a Saxon town in Transylvania... if not a separate faction than the one in HRE having a city here!? Mmm nope... Saxon units and so on for both Hungary and Wallachia... well Bulgaria as welll but as Wallachia will ve a dependancy at start I hope they could come with the Cuman and Saxon troops for aidibg the Bulgarians.... in it's territory it would be also cool if 2 dactions could unite under the same king as was the case of Hungary an Poland during the Balkanic Crusades or maybe during Crusades someone becoming the leader of a mixed army... having acces to all kind of troops during a Crusade or scripted receiving French, Hospitaller, German, Polish and other kind of volunteers... that would be awesome... with their general of course or being able to hire the Company of Catalans of Nvarrese as the Byzantines.... hmmm naybe I shoul have posted this elsewhere bu the ideas just continued to poure... another thing that should be represented the diminished population of Hungary and invitatiin to other pepople to settle the devastated lands like the Germans... tge influx of Cumans and Jassy... new units

A military reform... the birth of heavy troops especially knight... perhaps unlocked after the influx of German, Cuman and Jassy people... Pechenegs too... anyway it would be accurate... sime conditiins ti change to heavy unuts... Serbians also made use of heavy German Knights during Dusan s reign... spaniards as infantry and cuman and hungaryan light horse cav... later replaced by the serbian hussars... btw the Serbians are poorly represented... Germans, Spaniards and the long waited Hussars should be added...

Anyway conditions do that Hungary becomes prepared for the next waves of the Mongol and Tartar invadions

Yup this is a mess... i must edit and post elsewhere these ideas when time...

**+Marius+** · February 15, 2016, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Visarion

Guess that's what made the Mongols yo west huh!?

Nah, they came back and wiped the Volga Bulgars off the map.

**Visarion** · February 15, 2016, 04:35 PM

Ohhhh nastyy

**FrozenmenSS** · February 15, 2016, 06:17 PM

Hi guys - after the latest crash from the Forum, I have to rewrite the old post for Volga Bulgaria. This Time I will try to remember what I wrote and post it again in this thread.So sorry If Im missing some text from the old post.

Russian Documentary with Russian Audio with some CGI for Volga Bulgaria

Armies of the Volga Bulgars& Khanate of Kazan9th–16th Centuries
http://www.brego-weard.com/lib/MAA_491.pdf

Here are the paintings of the Female warriors from Volga Bulgaria made by Bulat Gilvanov,who is born in Volga Bulgaria, modern Tatarstan,Russia

Historical Info About the Female Warriors in the 12-13th Century for Volga Bulgaria.

The Legend of Princess Altynchech of Volga Bulgaria is a bit murky because over the last 800 years is filled with Legendary and Mythological Stuff about her and I will try as much to post what is confirmed about Her. Now She was the most known Woman warrior of Sunni Islamic Volga Bulgaria,but she wasnt the only 1.There were others also were like her.It was also Common in that Time the Women to be even Governing local regions in Volga Bulgaria and with the Cummans the Women still practiced the old Scytian,Sarmatian traditions about women going to war. Only after going back from War the women of Volga Bulgaria and the Cummans could marry and have a family. Also in the Siege of the capital of Volga Bulgaria Bilär - the last stronghold - the Hightest Tower in the city was held for 40 women for 3 days against the Mongol invaders.

From What Im reading from academic Russian sources the Historians from Tatarstan She was like Joan of Arc for France but for Volga Bulgaria. Altynchech means ''The Golden-haired''.She was a Bulgarian princess, who lived in the late 12th century and early 13th century in the Volga Bulgaria, the daughter of the Volga Bulgarian ruler Jelal-ed-Din Altanbek Allen.Her father Died in 1236ad.Her Husband Bachman (Dont know if I wrote it right because I was listening an Audio Interview) was a Volga Bulgarian Noble who had blood line with the Cummans.She was active Bulgarian participant in the Mongol invasions of Volga Bulgaria. She commanded the elite Bulgarian 15 000 Guards Corps - men and women in battle. In the Siege of Bilär in 1236 only her Elite warriors broke out of the Siege of the 250 000 big city( who was doomed to be razed to the Ground) and escaped to Bandja(the city was just around Modern Samara in the local woods).Her Father - the Ruler of Volga Bulgaria Died in the Siege of Bilär.Bandja was then besieged from the Mongols and her Forces broke out again,but her Husband died in the Battle.After the Battle she escaped to the Ural mountains to the East and from here her historically confirmed goes into the Local Myths. In the Legends for Her she was wounded and with the Help of other Bulgarian Nobles she was hiding from the Mongols.The Legends of Volga Bulgarians today says that She was hiding somewhere in the Ural caves,from where she will always keep the Bulgarian land and Bulgarian people safe.

In the 18th century, another Volga Bulgarian women, Jamila - a poet wrote the poem Altanchach-Intent and keep the memory of the Bulgarian princess warrior.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Another thing - the History of Volga Bulgaria until 1989-91 was Highly neglected by the Communist party in the USSR and on purpose and there was no funding about excavations in for Volga Bulgaria. Until the Fall of the Russian Empire in 1917 the region was always known as Volga Bulgaria,but in the Russian Civil War the Volga Bulgars created their own state for a Short time ,before the Red Army overran them. Later Lenin Renamed the newly formed Republic to Tatarstan. Nowadays 1 of the big local Parties wants to Rename from the Republic of Tatarstan to Bulgaristan. Even in the Fall of the USSR Tatarstan tried like the other republics to Go for Independence,but it was again for a short Time and Stayed in the Russian Federation. Another Thing - In Tatarstan there is a lot of Oil. And for the last 25 years the Study of the History of Volga Bulgaria is still in its infancy.

Cumman Female Warriors in the mod For Medieval 2: Rusichi-Total-War .The Volga Bulgarian Faction in the Mod also gots them.Starting date inthat mod is 1157ad.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Now to the Pics of the Volga Bulgarian Female Warriors.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Volga-Bulgarians vs Mongols.

From Volga-Bulgarian Forum

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

A battle between Volga Bulgars and Rus

Lightly armed Volga Bulgar soldier from the 11th century

Volga Bulgars from the 9th century

Ahmad Ibn Fadlan before Khan [elteber actually, IIRC, and later emir] Almush

This is the Research from the Broken Crescent mod team for Volga Bulgaria.Not Mine.

Originally Posted by Rampante-Cid

Yes I found this pics in many sources.
I will try put the links soon.

The Volga Bulgar pics there are from this page: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=158192.45

The names of the units from this page: http://www.s155239215.onlinehome.us/...6En_Titles.htm

Names of the military organisation:

Z. Z. Miftakhov
Lecture course on history of Tatar people

Lecture 16

Military and politico - social history of Volga Bulgaria of the 12 c.
Attachments and Tables

<= 3. Index of ethnonyms · 4. Index of military terms, titles, state offices · 5. Указатель географических названий, частей света =>

a - as a in arch, j - as j in jealousy, kh - as h in hug, ü - as u in munitions, y - as Y in York or as i in if

4. Index of military terms, titles, government agencies

Anar One of the forms of addressing a ruler, it was used in the initial stages of the Bulgarian ethnos
Angly General name for the coast guard squads (literally - "standing guard by the water")
Balikbashi Commander of a garrison of a small fortress, i.e. balik or suburb of a large city
Baltavar Title of the first rulers of the Bulgarian states. The word was formed from two words, "bal" - lord and "tavar" - Prince. Full translation: "Lord of Princes"
Bak (bek, bi) Title of the of a high rank feudal lord in service, later - prince
Bat Ruler, head, leader. Derivative is Batavyl: the headquarter of the ruler
Batyr Title of the head of a clan, small allodial prince
Bahadir Title of the middle rank feudal lord, a knight
Brig (Birig) Regional militia
Bika Lady, Princess
Guzar Lightly armed soldier of the third line. Other variations of the title: chirmysh, aydar
Djandar Shield bearer, bodyguard
Djura Mercenary, militiaman, member of feudal retinue
Divan Royal office, the governmen
Ilche Regent; representative of the ruler
Kaves 1) militiaman; 2) soldier of a garrison reporting to City council; 3) infantryman armed with arbalet; 4) suburb names in the cities of Bolgar and Kazan
Cossack 1) initial meaning, a knight battling without an armour out of neglect to death and bravery, and also one who gave a vow to not marry until performing some military feats; 2) later, feudal lord in service
Kan Kagann , Emperor. Derivative - Hakan
Karatun 1) crusader, 2) a Christian fanatic
Karaul Patrol, guard
Katau 1) log barrier, 2) ukreplennyj camp, 3) a fortress
Koryk Divisional banner in the Bulgarian army
Salchi Seaman
Soldash (Üldash) Hired soldier
Tavysh Hunnish name of a large segment of an army. The commanderof the tavysh is called tavyshchi or tuchi.
Tudjun Ambassador, envoy for special assignments
Tufang Cannon
Tuchi Military leader of several clans elected for the period of war
Urma Nationaly mobilized army
Ulan Heavily armed knight of the "first line"
Hatyn Spouse of the ruler, Empress
Sheredjirs Incendiary shells invented Bulgarian masters. In the Kiev Rus they were called "shereshirs" or " Besermen fire"
Elbir (bahadir) Soldier of the "second line"
Er-even Guardpost, military guardhouse
Yau tagan Bulgarian ballistic machine

And there the links for the other Bulgar names:

1. Index of cities, fortresses and stations
2. Index of rivers, lakes, seas, oceans
3. Index of ethnonyms
4. Index of military terms, titles, state offices
5. Index of geographical names, parts of the world
6. Index of Kazan Mosques

Originally Posted by Rampante-Cid

Hi, there I put some pictures of Volga Bulgaria

Volga-Bulgaria

Infantry:

Urma (spearmen)

Kaves (spearmen)

Kaves (archer)

Birig (spearmen)

Kaves veteran (archer)

Kaves marksman

Baryn-yaram (heavy infantry)

Calvary:

Yuldash

Jura

Jura Veteran

Horse Archer

Elbir (bahadir)

Hasham

Originally Posted by wudang_clown

Here are three examples of light horsemen unit; drawings were made by someone from Marka team, authors of Rusichi TW. They allowed us to use their graphics as a reference in unit making:

I'm posting only three, because I don't want to reveal too much.

Though I'm not sure now whether they weren't posted already on some Russian forum...

Originally Posted by matmohair1

Archeology from "Arms and armor of the crusading era" by David Nicole

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

https://www.facebook.com/bulat.gilvanov
The Facebook profile of Bulat Gilvanov,who is born in Volga Bulgaria, modern Tatarstan,Russia. He knows the Subject better than me.And Looking At his Facebook he works at the Creative workshop of painting of the Russian Academy of Fine Arts in the city of Kazan. And in the image above in his Profile - it Writes Ministry of Culture of Republic of Tatarstan,National Cultural Centre "Kazan". Kazan is the Capital of Tatarstan.

This 1 easy Google search about the Female Warriors of Volga Bulgaria and a Good round of of the local Legends about the subject.
http://amazonky.livejournal.com/52812.html

This what Google translate Says.I Just Read in the Link that The legend of Altynchech also became a story with the same name in a Opera work, which was designed by the famous Kazan artists Peter Speranski.If you Got Better Russian Tell me. From here you guys Dig Deeper. Im not obligated by anybody to find what you needed. just find the rest for yourself.I dont have the time for more.Thats it. GL HF.

Altynchech - Goldilocks

January 3, 2013
Altynchech - golden hair; with golden hair, Goldilocks. In the historical legends: the name of the daughter of the Bulgarian Khan. Name Altynchech widespread among the Mari. Synonym: Zarbanu. The legends about the girls warrior-daughter of the Bulgarian Khan is often beautiful name Altynchech. In one legend, pursued by enemies, she brick itself, and all the treasures of the khan's treasury in a cave. She did not die and still guards the entrance to the cave. Her return is linked in the popular mind with the revival of the Bulgarian lands. Altynchech image - a symbol of unbending will of the people and a symbol of hope for the revival. Altynchech image is one of the finest jewels in the treasury of folk culture.

There are numerous traditions in praise of the nobility, sacrifice, devotion and beauty of Bulgarian women. These legends of women - the soldiers are fighting against foreign invaders seeking to enslave their own country. Almost all the legends on this subject appears Tamerlane, who lived in the 14th century, and destroy all of Central Asia and the Volga region, but most of them rooted in the period of struggle of Bulgaria with the Mongol invasion in the 13th century, and the name of Timur is the result of a later change.
After the defeat Bulgar city Tamerlane, according to the legend "Forty girls" are led by the daughter of the Bulgarian king, dressed in military clothes and armor, went to Bilyar and steel to protect the city. When I came Timur the Lame, they died fighting with the enemies. There they were buried, and the burial place of these girls - warriors is now called "Kyzlar Ziarat '(maiden cemetery). Another legend says that in the town of Bulgar Marjan lived 12 beautiful and intelligent girls. When there was a war for Bilyar, loudly cursing enemies and thereby weaken their power. The daughter of the Bulgarian king with twelve girls staged a trap enemies. But forces were unequal. Fleeing from enemies they rode fast horses in the town of Marjan. But Marjan and the city was destroyed and reduced to ashes. Enemies captured 12 girls and forced them to build a mountain near Bilyar. Enemies wanted to bury them alive on top of this mountain. But then 12 girls turned 12 stars and ascended into the sky. Beautiful legend of Bulgarian princess written from the words of the old-timer A. Ahunzyanova village Shemardan Sabinsky area. Bilyar Abdullah Khan - said it - the capture of the town of Bulgar Tamerlane with his children, his wife and close relatives secluded in one of the stone buildings of the capital. Conqueror ordered to fill the building with logs and set fire to it. All Hide killed except the youngest daughter of Khan, considered the most beautiful and intelligent girl in the city. She managed to get out through a hole in the roof of the building. Timur, when he saw her in a white robe, bravely facing the flames, was struck by the courage, determination and extraordinary beauty of the girl, and immediately ordered to put out the fire. When the noise of the fire died down, he publicly stated that it will make a major and his wife and that she would decorate his tent. But the princess said that soon threw down his head, you agree to become the wife of the conqueror and murderer. Furious Tamerlan ordered to bring him her two brothers, captured and sentenced to death. The daughter of the Bulgarian Khan, saw the brothers in the stocks on the neck, very pale, and cried to the conqueror, that she agreed to become his wife if he is in her eyes let the brothers on freedom and give them the best horses. Timur, who wanted at any price has become master of beauty and lost her mind immediately freed the captives and himself led him to two fast horses. Bulgarian princes took off on them and throwing a farewell glance at the younger sister disappeared from sight. The daughter of the Bulgarian Khan rushed upside down on the dying logs. Two brothers of her commute to the northern regions of Bulgaria and on the banks of the river Kazanka founded the city of Kazan. The table legend later poured into the legend "Yanmy Torgan Kiz" (a girl who is not lit) and the legend of the Kazan queen Syuyumbike that allegedly committed suicide, jumping from the tower after the capture of Kazan by the troops of Ivan the Terrible. In 1222, the Mongolian army first attacked the Volga Bulgaria. Bulgars repulsed the attack invaders, but in subsequent years, hiking on the Volga State renewed several times - as long as almost all cities of Bulgaria were not destroyed. In these battles, and fallen Altynchech father, the Emir of the Volga Bulgaria, and her lover, and she a princess and another forty her friends took up arms to defend their land. All of them were killed, and the heroic death of the Bulgarian warriors differently reflected in the legends that have come down to the present generations of their descendants. It is also said that in the capital of Volga Bulgaria appeared Bilyare spring, which turned the fallen defender of the city. And there is a version for which Altynchech sealed themselves with gosudartsvennoy treasury somewhere in the Ural Mountains, where it should ever come out. The legend of Altynchech also became the story of the same name of the opera, which was designed by the famous Kazan artists Peter Speranski. Pictures Bulat Gilvanova "Dreams Altynchech" Helmet

Originally Posted by Kjertesvein

Too long, didn't read:

From my take on it, looking at images and reading historical accounts of female warriors, this is my suggestion for a female Bulgarian unit:

Bulgarian unit with females wearing normal Bulgarian armor, not a "female" version. A garrison unit so that it's primarily for siege defense/reinforcement. Possibly high status, but probably not peasantry class. Doubtful that they have combat training on par with male garrison units, but higher than average moral because they are protecting their children. The size of the unit and it's composition is hard to tell, possibly mixed male and female.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Extended version:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

This post goes the other way, towards experimental archaeology, looking at how to incorporate Bulgarian folklore with the in game roster. Even if people reading this disagree, let's entertain the thought for a minute. Personally, I'm not convinced that there were regular female warriors in a standing medieval field army, historically speaking. From what I've read (and I'm open to be corrected) I do not think it happened. Saying all that, this is not an Ma Thesis, it's a video game that is suppose to be interesting and have variety. Finix (developer) have said he is in favor of a female unit because it adds variety.

So to my understanding of the post by Dontfearme22 above, we lack evidence to have a female centered unit for this faction, but there's more to this. The fact that we do not have evidence for something doesn't mean that it didn't exist. At this stage we're in what Matt Easton calls "we'll never really know territory, so we have to use our brains"[1]. We can discuss the probability of a female unit and the impact it had on a Bulgarian roster, but if we were to assume that there were some female participation in the Bulgarian roster--what would that unknown factor look like? This is my approach:

This unknown area is a difficult subject because it's unknown (duh), but we can experiment using different sources. For starters we can be inspired by Bulgarian folklore and by comparing it with other cultures that we know had some female warriors. Female warriors that had an impact. Once compared with other examples of female warriors from other cultures, we have something to build on. So for example, we have an account of the creation of the Order of the Hatchet, Catalonia 12th century. Simply, in defense of their settlement females dressed up in male armor and defended during a siege by the Moors. Succeeding in the defense, the females were honored by their lord for their bravery so we can expect they had some impact in that battle. The order didn't last very long and it being a secondary source can make it problematic, but we can withdraw certain aspects from it. We know they dressed in the exact same armor as men had. Ok, so we have something. Another point is that we have 50-60 images depicting (western) females in combat scenarios. Mostly artistically loaded with folklore, but they're almost all in male armor and many related to sieges. Now can add something we learn from that as well. Once we have merged Bulgarian folklore, images and other historical accounts, we can build a Bulgarian unit with female representation. For example a rough draft: female soldiers inspired by Bulgarian folklore, in male armor and as a garrison/reinforcement unit. It's still an unknown entity that we'll never really know, but it's a start.

So to kick off with something of substance. FrozenmenSS provided folklore related to siege defense and high status females. I honestly don't know much of that aspects, so I'm not going to go too far into it. I'm sure other people can give better accounts. The second part is that we have the account of the Order of the Hatchet.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Don Raymond captures a settlement. He takes his men out and continues his campaign. The original settlement is poorly defended when besieged by the Moors, but females show bravery by defending it. They put on male armor and succeed. They are thus honored by their lord with Order of the Hatchet and other privileges. My interpretation is that these females were probably not riff raff, seeing as they had access to armor and were "knighted". How many? I don't know. Details? Hard to say, but they did at least impress their lord enough to grant them significant status.

The last part I mentioned is the images I talked about depicting females in combat scenarios. This is going to be a fairly long list of females in combat related scenarios. The images are made during the middle ages and in western/central Europe.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

As can be observed, note that all of them have normal armor. There is no female bikini or Skyrim armor.

My conclusion is therefor at the top of my post.

~Wille

Originally Posted by FrozenmenSS

Kjertesvein great post. Now by the look of everything my impression is that the unit rosters of the factions in the mod on average is around 20 so 2 only female 1 low tier and 1 late tier cavalry units (probably horse archers can do it) and if you choose to add also mixed male female unit maybe another 2 infantry units with unit cards of men this can do the trick. And some of them to be recruitable in AOR this will be perfect.

For females that were warriors in Danube Bulgaria in the medieval bulgaria the most known example is the battle of Pliska/Varbitza pass where Krum the Fearsome armed hole regiments of women against the Romans in 811.

Another reason why Bogomilism was popular in the balkans and the peasants was that in that Ortodox sect men and women were equal and noone needed to pay the nobles taxes. The heretic movement started in the mid 10th century in Bulgaria and died out in the 15th century and in the mod that sect is already added. For the Second Bulgarian Tzarstvom/Empire the most known women are queens and some noblewoman. In the mid 13th century there were queens who ruled the state and the nobles didn't liked it and rebeled vs the capital. But no female warriors in that time known to history.

But after the fall of the balkans there were women leading bulgarian rebels against the Ottoman turks up until 1878 and there were songs about them if I'm not mistaken.

https://www.google.bg/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://journal.sustz.com/VolumeII/Number7/Papers/TonyaTourtourikova.pdf&q=жени%20войводи&ved=0ahUKEwiRxvirp7DKAhVCDywKHYOND8kQFghTMA8&usg=AFQjCNHJLXcjtOf3aGrKBTnojRS6CyFHTA&sig2=1d4L_t85NRVm9YgNd5Smrg

**FrozenmenSS** · February 15, 2016, 06:18 PM

Here a song from Volga Bulgarian(Tatarstan) Metal band. The Song is in their Album: «Алтынчач» 2006
http://baradj.bandcamp.com/album/demo-album

http://baradj.com/diskografiya.html

here is the Opera «Алтынчач»
Its premire was in 12 July1941 in Kazan

http://www.belcanto.ru/opera_altynchach.html

http://orfey.club/opyeri/altinchach-zhiganov/

**FrozenmenSS** · March 22, 2016, 09:35 AM

Bolgar XIV is a virtual museum with elements of educational game which allows player to visit ancient city Bolgar, immerse himself into authentic, medieval atmosphere and get information about historical cultural monuments.
This video shows evolution of project's development stages from start to nowadays.
Time of shipping is planned on Autumn 2016.
More info at: https://digitalmedialab.carbonmade.com/

**Slytacular** · March 22, 2016, 11:46 AM

That video was interesting to watch. I've always thought about what if people made virtual museums, but I have never seen any good examples until now.

**FrozenmenSS** · July 02, 2016, 04:58 PM

Images Provided by Bobi_TWR in a duplicate thread. Reposting Here.
Personally I think the 3 Pics below can help Finix A lot when he starts making the unit Cards for the Volga Bulgarian units.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**jim501** · July 03, 2016, 11:38 AM

HEre is an image of some Cumans that were also in service to the Bulgarains in big numbers.

**FrozenmenSS** · July 12, 2016, 07:14 AM

Now here are some of the lost Pictures in TWC in early January when TWC crashed back then when i posted my research on Volga Bulgaria.

1.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

2.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

3.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

4. Sourse of the Pic:
http://komanda-k.ru/%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%...B0%D1%80%D1%8B

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**FrozenmenSS** · July 12, 2016, 02:29 PM

Here are some pics from a submod for SS 6.4 made by a guy from Taiwan 4 years ago. I think the emblems can help a lot when doing the flags for the faction. Example the Bars with the wings.

Link for the submod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...lgaria-preview

**FrozenmenSS** · July 13, 2016, 06:48 AM

Now that Bobi_TWR Started working on the Volga Bulgarian unit Roster I helped him a lot with names,armour,weapons for the Roster and the future gameplay with that faction.

So here is the Unit Roster:names,types of units, plans what the gameplay should be for each unit. Here you wont find unit stats. its too early for this at this stage of development of the Faction.

1)2 General units:
Khan’s Guard - from the Cummans
Emir’s Guard – Mixed unit between men and women. 50%-50% , melee cav , stronger than Khan’s Guard

2)4 units of Spearmen:
Armed Peasants
Birig Spearmen - no shield wall but they can throw battle axes at the enemy like the franks in Vannila Attila.
Urma Spearmen - no shield wall but they can throw battle axes at the enemy like the franks in Vannila Attila.Stronger unit
Baryn-yaram Spearmen – Mixed unit between men and women. 50%-50%. no shield wall but they can use bows with some limited ammo.

3)3 units of swordsmen:
Birig Swordsmen - no shield wall but they can throw battle axes at the enemy like the franks in Vannila Attila.
Urma Swordsmen - no shield wall but they can throw battle axes at the enemy like the franks in Vannila Attila.
Baryn-yaram Swordsmen – Mixed unit between men and women. 50%-50%. no shield wall but they can use bows with some limited ammo.

4)3 units of Archers:
Peasant Archers
Urma Archers - nothing unique like gameplay
Guzar Archers - nothing unique like gameplay

5)2 units of Crossbows
Guzar Crossbows - nothing unique like gameplay
Kaves Crossbows - nothing unique like gameplay

6)1 Gunpowder:
Guzar Gunners - nothing unique like gameplay

7)1 Nafatun unit:
Sheredjirs – same gameplay as the Sassanid naft granade units in vannila Attila

9)2 units with 2h axes:
Ugrian Axemen
Ugrian Heavy Axemen

11) 6 Melee cavalry units
Steppe Lancers - from the Cummans
Ural Cossacks - they can throw axes at the enemy like the franks in Vannila Attila before charging. for more information:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ural_Cossacks
Heavy Lancers - from the Cummans
Heavy Polyanitsi - The unit can be used also for the Cumman faction in the mod. This unit is 100% female only unit.They can throw axes at the enemy like the franks in Vannila Attila before charging.
Bahadirs - They can throw axes at the enemy like the franks in Vannila Attila before charging.
Ulans - They can throw axes at the enemy like the franks in Vannila Attila before charging. Late game unit. The name of the unit comes from the Tatar/Mongol culture after Volga Bulgaria fell in the 1240s. Ulans Means literally Heavily armed knightя of the "first line" Later the name was adopted by Polish,German,Russian and other military elites later from the Golden horde in the late medieval period.

12) 4 units of Horse Archers
Light Horse Archers - from the Cummans
Heavy Horse Archers - from the Cummans
Polyanitsi - The unit can be used also for the Cumman faction in the mod. This unit is 100% female only unit.
Armored Polyanitsi - The unit can be used also for the Cumman faction in the mod. This unit is 100% female only unit.

in Total 28 units, 5 units reused from the Cummans,2 reused peasant units.= 21 new unique units for Volga Bulgaria, 3 of the new units can be used also for the Cummans and 3-6 for the Kipchaks .

The Weakness of the Faction is no shield wall ability for infantry(due to the smaller shields compared with rest of european shields) and no shock cavalry, but the strong point is that the melee infantry(spears and swords) can throw battle axes, and the elite infantry can use bows and still engage in combat. This way the gameplay for Volga Bulgaria is not the same as of the rest of the European factions where the tactics more or less are the same

**FrozenmenSS** · July 13, 2016, 08:27 AM

Now for the Cummans I was proposing in the past the Cummans to get the 3 Vlach units And Now that the Volga Bulgarian units are being made, the Cummans can get also 3 units from Volga Bulgaria:
Polyanitsi
Armored Polyanitsi
Heavy Polyanitsi

In the latest Releaced version of the Mod the Cummans got 14 units. With this proposal the Cummans can have 20 units in Total.

Now for the Kipchaks faction my proposal for their Roster is this :

Their Unit Roster is the Same as the Cummans ,but without the Vlach and Moldovan units,but with 6 Volga Bulgarian units:

Ugrian Axemen
Ugrian Heavy Axemen
Ural Cossacks
Polyanitsi
Armored Polyanitsi
Heavy Polyanitsi

Now the Kipchaks got 19 units with the opportunity to add some Mongol/Tatar units on top of it.
The units will represent the Kipchaks before the Arival of the Mongols/Tatars in Europe.There is also opportunity when making the Mongol/Tatar unit rosters some of their units also be for the Kipchaks as late game units for the faction that later became the Golden Horde ,but removing the Volga Bulgarian units for compensation:
Polyanitsi
Armored Polyanitsi
Heavy Polyanitsi

And Finally I dont know what will be the unit roster for Alania and the Circassians, but they can have the Cumman unit roster without the Vlach,Moldovan,Volga Bulgarian units + Slavic Spearmen but with maybe for compensation 3-6 Georgian units.I cant say what exact Georgian unit can be suitable for them,because i dont know the research behind the Georgian units in the mod. If Georgia get an unit update some of the new units can also go for Alania and the Circassians.

So Baseline for the Alania and the Circassians shared unit roster is 12 units with the opportunity to add some Georgian units on top of it.

**FrozenmenSS** · October 31, 2016, 03:05 AM

Originally Posted by Lucem Mundum

Interesting findings @Visarion + rep, I was actually in the process of making a Cuman unit based on the one wearing the red coif.

I have always wondered wither this is a traditional Cuman attire or a "Hungarianised" adaption.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Anyways, here are a few questions...

1) If you are familiar with Kingdom Come Deliverance, How accurate are their Cuman armors?

Here is an example. The shield looks very Indo-Persian to me...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

2) Any ideas what types of units I should add? I am thinking about adding a very crappy sword infantry, similar in appearance to the ones in the image below, and of course the red-coifed unit I mentioned above.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Originally Posted by FrozenmenSS

Now for the Cummans I was proposing in the past the Cummans to get the 3 Vlach units And Now that the Volga Bulgarian units are being made, the Cummans can get also 3 units from Volga Bulgaria:
Polyanitsi
Armored Polyanitsi
Heavy Polyanitsi

In the latest Releaced version of the Mod the Cummans got 14 units. With this proposal the Cummans can have 20 units in Total.

Now for the Kipchaks faction my proposal for their Roster is this :

Their Unit Roster is the Same as the Cummans ,but without the Vlach and Moldovan units,but with 6 Volga Bulgarian units:

Ugrian Axemen
Ugrian Heavy Axemen
Ural Cossacks
Polyanitsi
Armored Polyanitsi
Heavy Polyanitsi

Now the Kipchaks got 19 units with the opportunity to add some Mongol/Tatar units on top of it.
The units will represent the Kipchaks before the Arival of the Mongols/Tatars in Europe.There is also opportunity when making the Mongol/Tatar unit rosters some of their units also be for the Kipchaks as late game units for the faction that later became the Golden Horde ,but removing the Volga Bulgarian units for compensation:
Polyanitsi
Armored Polyanitsi
Heavy Polyanitsi

And Finally I dont know what will be the unit roster for Alania and the Circassians, but they can have the Cumman unit roster without the Vlach,Moldovan,Volga Bulgarian units + Slavic Spearmen but with maybe for compensation 3-6 Georgian units.I cant say what exact Georgian unit can be suitable for them,because i dont know the research behind the Georgian units in the mod. If Georgia get an unit update some of the new units can also go for Alania and the Circassians.

So Baseline for the Alania and the Circassians shared unit roster is 12 units with the opportunity to add some Georgian units on top of it.

**Lucem Mundum** · October 31, 2016, 11:10 AM

@ FrozenmenSS How was the relationship like between Volga Bulgaria and Cumania? adding 3 elite Volga Bulgar units seems a bit much.

**Visarion** · October 31, 2016, 12:36 PM

Some tier 2 and 3 candidates for Mongols and Tartars as Kypchaks should resemble the old Khazars, taking their place, face masks, chain chin protectors

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Mongol Overlords and Elite Early and High Units:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**FrozenmenSS** · October 31, 2016, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Lucem Mundum

@ FrozenmenSS How was the relationship like between Volga Bulgaria and Cumania? adding 3 elite Volga Bulgar units seems a bit much.

Mixed. Some Cumans were alies,others were Attacking the Volga-Bulgarians

Those 3 units arent specificaly for only Volga-Bulgarians to be used.The units are more universally focused to be used by the Cumans/Kipchaks and Volga Bulgars all had high status for the women in their Societies and this didnt excluded women from going to war.
Polyanitsi are low tier unit horse archer unit
Armored Polyanitsi - armored version of the Horse Archer unit above.
Heavy Polyanitsi - same armored version of the Horse Archer above ,but mainly for close combat.

Thread: Research Thread: Cumans/Kipchaks and Volga Bulgars

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