Greek wars - How I am losing and why its awesome

[ostendadler]

Hi DEI team,

I want to share my last night's adventure in Rome/Julia Grand Campaign in 244BC.

I just ended a 40 turn bloody war with the different Alpine Tribes which resulted in them turning into my client state and buffer states against the raging germanic tribe of Sweboz. Although that's a story for another time I had my most epic campaign fighting those tribes up north and had one legendary battle in Helvetia, a shameful difficult retreat and a long and difficult campaign to victory. That rocked ! Massalia has succombed to A combined Cessetani/Arveni alliance. For now my Western border with them in the Alpes is on an uneasy truce.

East the illyrian territories are stuck in an endless war with each other with no clear winner. Not being able to field more than 3 armies (thanks to the amazing supply/revenue stream I have) I cannot stretch myself into too many wars so I remain in peace with them. I have set up a non aggression pact with my immediate neighbor and provide them with financial support once in a while to avoid seeing my illyrian flank fall to some more angry tribes.

South Carthage has taken Sicily but has withdrawn its army to attack Spain and reinforce its holdings there. Their cultural influence is just growing endlessly which could be troublesome in the end.

Now comes the interesting part. Epirus has for the last 15 years gone on an absolute rampage in Greece wiping everybody out leaving only Sparta. Now for me I wouldn't care less but Epirus has knocked out all of my greek trading partners which is quite annoying. Sparta is holding but barely against the waves of armies from Epirus.

Now for the first time in many campaigns Sparta did something nothing short of amazing to lure me in the war with Epirus. They offered to become my vassal and gave me 15,000 gold which in AI standards is VERY BIG.

Having a particularly bad diplomatic relation with Epirus and not wanting them to go after me after the fall of Sparta I accepted their offer and shipped my most Senior Legion (the 1st) down south while the two others remain static up north in prevention of the angry Arverni.

I landed with no problems with my first legion in Sparta and have been trying to keep Sparta from falling for about a year when Epirus decided to attack Sparta and myself. What a battle!

in an almost Cynoscephalae style three style of armies faced each other and the outcome was nothing short of bloodie. At the 40 minute mark I was anything but winning. My General Maximus (RIP) died trying to overturn assaults on my streched lines. Spartans held the line giving to Epirus as much as they received and by the end of battle time my legion was routing.

3000 romans 800 Spartans vs 4000 Epirians (?) and in the end I had a little more than a 1000 man left, no general and Epirus had about 16000 men left. Epirus certainly has more armies hiding in the fog of war up north and I cannot send any decent reinforcement unless I keep my Nothern frontier under manned. What to do? If I don't manage to stop them north of Sparta, what I call my greek war will end up as a disaster. 1/3 of my armed forces are in dire situation, my client is badly bloodied and my treasury is already stretched thin.

That's AWESOME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since I started this new campaign with the latest update it has been nothing short of Amazing. I had to withdraw in battles with some of the Alpine tribes to avoid complete annihilation (never happened in Rome 2 before). Campaigning in enemy territory has been nothing short of Epic with the current supply system.

Guys I have been longing to feel insecure, scared and caring for my men and generals ever since I bought Rome 2. I'm in 244BC and I'm anything but the king of the region. I don't see my war with Epirus finishing short unless of course I lose grip and Sparta falls. Then perhaps I will consider giving up on Greece to concentrate on Gaul which is anything but friendly towards me.

To the Divide Et Impera Team I want to say thank you and command you for your work. We are many to enjoy it everyday but few ever take the time to thank you for your work. Guys you made Rome 2 awesome. If you are ever in my city or me in yours I'll buy you a round of drinks.

Looking forward to delving in DEI tonight. SPARTA SHALL NOT FALL. I SWEAR IT BY THE GODS. ROMA VICTOR !!

A FAN.

[Dresden]

Thank you for that wonderfully detailed campaign report! You don't know how amazing it is to hear these kind of things. We spent so much time creating and testing the mod, but you never know how it will eventually play out in the hands of all the players. Your story really brought a smile to my face!

[Hoplite of Ilis]

This is what you call "one happy customer". Seems DEI continues to be great. On my end, my pc is not strong enough to handle DEI... (to a very high level). The lag is terrible...
But on the plus side... Heh! Age of Mythology has had a new expansion! Yahooo!

[Noone likes Thebes:(]

As always the dark and persistent question looms over threads like these....

What difficulty settings you playing on?

I'm always searching for that perfect mix of difficult without tedium.

[McCarronXLD]

This was amazing to hear thank you for sharing.

[ostendadler]

I'll post some screens of my campaign when I get home so you can see what the setting is on.

I play in normal difficulty for campaign and battle.

So far I tend to develop civilian technologies rather than military.

My legions always line up 12 to 14 units no more to enable me to field 3 Legions full time.
If you guys are interested I have done some "massalia tales" style report turn after turn. Sadly i've written it down on paper.

I did not go to war from turn 1 but rather downsized the army and developed the regions and infrastructure.
I first focused on securing the Alpine pass region (genua, Patavium and Mediolanum). Then I went to war with all 3 Alpine tribes in one go (helvetti, Raeti and Norii) I did not conquer them I wanted to turn them into client states (I think mediolanum is a great defensive position). I initially levied 2 full time legions of 12 to 14 units and a 3rd militia defending patavium from the Norii. In game I had to play back and forth with the tribes in the alpine passes until I crushed the helvetti.

The norii captured that annoying city on the illyrian coast that I never can remember. I went and liberated the city and turned the city into my Ally. Those annoying a*holes from the Raeti tribe expanded North so I decided to sack their capital city and campaigned up north to wage war on their second city. I had some really rough times up north thanks to the amazing supply system. My first expedition with 1 Legion ended in a crushing defeat when the Raeti and Norii linked two armies and bled my down on an epic river battle.
After that I went on the defensive for a while to rebuild my lost legion meanwhile my illyrian ally tried sieging the Norii capital and failed. My last legion was battling Raetii raids on Mediolanum and my Militia got crushed by a Norii army. That was stressful since once legion cannot defend on two fronts.
I managed to defend Mediolanum for a couple of turns and brought the fight to the Norii and those Raeti. I levied a 3 12 unit legion and divided my force this way. 2 heading north to sack the Raeti capital (again) and march on their second settlement north to liberate it. East I sent one legion to liberate the second Norii captured territory and ordered my ally to re-siege their capital. After some very difficult campaign up north I succeeded in liberating the Raeti captured settlement and submitting the Raeti.

East my ally and I destroyed the Nori capital and my ally took ownership of their walled city.

All in all that left me with a secured nothern and eastern front with very angry arvernis at the west, envying carthaginians south, an illyrian ally at war with all his neighbors. and a treasury not very glorious.

A 100 turns in I'm anything but a behemoth on the campaign map and I'm enjoying every turn of the campaign. So far no AI country is dominating and the AI seems to be a lot more cautious in their moves.

That Sparta offer just blew my mind away. Hope this answers your question. Rome wasn't done in a day so those my campaign ;-)

[Hoplite of Ilis]

What about the AI attacking you? Is DEI managing on its own, or do you need separate AI mods?

[ostendadler]

The second I accepted the offer of Sparta, Epirus went crazy and declared war on me the following turn.

early on that tribe that own Mediolanum declared war on me. That's also another reason why I tend to keep my armed forces to 6 units when I am not at war. This way the AI's mechanics still see me as weak.
2 years into DEI and Rome 2 I know the shortfall of the AI. If they see you as too big they won't attack or declare war. Knowing that I always try to downsize myself in terms of armies to entice the AI to attack me.

In case this is still not enough for the AI and for the sake of challenge if I find myself in a situation where the Arveni's are camping on my border for more than 2 years (8 turns) I will declare war to them on their behalf to hype up the game difficulty.

I just try to play along with the AI's limitation and so far its been an amazing ride. I'm done lining up crazy amounts of armies and expanding as fast as I can. I put myself in the shoes of the Senate and ask myself what would they do? how would the world react. Try it its fun!

[Hoplite of Ilis]

You really try to feel the campaign! Well, I like to be challenged by the AI. Anyway, nice to see you excited about it.

[Dresden]

Difficulty level in campaigns affects that quite a bit from what I can tell. Normal difficulty they will definitely behave fairly rationally as you described (won't attack if you are a larger threat). A lot of players like the feeling of having a rational diplomacy that you can actually use allies, client states and have some dynamic campaign interactions other than simply have the AI be constantly waiting to back stab.

Having said that, I did create the hardcore submod for those who prefer a bit more of a constant crush.

[ThatWhichThinks]

That's such an awesome campaign story. I love those!

I'm currently in the middle of an Arverni campaign where, in the face of Roman and Germanic attack I managed to align the tribes (first as my allies then in a confederation). I managed to drive back the Sweboz and Leugoz, but the Romans are tough, tenacious, and remarkably aggressive with counter-attacks (which is great). I've been taking and losing several provinces in Raetia et Noricum for the last twenty years in-game, and of course the Iceni have to attack Belgica from the north every so often, too...

[Frankly]

I'd also like to say great work DEI team! I'm almost at the point where I've played more DeI than vanilla Rome II, it's simply excellent what you've all managed to cook up.

I'm only early days into my first DeI Rome campaign and it's a lot of fun. My allies in Syracuse have managed to take control of Sicily, providing me with an excellent buffer state from Carthage while I take Corsica et Sardinia. Similarly I also had troubles with an ambitious Epirus, though I managed to loot and dismantle everything in Appollonia while their armies had gone south to fight Athens/Sparta. Northwards and I have a shaky client state agreement with the Veneti and a variety of trade/non aggression pacts with the local tribes. I don't know how much you guys tweaked diplomacy but the AI seems more open to reasonable and mutually beneficial offers, plus navigating the 'this tribe hate/likes this tribe' is a nice diversion on the campaign map.

Unfortunately I didn't realize at the time that nobody likes the Dalmatae, so my treaties there have ended up with me sending a half-strength legion of early Hastati on a campaign to loot and plunder the Illyrian coast, Dalmatae included. I'm not under threat, but the battles are a lot of fun, the campaign map is interesting and challenging with the many, many tweaks and system additions/changes. I'm hiring a lot of local AOE troops, I'm actually raiding and looting because the territories would be too costly to hold and rebuild, I'm switching up edicts (call to arms is a very interesting addition). One of these days I'll even remember to equip my Illyrian campaign with a supply wagon or supporting fleet, they're not the most efficient at the moment.

While my vanilla Rome Principes/Legionnaire bulldozer of a campaign was fun, this mod feels like a totally different and nuanced game. Thank you DeI team!

[Kassandros]

This really is a great mod.

I just finished turn 105 as the Ptolemies. At about turn 20 I sent a single stack and a fleet to intervene in the conflict between the Athenians / Spartans and Macedonians. I easily took Pella, while my main army was subduing the rest of Nabatea, until the Odrysians invaded from the north and liberated it (about ten years later). Finally, after 80 turns and being forced to conquer Krete to use as a staging point, bringing every stack to northern Greece, as well as two full fleets, I managed to defeat the Macedonian army, negotiate a separate peace with the Odrysians, and reconquer Pella. Now it's my headquarters in Europe. I also just walked over and took Apollonia, which was Rome's last province, as Italy is completely in the hand of the Syracusans, who just broke their decades-old alliance with me and Carthage. Trouble brewing on the horizon?

[balparmak]

wow sparta offering voluntary vassalization is just awesome, never seen AI do that (except when I'm nearing global hegemony at late-game)

[austerlitz]

Sounds great,i struggled very hard early on too when i first play this mod due to money.
First rule when playing as rome for me...massalia and delmatae non aggression pacts first turns and send admiral to explore eastern regions for trade.Expand cisalpina with mercs early...vassalize or kill raeti nori which is a boody pain in the ass once they are allied.Then with cisalipna flanks secure i usually go full force carthage.
Never gone greece this early.sounds very interesting.Keep updated plz.


Great mod.

[jcaronho]

Ok this is my campaign as macedon on 222bc, started by taking whole of thrace while the other greek states were fighting for larissa, always refusing to get into that mess since i knew it would take time and money , leaving my thrace settlement fragile for the barbarians.

After that i joined the fighthing for greece starting by vanquishing epirus and fighting athenes and sparta together in some awesome open ground battles where my cavalry just completly won the day. After taking sparta and raiding athenes territory ,since at that point it was near to impossible to take the capital with an army inside, knossos joined the democratic state and tried to push me back , defeating the help that came from knossos and taking the city (finally) knossos realised they were in deep trouble and offered himself to be my client state so i accepted since i couldnt spent any money on a fleet.

During this time i made trade agreements with chartage to try help them out without entering the war vs rome, still failed since rome took chartage and most africa around 240 bc.


so greece +thrace its all macedonian , i started to do the same alexander the great did around 80years before and went into asia entering almost instantly in war with the seleucids, after getting the citys of ephesus and pergamon , with relative ease i started a war wich would last around 15 years with the seleucids .

I lost my 8star rank general, Antigonos, in a massive battle between my best army vs 2 full stacks of seleucid army. they sent army after army trying to push me back , wich they almost did when they killed my general and recovered "side" and "pessinous".

After some intense battles i finally captured tarsus and from there they never really recovered, specially when 2 years after i got antioch.

So now i got most of alexander conquered territory , missing only egypt wich im gonna take tonight and the zones of parthia baktria etc, where most tribes united forming the "arcasid empire".

North of macedon the daco-thracian confederacy formed aswell but they dont really have beef with me, what worries me though its rome and the sweboz (dont remember english name).


Enjoying the campaign a lot, when AI actually forms aliances , and in my opinion supply system its one of the best aditions to the game . only total war mod i remember having this was a medieval 2 mod called "deus lo vult".

really good campaign on hard dificulty , having a lot of fun ty for the mod

[Maetharin]

Damn, after reading this I've come to understand how used I have become to playing with DeI!
For me it has become an irreplacable part of Rome II, the features seem to be part of the game, not modded in!
Thank you ostendadler for reminding me of how much I care for this project!
And thank you devs for this awesome mod!

[ostendadler]

wow sparta offering voluntary vassalization is just awesome, never seen AI do that (except when I'm nearing global hegemony at late-game)

I know right? This is the first time an AI "surrenders" to me and not being at war or in bad terms with them.

For those interested Tequila Friday hit me harder than expected so I didn't launch the game the entire weekend. So things haven't changed yet. Screens will come soon.

Thanks for your amazing sitreps guys. I always enjoy sharing "war stories" with other players.

EDIT:

Here is the sit in Greece as we speak. My 1st Legion is down to about 10 units out of 14 and all of them are down into the red or yellow. My General Maximus is dead and a rookie has taken his place. The enemy has been bloodied but has a reinforcing full stack roaming in the fog of war. I'm afraid that the raiding armies are going to destroy the supplies of the region thus leaving me and Sparta in a very bad place.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[ostendadler]

Allright so here's what happened in my "war in Greece"


My beaten up first legion got surrounded in a fort battle and I defended myself against a wave of Antigonidai (ally of Epirus). The king of Sparta and his guards tried their best to assist me in this fort defence and sadly in the end my defence fell. I managed to sally my general and 2 units of slingshots outside the fort and ran off. My General however caught an arrow and died just oustside the gates of our fort while the last legionnaires died around him in a heroic defeat. My 4th Legion is still half way on the way towards Sparta and I'm wondering if I shouldn't simply attack the coast of Epirus rather than sail all the way to Sparta. Suggestions?

Heres the sit:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[ostendadler]

To follow on the question above: Does the AI ever declare war on you?

Well yes ... in 3 turns I've had 3 war declarations against me. All of that almost just after my terrible defeat South in Sparta. I've hard the Daorsi declare war on me (and then sea invade me in Arminium). I've had their Celtic neighbor declare war on me and finally their southern border a minor greek faction also decided It was time to have a go at me and declared war. Interestingly enough they are not allies ...


I don't know what you guys did to the CAI but seriously this campaign just became very intense. This is perhaps my first time in a Rome 2 campaign in normal that I feel like I could lose the game if I don't turn the tide of war.

The Daorsi sea-invaded me with 1 full stack and another minor stack. I was anticipating the invasion but couldn't get my legions into position.

Dresden, Kam and the DEI team if you were wondering when the day you turned Rome II into something epic would come... Well I think today is the day! i'm a 100 turns in and as you can see below ... I'm not reaching the borders of the map anytime soon.

The CAI is relentless.

Rome is in real danger !!!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: