Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

**Spadde** · February 06, 2016, 08:25 AM

Awesome! Cant wait for late era units

And its probably true as they say, swedish cavalry were few and not heavy. Just replace it with that blue cloak that the horse in one of your pics had and I (personally) would be satisfied

**Kjertesvein** · February 07, 2016, 04:59 AM

You're on to something. All of Scandinavia was influenced by German mercenaries, via Denmark. Sweden and Norway was influenced by a nomad composite bow (Tovedbue), but also longbow and the crossbow. Sweden's activity was directed eastwards towards Finish colonies and Baltic trade. Denmark was practically continental country (when it came to cavalry since the 11th century). Norway's interests was to the west and south (like this in 1265).

Norway

Names are changed to accommodate an English speaking audience, while replacing certain hard-to-pronounce names.

The theme is thereor to make Norway's high-late game arms and armor influenced by English traditions to reflect both their (colonial) interests and because both their nobles often chose to fight on foot. It makes sense I think and it's different from the other Scandinavian countries.
I also like the idea of Norway as a marine and ambush faction, but I'm not quite sure to what extent and how to reflect that. Either by faction traits or unit traits, we can come back to that later.
Leidang is Norway's most important military component, comparable to the English longbow.

Here is a first draft. I want to hear your thoughts on the size and scope on how it fits.

As an example if you want a smaller roster I think we can remove Leidang Axemen while Guests fills the standard melee unit.
We can also compress high and late tier units into one tier.
Maybe compress Bondir Spearmen and Bondir Longbow into one militia unit, because Norway doesn't have a starting settlement.

Early

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

High

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Late

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Heraldry:

These are ancient noble Norwegian families from 13th/14th century and have family served as high as the king's council.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I did create the unique Scandinavian Kettle Helmets as you can see featured on the Hirdmen and Crossbowmen, although I didn't know there were rings underneath the brims for the straps.. Oh well. https://skfb.ly/HXqR - https://skfb.ly/HCKq - https://skfb.ly/IvoI

Careful dude, the TWC terms of service clearly state no use of pornographic material allowed.

When it comes to war horse breeding I know there was no such thing in Norway due to the amount of arable land available and topography. I don't know about the 2 others, but I wouldn't be surprised if Denmark (with it's flat terrain) did have horse breeders just like any continental power. The horse scaling and dragoon system, yeah that sounds like too much trouble to be bogged down with if I were you. I wouldn't bother too much with it if it's difficult to do. It might also be impossible for the A.I. to use the dragoon function and it's only a small part of the roster anyway. However, if you get it to work then that would be cool and it can also be adopted into the English army (English mounted longbowmen).

You're correct in a way, standard heater shields has a much better battlefield usage than bucklers. You're also correct that the buckler was favored in duels (at least until the further development of the sword hilt).

The thing about the buckler is that it's a side-arm protection, the shield is not. Think about it like this: 99% of the time, a soldier on campaign is in a non-combat scenario. He eat, walk, drink, cook, pray, sleep, rides, fart, sail, sits at a tavern, chops wood, hunts, takes a shait, etc. and even when the battle was on it was not used constantly by all infantry. So in all these non-combat related scenarios the buckler has an obvious advantage over the shield just in terms of logistics which is a major reason why certain combat gear are preferable. While you can take a sword (example of a side-arm) into a bathroom without trouble, try bringing along a halberd without it getting in the way. Parts of the reasons why NATO changed it's standard caliber rounds was due to logistical reasons ( you can transport more 51 mm rounds than the bigger 7.62 rounds). It would be nice to have a Skyrim backpack, but everything you add in terms of combat prowess has a cost to it which often has to do with money, mobility, logistics, etc. Let's say you're a pikeman, halberd, longbowman, crossbowman, spearmen (2nd rank), cavalry, etc. you're always going to need 2 free hands. So when you're not in need of protection, the buckler is useful because you can put it on your hip. If you need decent hand protection, then you have your side-arm protection.

Common heater shields work just fine for standard Nordic troops, specially against missile fire. I just wanted to show the Nordic flavor when it comes to bucklers and that it can be put on the belt of many other troop types as a valid side-arm protection.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

For Norwegians, I thought I read somewhere that polearm axes became a status symbol at some point in time?

The poleaxe was a pole weapon reaching from chest to man height for armored men of all of Europe to fight other armored men. The head was usually constructed by multiply pieces, often ornate and complex. We can lump the Great dane axe and pole axe into the same high/late unit for a more Nordic feeling. I think that would be kinda cool.

~Wille

**Kjertesvein** · February 08, 2016, 03:47 PM

Danish Royal Armory.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

~Wille

**Count_Blackula** · February 08, 2016, 05:39 PM

Did Scandinavians still use the Dane axe as late as the 13th century? Genuinely curious.

**Påsan** · February 08, 2016, 10:47 PM

I dont think the dane axe went out of favor before halberds and poleaxes replaced them. The daneaxe evolved from a scandinavian "elite" weapon into a european knightly weapon with changes such as a back-spike and spear point added eventually, and then was replaced by the pollaxe and halberd in continental europe. In Scotland and Ireland it lasted longer with Galloglases and such being associated with the weapon. I dont think the pollaxe is a direct successor however, the weapon is used more like a quarterstaff than an axe. Halberd might be considered one.

Sort of similar to the development of the norwegian coat of arms. The lion started out with a daneaxe, then it gradually evolved to a halberd and then it was revised back to a daneaxe again.

**Slytacular** · February 08, 2016, 11:24 PM

@kjertesvein, yes! Thank you!

@Count, yep, 2 handed axes were still in use.

**Kjertesvein** · February 09, 2016, 02:47 AM

Sweden

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Swedish equipment

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Ornament stuff

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

~Wille

**Slytacular** · February 09, 2016, 09:44 AM

Awesome! This is a lot of help!

**Kjertesvein** · February 09, 2016, 10:21 AM

Happy to help.

~Wille

**uzo70** · February 09, 2016, 11:50 AM

I won't be able to do any info even close to Kjertesvein, but here is a couple of books by David Lindholm and David Nicolle, it is really good reading and got some nice illustrations

The Scandinavian Baltic Crusades 1100-1500
Medieval Scandinavian Armies 1 1100-1300
Medieval Scandinavian Armies 2 1300-1500

They are very nice books and if you like scandinavian medieval history or just medieval history in general they are a good investment.

How late are you going to go time wise, because there is some Houndskull and Klappvisor helmets in game wich would be ca. 1350 and if you going to very late like 14xx are you going to split the time periods as they did in Medieval 2 with early-high-late ?

as an extra question, since i am not sure, but wasn't Roskilde bigger than Lödöse at this time ?

**Dumanthis** · February 24, 2016, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by uzo70

I won't be able to do any info even close to Kjertesvein, but here is a couple of links to some books by David Lindholm and David Nicolle, it is really good reading and got some nice illustrations

The Scandinavian Baltic Crusades 1100-1500 http://brego-weard.com/lib2/Men_at_A..._1100-1500.pdf

Medieval Scandinavian Armies 1 1100-1300 http://users.atw.hu/medievalhouse/Os..._1100-1300.pdf

Medieval Scandinavian Armies 2 1300-1500 http://users.atw.hu/medievalhouse/Os..._1300-1500.pdf

How late are you going to go time wise, because there is some Houndskull and Klappvisor helmets in game wich would be ca. 1350 and if you going to very late like 14xx are you going to split the time periods as they did in Medieval 2 with early-high-late ?

as an extra question, since i am not sure, but wasn't Roskilde bigger than Lödöse at this time ?

extra little picture of

Danish and German Crusaders building fortifications at the existing Vod tribal settlement of Koporye 1241

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

So there were SAMI warriors! Well, well, well who was right all along

really good illustrations also, don't forget the finnish auxiliairies.

**Slytacular** · February 09, 2016, 12:31 PM

Bascially, Tier 1 = 1212A.D. to 1350A.D. (High Medieval Era), Tier 2 = 1350 to 1420 (Transitional Era), Tier 3 = 1420 to 1500 (Late Medieval Ages). Campaign simulates start time and politics at 1212A.D. and the future is alternate history.

**Pinarius** · February 09, 2016, 04:29 PM

Three Tiers is great, but I'd love to have four (one between Tier 1 and Tier 2), like: 1212 - 1290 / 1290 - 1360 / 1360 - 1430 / 1430 - 1500

**Kjertesvein** · February 10, 2016, 05:53 AM

Primary source material on the units, education of a Norwegian prince and a few thoughts on Scandinavian knights.

It can be useful to glance over some of available normative sources every now and then when you're in need of inspiration about a particular subject or for unit descriptions later on. For example, after reading it you'll notice by law, every man from commoner to prince were required to own a bow or crossbow. It's not to say it's comparable to English Longbow Law by any stretch of the imagination, but the possibility for a hybrid unit is there if you want something edgy.

The units of the Hird

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

King's Mirror

Excerpts from the King's Mirror in regards to tactics and training. Initially meant as an educational text for the Norwegian prince in 1250-60, but as the preface note "one that should profit every man who intends to follow the craft".

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Thoughts on Norwegian cavalry and how to make the elite among the Scandinavians look unique

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The King's Mirror (1250-60)
Hirdlaw (1270)

Contemporary description of a Norwegian politics late 12th century, from an English monk's perspective:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

This text is from William of Newburgh, a monk from England. He is describing the sanguanairy politics of Norway's civil war era.

A couple of quotes I found interesting.

For, as it is said, for more than a century back, although the succession of kings there had been rapid, yet none of them had ended his days by age or sickness, but all had perished by the sword, leaving the dignity of empire to their assassins as their lawful successors; so that, indeed, the expression, "Hast thou killed, and also taken possession?" may seem to apply to all who reigned there for so long a space of time.

As if George R.R. Martin was the author of the Norwegian Civil War era.

the sovereign pursued him with his army in array, he, artfully feigning flight, halted in some well-known narrow passes, and there so destroyed the royal forces.

On King Magnus chase after King Sverre

"Sverre, the great king, fierce as a lion, mild as a lamb;"
for he manifested clemency to his subjects, and paid respect to churches and monasteries.

Motto of king Sverre

Chapter 6: Of Sverre, king of Norway

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

[1] In these times that very notorious priest, Sverre, surnamed Birckebain, seized the government in that part of Germany which is called Norway; and raging under the title of king for a considerable time, at length, on the decease of the sovereign of that country, obtained the government, as if legitimately; haply, perchance by the appointment of God, hereafter to experience an exit similar to other kings of that land. For, as it is said, for more than a century back, although the succession of kings there had been rapid, yet none of them had ended his days by age or sickness, but all had perished by the sword, leaving the dignity of empire to their assassins as their lawful successors; so that, indeed, the expression, "Hast thou killed, and also taken possession?" [cf. 1 Kings 21:19] may seem to apply to all who reigned there for so long a space of time. The nobility of that country, a little before the usurpation of this priest, being actuated by pious zeal to apply a remedy to this disgraceful evil -- which had obtained, as it were, by long custom, the sanction of law -- decreed that the new king should be solemnly consecrated with holy unction, and crowned, so that in future none might dare to lift his hand against the Lord's anointed. For until that time no one in that country had ever been consecrated king by an ecclesiastical ceremony; but whosoever had cruelly killed the king, from that moment assumed the regal character and power, shortly after about to leave the same fortune to his murderer by the law of art inveterate custom. This, truly, by a certain sort of Christian simplicity, was supposed by many persons to take place because none of the former kings had been careful to have himself initiated with the solemnities of royal unction.

[2] Wherefore, on the death of Haco, who had succeeded king Inga (whom he had murdered when the succession appeared to pertain to a certain youth called Magnus, nephew of the same Inga), the wiser and more noble part of the kingdom, by common assent, caused this same youth to be solemnly consecrated as the Lord's anointed, and to be dignified with the diadem. This being done, they thought that the prince was made sacred to them and the disgrace of the former usage was removed. But when the same Magnus, who now arrived at man's estate, had reigned for several years with equal energy and success, and all supposed that they had made sufficient provision against the storms of usurpation, the malice of the devil stirred up the priest aforesaid, as his proper engine, to disquiet the peace of this Christian people.

[3] After having for a time ministered in the sacred order which he had received in the church, this truly daring and crafty man, through extreme confidence in himself, began to aspire to the kingdom. Soon after, he surveyed the whole district, and diligently advanced the business of his meditated project by artfully assembling around him a band of bold and desperate men, hired by the hope of plunder; and availing himself of trackless deserts as fortresses, he annoyed the king by perpetual irruptions; and when the sovereign pursued him with his army in array, he, artfully feigning flight, halted in some well-known narrow passes, and there so destroyed the royal forces, thus unfortunately surrounded and entangled in the defiles, that the king himself, hiding among the slaughtered bodies, with difficulty made his escape on the departure of the enemy. Elated at this success, and daily gaining strength, he obtained a fleet also, which afforded him an opportunity of overrunning several provinces of the same kingdom. The king, however, recruiting, his forces and manning his fleet, proceeded against the enemy. Sverre was aware of this; and then, once more, he craftily feigned flight, and retreated far out to sea. When this was known to the king, he believed that the departure of this marauder was real, and returned with his fleet into a certain port. Here, when the army, through joy at a vanquished enemy, were giving loose to banqueting in fatal security, the execrable priest entering the harbor on the following night with his adherents, attacked the king's troops, who were overpowered with wine and sleep, and with little difficulty destroyed nearly the whole army, with the king's father and others of the nobility. The king, however, escaping while others fell, lay concealed (as it is said) for several days in a nunnery near at hand, and, vainly sought after by the enemy, eluded them by the will of God.

[4] The tyrant, elated by this disaster, and the havoc which he had inflicted upon his enemy, with equal cruelty and insolence proceeded on every side in triumph, exhibiting himself as a merciless master to the oppressed inhabitants -- but the king, after his concealment, being restored to safety and to his friends, began by degrees to recruit his strength, and to collect auxiliaries on all sides. He was now cautiously on his guard against the stratagems of his enemy, and at last, with a mighty array, proceeded against him. Presently on learning this, when he saw that the youth acted more warily and guardedly on account of his former mischances, and that he had the advantage in the number of ships and extent of forces, Sverre then had recourse to witchcraft. He had in his retinue a certain daughter of the devil, powerful in witchcraft, and deservedly to be compared to her of former times, of whom the noble poet observes, that

The witch pretends that by her potent verse
Some souls are freed, while others feel the curse,
Just as she pleases; that her art has force
To stop the stars or rivers in their course --
To conjure nightly phantoms; when she wills,
Earth roars beneath, and trees descend the hills. [Virgil, Aeneid, 4:487ff]

[5] At length this witch (as it is reported), with astonishing confidence in her destructive art, asked of her protecting usurper in what manner he would wish the enemies, which were before him, should perish. On his making choice that she should drown them, immediately, by the operation of the devil (who, indeed, by the power of his angelic nature has most influence over earthly elements when permitted by a superior power), the calm sea opened her mouth, and, in the sight of the enemy, swallowed up the greater portion of the royal fleet. On seeing this, the abandoned priest said, "Behold, my companions, how effectually the elements fight for us; be careful lest, perchance, those escape whose certain destruction the sea has left for your valor, that she may not seem to have done all." Wherefore the residue of the royal army, confounded at the sudden destruction of their associates, was easily overpowered, and the king himself killed.

[6] On his death the affrighted kingdom submitted to tyrannical usurpation. Sverre abjuring his sacred order and marrying the daughter of the king of the Goths, was anxious to be solemnly crowned by the archbishop of that country; but he, being a man of distinguished character, and neither to be prevailed upon by entreaties or threats to bedew that execrable head with holy unction, was by him expelled the country. After some years there arose from the race of former kings a very spirited youth, named John, whom vast numbers resorted to and supported. Though his first attempts were so prosperous that he had already become formidable to the tyrant, yet at length, through youthful ardor, rushing too into battle, he unfortunately and prematurely perished. After him sprang forth another youth from the royal stock, of great expectation, supported by many adherents; but even he, before many years had passed, was vanquished in battle by the tyrant on Holy Palm Sunday, and with his partisans totally destroyed. Thus, by the rod of God's fury, nearly the whole of the royal seed, as well as every native enemy, being all dispatched or banished, the great and terrific man at last, by the hand of a certain bishop, intimidated thereto by the threat of death, obtained the diadem of the kingdom with sacred unction, from the uncertain issue of a long-favored tyranny, secure, as it were, by repeated successes. The motto of his seal is said to have been as follows:
"Sverre, the great king, fierce as a lion, mild as a lamb;"

for he manifested clemency to his subjects, and paid respect to churches and monasteries.

My own notes and context:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

William Newburgh, Book Three, ch 6.

~Wille

**Fedual** · February 13, 2016, 06:33 AM

Looks great but i cant help to wonder if anyone has some material on large numbers of swedish early knights using fully mailed caparisons? Dont get me wrong, i just became interested when i saw this image

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Cavalier** · February 13, 2016, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Fedual

Looks great but i cant help to wonder if anyone has some material on large numbers of swedish early knights using fully mailed caparisons? Dont get me wrong, i just became interested when i saw this image

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

The knights certainly had full mails, but I doubt the horses were as armoured, fully covered in mail. The nobility wasn't as wealthy as their continental counterparts - Sweden really only became "rich" during the 17th century when it became a great power. But feel free to correct me if someone else has more information.

**Linke** · February 13, 2016, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Cavalier

The knights certainly had full mails, but I doubt the horses were as armoured, fully covered in mail. The nobility wasn't as wealthy as their continental counterparts - Sweden really only became "rich" during the 17th century when it became a great power. But feel free to correct me if someone else has more information.

From the 1300s Swedish nobility used imported German armour or armour produced by germans in Sweden, wich would've been up to date.

**Fedual** · February 13, 2016, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Linke

From the 1300s Swedish nobility used imported German armour or armour produced by germans in Sweden, wich would've been up to date.

But are you sure those early knights are from the 1300, i may be wrong but they look more 1100 to me

**Kjertesvein** · March 01, 2016, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by c_kahnlund

You wouldnt defeat an enemy with proper cavalry if you had none yourself.

To a degree, true. In the beginning, the Scandinavians levy was actually not that bad against cavalry. The Norwegian Leidang that would fight abroad (probably yeaoman class) showed it was able to withstand cavalry by forming a complex formations comparable to "Shiltron", but also other formations such as sheild wall, wedge, shield castle, etc. However, as we move into the 14th and later 15th century prove to be outdated.

On the other hand, the transitional period show that cavalry doesn't automatically grant you victory because other methods were employed. Most medieval armies were relatively small and hard to replenish. Commanders would normally avoid battle simply because the risk was high and the reward low. In the words of John Gillingham, War and Government in the Middle Ages, Cambridge.

Most campaigns did not end in battle because both commanders were reluctant to risk battle. This was in accord with the advice given in what is perhaps the best book ever written on medieval warfare - and one read by many medieval commanders: the De Re Militari by Vegetius. Vegetius’ advice on giving battle was quite simple: Don't. Well, you might occasionally, if you heavily outnumbered your enemy, if their morale was poor, their supplies short, if they were tired and poorly led, then in these circumstances you might, but otherwise no.

In the 35 year conflict period starting 1285 between the princes and nobility of Scandinavia, based on the chronicles, letters and German account letters, we can point to almost 6000 German (and some English) mercenaries serving in the wars for all sides. Hired in bulks of a couple of 100s to several 1000s. According to Fagerland's doctorate, the participants in the conflicts required the combined arms of the 1. The (fleet)levy; 2. fortifications; and 3. German mercenary knights to win the conflict. Most warfare consisted of one dominant part raiding the country side of the other, while the weaker party usually avoided battle by sitting in their castles. All the 3 monarchs and their proxy lords did this to each other in every imaginable alliance possible. When the Swedish duke marched his army into Oslo, the Norwegian farmers tried to relive Akershus fortress and opposed the German knights of the Swedes. The Norwegian farmers suffered 1/3 of their forces, while the Swedes returned home soon after. If you had the upper hand, pressure your opponent with armed forces and secure a diplomatic deal on your terms... if you're strong enough. That's medieval warfare in a nutshell.

In the 1309 campaign lead by the Danish king Menved and his vassal Henry II, Lord of Mecklenburg, which was noted as a big army of it's time, would plunder the hinterland for supplies and lay siege to the Swedish castles. The defending Swedish Dukes would avoid conventional field battle. They applied a scorched earth tactics and would ambush foraging parties sent by the the Danes and their German allies, always staying within reach. In addition, as Vegetius suggest to not fight on equal terms, but instead open diplomatic relations that would go no-where. All the while, the Swedes patiently waited to assemble the greater militia from Kalmar, Stockholm and 2 cogs of of their own German mercenaries. While this was going on, the danish provisions would run low as the winter approached. The Danish nobles eventually lead a mutiny, but the fortunately for the invaders the 2500 German mercenaries remained loyal to the Danish king. At this point both parties entered diplomacy and the Swedish dukes would agree to a treaty on Danish terms. This is comparable to most European warfare at the time. Levies, knights and castles. This is reflected in The King's Mirror (1270) where the chapter about siege warfare is substantially bigger than any other chapter on warfare such as ship and land combat, going to great details on what to do.

The point here is that knights were used mostly as political leverage, rather than in an abundance of field battles. The other side would sit in their castles and use guerrilla tactics against the conventional army. Sometimes the army with knights came out ahead, sometimes not. It wasn't a clear cut for the conventional army until High - Late period. During the whole medieval period, the German knights filled the demand for heavy cavalry in Scandinavia.

You cant say with a 100% certainty they were non-existant.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to deny something on the basis of unquestionable certainty. Far from it, I'm saying there is no descriptive primary sources to my knowledge of a company of couched lances on par with European standards. Whether or not this was the case back then, we'll never really know. I would love be proven wrong, but alas no such fate has befallen me.

Originally Posted by c_kahnlund

your topografy is quite different from ours

The Norwegian lowland topography is comparable to the Sweden's lowland. The saga sources of the Värmland campaign which depict the land-based Norwegian leidang are from Osloregionen and Bohuslen.

Another example where we can compare Europeans warfare to that of the Scandinavian cavalry. In the words of the English historian J.E. Morris, the Scottish forces from the events of Bannockburn (1314-1337) mobilized by horse and systematically avoided close quarter engagements, but instead dismounted as useful marksmen. This is comparable to a point in the Värmland campaign where King Haakon sent forth a company of 120 mounted archers ahead of the convoy to clear a road block/ambush. (ch 115) Dragoons if you would excuse my bastardization of the word.

~Wille

**Captain Zoran** · March 02, 2016, 07:29 AM

Great work on Sweden mate! I understand that researching this period of Sweden's history can be quite a fuss, as there are not many truly reliable sources from this period. However I believe Kjertesvein and the others are doing a magnificient job with their research. I wish to contribute though and thought I could dig up some noble coat of arms for use on shields and such. There are very few noble families apart from the Bjälbo/Eirik/Sverker families known from the early era, but in order to give more variety to shields and such, I think it fitting that these emblems could be used on atleast Knight-grade units (as most of those that became "nobles" by the Ordninance of Alsnö in 1280 were simply families who owned a set of lands and could perform feudal military service in the form that we commonly call knights)

Some noble coat of arms from the 13th to 16th Century:

Natt och Dag (Literaly Night and Day, what an innovative name... 13th Century) who are the oldest, still alive, noble family:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...tt_och_Dag.svg

Bonde (13th Century):
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonde_...cheon_1996.jpg

Carpelan (Finnish nobles, high/late era however might be used on finnish auxiliary units):
https://www.riddarhuset.se/wp/wp-con...38-243x292.jpg

Leijonhufvud (14th Century):
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leijon...ijonhufvud.svg

Stenbock (14th Century):
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stenbo..._Olofsson).svg

Jägerhorn af Spurila (Also Finnish, 15th Century):
https://www.riddarhuset.se/wp/wp-con...14-243x292.jpg

Trolle (14th Century):
https://www.riddarhuset.se/wp/wp-con...36-243x292.jpg

Ribbing (15th Century):
https://www.riddarhuset.se/wp/wp-con...15-243x292.jpg

There are lots more, however some are simply off-branches from some other families that you could use. Tell me if you want more or tell me to

off, in either way great work Slytacular!

Thread: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

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