Page 1 of 9 123456789 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 177

Thread: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

  1. #1

    Default Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden



    [FONT=times new roman][SIZE=6]
    Early Era/Tier One Units
    [SIZE=2]
    Spear Bondir
    [SIZE=3]
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Early Hirdmen
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Axe Bondir
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Huskarls
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Early Crossbowmen
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Early Knights
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Longbow Bondir
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Early Nobility
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Some quick credits

    Lucas the Benevolent for the Maciejowski Helmet
    Gothic Knight for the two-handed Dane axe
    Mandible for the hoods originally made for the Vikingr mod

    These artists and their resources can be found on Taleworlds Forums.
    Last edited by Slytacular; April 11, 2016 at 02:07 AM.

  2. #2
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Gdańsk, Poland
    Posts
    11,132

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    Very nice preview, but it looks a bit odd that Swedish cavalry uses full horse armour, while wealther nations with better horse traditions do not? ; P Also Sweden had extremly low amount of nobles, reaching something around 500 near the end of Medieval times or through XVI century.
    Last edited by KAM 2150; February 03, 2016 at 08:43 AM.
    Official DeI Instagram Account! https://www.instagram.com/divideetimperamod/
    Official DeI Facebook Page! https://www.facebook.com/divideetimperamod

  3. #3

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    Interesting. If you want ideas for units, maybe consider adding Finnish Bowmen and Light cavalry, though the second is a wee bit early given that their role was formalized in 1500s.

  4. #4
    finix's Avatar Ordinarius
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Bulgaria
    Posts
    708

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    Congratulations for the first review
    [IMG][/IMG]

  5. #5

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    @KAM, Traditions doesn't equate to armor. I don't plan to make swedish cavalry anything interesting other than almost generic with the sole purpose to function as cavalry. To put fairly, Sweden didn't have a lot of anything starting at 1212 A.D. Since this is an empire building game, I have to provide a likely kind of unit some how that would be present during Sweden's not very well documented military.

    Thanks finix, and I'll read up on the Finns part in Swedish military for High and Late Era.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    This looks great. I love those shield designs and paintings. On base of this preview Sweden seems to have a well rounded unit composition in the early era. I'm curious how nobility will be implemented as a combat force on the actual battlefield in your mod.
    EN TIBI UT SENTIAS QUAM VILE CORPUS SIT IIS QUI MAGNAM GLORIAM VIDENT
    C. MUCIUS SCAEVOLA


  7. #7

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    There was some cavalry present in Värmland and Väster/Ostergotland, but they were closer to ponies than real horses. The only real cavalry the Swedes ever had at this point was stuff imported through Denmark on individual basis and the horses they got from their future Finnish holdings which are off the map.

    Overall: I feel bad for Swedish cavalry.

  8. #8
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Gdańsk, Poland
    Posts
    11,132

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by Slytacular View Post
    @KAM, Traditions doesn't equate to armor. I don't plan to make swedish cavalry anything interesting other than almost generic with the sole purpose to function as cavalry. To put fairly, Sweden didn't have a lot of anything starting at 1212 A.D. Since this is an empire building game, I have to provide a likely kind of unit some how that would be present during Sweden's not very well documented military.
    Yes, but that is cataphract grade unit we are talking about, and their horses would be nearly useless with that kind of armour due to added weight. And yes, traditions most often equate to armour, since only very limited nations in medieval era would use that much armour on their horses. Swedish knights would most likely not use any armour or even simple barding. If you want to make them look unique then you can equip them with Nordic longswords, which they would most likely use, instead of giving sweden super heavy cavalry unit. Also in mod starting time frame, Sweden wasn't really that converted or nobles often mixed both Christian and Pagan stuff. Just adding them some nordic themed stuff would make them trully stand out while also being more accurate. Take for example swords, they were often passed from generation to generation, so in the year 1212 they would still use swords from XI century.

    Here are some nice depictions:
    http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.p...a=view;id=8122

    http://dalauppror.blogspot.com/2013/...r-knights.html

    http://dalauppror.blogspot.com/2013/...-heathens.html
    Last edited by KAM 2150; February 03, 2016 at 09:17 AM.
    Official DeI Instagram Account! https://www.instagram.com/divideetimperamod/
    Official DeI Facebook Page! https://www.facebook.com/divideetimperamod

  9. #9

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    Entirely fantastical and anachronistic. There weren't enough Knights in Sweden to even compromise true heavy cavalry, and those depictions would be basically useless in the terrain that that they'd be facing. For one, there were no Swedish Crusaders, barring the not-really-a-crusade of Finnish Crusade which never saw more than 200-500 men-at-arms fighting it out in forests.

  10. #10
    nnnm's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    UAE
    Posts
    1,236

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    there weren't enouph knights in Sweden but that was for a reason. I think it's the weather but I don't know much about Sweden but if they took france or england they won't have the same problem there. maybe u should limt cavalry units in that region or just add increaesed recruit cost in that region.



  11. #11
    Linke's Avatar Hazarapatish
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Stockholm
    Posts
    1,800

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    Dude this is amazing! Cool to see you did the bondir as not just peasants as I said, + rep and can't wait for your next faction.

    For unit names I can suggest (following your native/english mix)
    Early Nobility - Stormän/Stormen (There wasn't a early nobility, but these were the closest)
    Early Knights - (early) Svennar/Svens/Sven Knights
    For mercenaries who for most of the game were germans instead of scandinavians as earlies should be termed Knektar/Knekts, German Spear Knekts for example

    From the 1280s (With Birger and sons creating a more centralised realm) and Alsö stadga there existed a noble "knightly" caste, the Sveiner/Svenner, military part of the frälsemen (tax free men, losse nobility) who are required in the law to serve if they have a horse, Dick Harisson and other historians think it is a continuation of older practices, still armies would have been mostly mercenaries/soldiers sent to support a side in a civil war by Denmark or Norway, as proxies really. And local militias would have also been well equiped though not serving far from abroad. Sweden before 1250 was a society with no nobles formaly, just stormän, before and after most farmeres owned their soil, odal were wealthy farmers, a kind of rural middle class (relatively).
    So there existed cavalry for sure as the law says they need horses

    As for actual knights or "riddare" they could only be made for one lifetime by the king personaly, thus they mostly became the kings companions numbering dozens if not hundreds, most who would have corresponed to knights in main Europe didn't have that title but still existed (albeit smaller numbers then other countries)
    Last edited by Linke; February 03, 2016 at 09:48 AM.

  12. #12
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Gdańsk, Poland
    Posts
    11,132

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by Olligarchy View Post
    Entirely fantastical and anachronistic. There weren't enough Knights in Sweden to even compromise true heavy cavalry, and those depictions would be basically useless in the terrain that that they'd be facing. For one, there were no Swedish Crusaders, barring the not-really-a-crusade of Finnish Crusade which never saw more than 200-500 men-at-arms fighting it out in forests.
    That is what I said in all of my previous posts, but if he wants to make them look unique, I think those depictions would be more true to equipment used in Northern Europe then Byzantine/Middle East cataphract cavalry.
    Official DeI Instagram Account! https://www.instagram.com/divideetimperamod/
    Official DeI Facebook Page! https://www.facebook.com/divideetimperamod

  13. #13
    Ltd.'s Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Carpathian basin - Székelyország
    Posts
    1,137

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    Congratulations on your first preview , sly Nice units. Keep it up !

  14. #14
    Visarion's Avatar Alexandros
    Artifex

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    8,055

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    Nice

  15. #15

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    I have a deep respect for historical table-top miniatures warfare, and a lot of people that create the units for the historical wargames do know what they are creating about because they research this stuff. I've done similar research into what I can find closest to the original sources. This means stepping past the illustrations and idealistic imagery of what could have been Medieval Sweden (although I did look through the stuff including the infamous Osprey book on Medieval Scandinavian Warfare). I have a book source on my phone called "The History of the Swedes" by Eric Gustave Geijer, translated into English by J.H. Turner. Its really hard to conceive much of any troop composition from the 13th century from that book, but it really goes into detail about Birger Jarl's reforms and how he flipped Sweden from an outdated Viking-like society to a more Feudal-like society due to the reforms he enforced.

    I've tried looking up the different museums in Sweden and I can't really yield much results of anything Medieval except what is from the mass grave of Visby. There is a 12th century stamp of Karl Jove that was still in use through the 13th century and that is as close a person can get to displaying Swedish cavalry. However, that is 12th century, and not 13th century. This is why I've decided to take my own approach to what the troop composition may have been. After having some time today to jog through my memories of why I created these certain units, it is because the units correspond to when they become unlocked in the technology tree.

    Swedish knights is the last unit you unlock for tier one in the technology tree. Sweden in 1212 A.D. was right before Birger Jarl's reforms and I reflect that by creating Bondir (meaning land-owning farmers, but assume the farmers bring along their own mix of hirdmen- hired men -, sons, fathers, and lower class individuals) style units which reflect that of the old Viking like society. The more professional units like hirdmen, and crossbowmen are unlocked later in the technology tree. This is to emphasize the reformations and how outdated Sweden was during the 13th century. The reason why the Swedish knights look so heavily armoured is because they are the last unit to unlock before the transitional era starts which could mean that these tier one Swedish Knights (they represent 1300-1350) are gonna get wrecked by other faction's more advanced tier 2 knights. Sweden is going to be more of an infantry based faction, and those knights can only be unlocked in time other factions would normally unlock their knights if the player playing as Sweden only unlocks the technology necessary to unlocking knights.

    As a Kingdom of Sweden player, you're mostly going to play with the Bondir and the Swedish nobility (whom may just be a body guard unit).

  16. #16
    Kjertesvein's Avatar Remember to smile
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Miðaldir
    Posts
    6,679
    Tournaments Joined
    1
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    Looks amazing dude, I find myself leaning into the computer screen to get a good look. The huscarls, the nordic iron hat, the gambeson and the heraldry. Top notch. +1

    I'm looking forward to (high and) late Sweden.

    To be precise, the first image is not appropiate for early period, but more high-tier. I think that is ~1325 to ~1375 if I'm not mistaken.

    For mid to late 13th Century, these were the knightly requirements in Norway: http://i.imgur.com/mqUNsXa.png Those are based on the King's Mirror and Hirdskraa requirements (pretty much standard stuff with some local flavor).

    ~Wille
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













    http://imgur.com/a/DMm19
    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    This is the only forum I visit with any sort of frequency and I'm glad it has provided a home for RTR since its own forum went down in 2007. Hopefully my donation along with others from TWC users will help get the site back to its speedy heyday, which will certainly aid us in our endeavor to produce a full conversion mod Rome2.

  17. #17
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Gdańsk, Poland
    Posts
    11,132

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    I have no problems with everything you done, except that they would not use full chainmail armour barding for various reasons. That kind of armour is completly isolated from that part of Europe and it wasn't even that popular in other parts with much richer nobility.

    Like I wrote, they would probably not have any armour or even barding. I only prestented those tablet top stuff so some inspiration if you want them to stand out, but not due to historical reasons.

    My main issues with giving Sweden cataphract grade armour:
    -lack of heavy cavalry traditions
    -lack of proper horses to use that kind of armour (just like not all elephant species are able to have tower on their backs)
    -wealther knights from other European states would still not use that kind of heavy armour on superior horses
    -not enough iron to waste on full horse armour (yeah, Sweden is known for their iron, but not in those times, all cultures that had limited iron/poor quality iron, were later known for making very crafty works, like viking swords of japanase katanas, because they had to learn how to make the biggest use from inferior materials).
    -only wealthies of knights in Europe would be able to afford that heavy equipment and horse able to carry it and those early nobles are ALL using cataprhact grade armour.


    EDIT: Kjertesvein, yes, that is exactly the look I am talking about.
    Last edited by KAM 2150; February 03, 2016 at 02:24 PM.
    Official DeI Instagram Account! https://www.instagram.com/divideetimperamod/
    Official DeI Facebook Page! https://www.facebook.com/divideetimperamod

  18. #18
    Linke's Avatar Hazarapatish
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Stockholm
    Posts
    1,800

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    Quote Originally Posted by Slytacular View Post
    I have a deep respect for historical table-top miniatures warfare, and a lot of people that create the units for the historical wargames do know what they are creating about because they research this stuff. I've done similar research into what I can find closest to the original sources. This means stepping past the illustrations and idealistic imagery of what could have been Medieval Sweden (although I did look through the stuff including the infamous Osprey book on Medieval Scandinavian Warfare). I have a book source on my phone called "The History of the Swedes" by Eric Gustave Geijer, translated into English by J.H. Turner. Its really hard to conceive much of any troop composition from the 13th century from that book, but it really goes into detail about Birger Jarl's reforms and how he flipped Sweden from an outdated Viking-like society to a more Feudal-like society due to the reforms he enforced.

    I've tried looking up the different museums in Sweden and I can't really yield much results of anything Medieval except what is from the mass grave of Visby. There is a 12th century stamp of Karl Jove that was still in use through the 13th century and that is as close a person can get to displaying Swedish cavalry. However, that is 12th century, and not 13th century. This is why I've decided to take my own approach to what the troop composition may have been. After having some time today to jog through my memories of why I created these certain units, it is because the units correspond to when they become unlocked in the technology tree.

    Swedish knights is the last unit you unlock for tier one in the technology tree. Sweden in 1212 A.D. was right before Birger Jarl's reforms and I reflect that by creating Bondir (meaning land-owning farmers, but assume the farmers bring along their own mix of hirdmen- hired men -, sons, fathers, and lower class individuals) style units which reflect that of the old Viking like society. The more professional units like hirdmen, and crossbowmen are unlocked later in the technology tree. This is to emphasize the reformations and how outdated Sweden was during the 13th century. The reason why the Swedish knights look so heavily armoured is because they are the last unit to unlock before the transitional era starts which could mean that these tier one Swedish Knights (they represent 1300-1350) are gonna get wrecked by other faction's more advanced tier 2 knights. Sweden is going to be more of an infantry based faction, and those knights can only be unlocked in time other factions would normally unlock their knights if the player playing as Sweden only unlocks the technology necessary to unlocking knights.

    As a Kingdom of Sweden player, you're mostly going to play with the Bondir and the Swedish nobility (whom may just be a body guard unit).
    I agree with your approach, and also there aren't many if any sources on knights from Sweden in this period (best would be Norwegian sources I suppose).
    In my opinion there should be 3 versions of Sven Knights (sven is almost the same as a knight even though knight translates as Riddare, who were de facto bodyguards just), early (1250-1300 somewhere) like those you made, Middle/standard 1300-1400 or something with same equipment mostly but also kneepads and shoulderpads, and finaly late with contemporary European equipment (finaly caught up mostly).
    Nobles could start out as infantry early (btw it is important as I said many times to not call them nobles as those didn't exist, by law everyone was mostly "equal", call the stormen). Then they become cavalry and then can be called nobles.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    @KAM, alright, should I use padded armour instead for knights, and just remove the barded chainmail?

  20. #20
    Påsan's Avatar Hva i helvete?
    Citizen

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    the north way
    Posts
    13,916

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Kingdom of Sweden

    Yeah I think the Norwegian Kings Mirror describes padded barding as what the used in Norway. Additionally for later units, coat-of-plates came from Sweden


    Entirely fantastical and anachronistic. There weren't enough Knights in Sweden to even compromise true heavy cavalry, and those depictions would be basically useless in the terrain that that they'd be facing. For one, there were no Swedish Crusaders, barring the not-really-a-crusade of Finnish Crusade which never saw more than 200-500 men-at-arms fighting it out in forests.
    Weren't there plenty Swedish crusaders participating in the Baltic Crusades? Makes no sense to go to Jerusalem when there's heathens right across the pond.


    The Chronicle of Duke Erik
    the earliest written source materian on medieval Sweden (Sadly they did not have as many Icelandic fanboys as their norwegian cousins) describes plenty of cavalry and knights. In particular an Norwegian raiding force was completely routed by Swedish cavalry in gotland. So they had both knights and cavalry. I am not saying they had particularly good cavalry, but they did use them as the elite of their forces.
    Last edited by Påsan; February 04, 2016 at 11:15 AM.

Page 1 of 9 123456789 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •