Norse Archers Overpowered

[savage_rabbit]

Or perhaps longbows are simply underpowered. Either way there is a lot of unbalance in the ranged combat sector.

Just saying this because I just played a battle with English versus Danish. Three Danish Norse Archer units were obliterating 5 Yeoman Archer units in the initial missile combat, forcing me to assault him rather than vice versa. I determined that this is because of the huge extra defense rating on the Norse Archers, while the Yeoman Archers possess a measly one extra missile point, while costing almost an extra 200 florins. Ridiculous.

This really needs to be balanced. The longbow should be the most feared ranged weapon until gunpowder, if only for historical fidelity.

[SSLeon]

use the Retinue Longbowmen, they have better melee attack and defence.

[Hurricane]

Or perhaps longbows are simply underpowered. Either way there is a lot of unbalance in the ranged combat sector.

Just saying this because I just played a battle with English versus Danish. Three Danish Norse Archer units were obliterating 5 Yeoman Archer units in the initial missile combat, forcing me to assault him rather than vice versa. I determined that this is because of the huge extra defense rating on the Norse Archers, while the Yeoman Archers possess a measly one extra missile point, while costing almost an extra 200 florins. Ridiculous.

This really needs to be balanced. The longbow should be the most feared ranged weapon until gunpowder, if only for historical fidelity.

I agree, the Longbowmen type units should shoot much further and be more accurate than Norse Archers, although the Norse Archers should be a lot better in melee combat than Longbowmen.

[OG Grenadier]

Yes Retinue Longbowmen have the same missile stat as Yeomen, but their melee is better and they have twice the overall defensive value of Yeomen.

[OG Grenadier]

Absolutely. You know I can't wait until we can start tweaking units.

[therussian]

From what I'm hearing, the Danes are ****ing monsters. That should be tweaked by CA a lot, or at least by the modders.

[lawngnome]

Except you're overlooking the fact that Norse Archers do not possess 'armor piercing' or 'long range' abilities, meaning they are not nearly a pure archer role. They are a hybrid unit, but not even the best hybrid archer available. Dismounted Dvor? Ottoman Infantry? Much better than Norse Archers in the same role.

Longbowmen and Jannissary Archers are the best pure archers, on the other hand, and are extremely versatile in many situations, especially because of their stake abilities. Don't expect pure archers like these two to win in ranged combat since they have relatively low defense.

[XnARO]

I'd have to agree about the Danes being brutal in Med2.

I'm in my first campaign, playing English and I've certainly noticed the difference between Med1 and Med2.
:hmmm:

For example in Med1 once I'd finished getting all of England etc in my control the first factions I would always conquer first were Norway and the Danes and it was easy and it was good to bump up income quickly before going on a serious campaign.


In this my first Med 2 campaign I for some reason decided not to follow the same pattern and first just went for a stronger foot hold on the main land around Caen. I think I half heartedly tried to take on the Danes at the start but didnt have enough of a force to do the job properly, I didnt think anything of it at the time and blamed it on my weak army.


My plan was to go the long way around to the Holy Land and avoid war in Europe. I always found fighting for control of Europe too frustrating with the Pope and Excommunication and that whole Political thing. It was easier to just go around North Africa to the Holy Land and not even worry about fleets of ships, other catholic factions, crusades etc, at least not till later on.


But somehow despite trying to aim for peace in Europe its all turned ugly and I've been struggling to keep everything from turning into chaos but without that much success. Truely the dark ages.


The only faction I have managed to keep a long lasting Alliance with is Poland, who became one of the most powerful factions, almost to match England. They'd captured HRE settlements that I'd sacked after getting pissed off with HRE and then expanded alot out east. A pretty damn good Ally to have around I thought.


But recently and much to my surprise the Danes who had become my sworn enemies (mainly because I never took them seriously, never tried to be diplomatic) have suddenly all but over run them and now control a huge part of north and east europe.


At first I was quite surprised because Poland was far too strong for that to have happend and esspecially so quick, but I suspect they expanded too far east and got burned by the Mongols when they arrived on the scene.


While their armies were getting slaughtered by the Mongols the Danes must of taken the opportunity to overrun them from their unprotected rear.


This sorted of thing didnt really happen in Med1, its pretty exciting stuff.


Now I fear and loath the Danes, they have hated me for a really long time and now they are getting huge.. I hope the Turmurids burn them or there is going to be very little peace in Europe for a very long time.



More on topic, the English Retinue Longbowmen are among the best, maybe not quite as lethal as they were in Med1 but still better than most other Archer units in the game, they seem to be able to out-range almost everything. No other archer unit has been able to hit mine that wasnt already getting hit, and they damage everything with their AP arrow heads.

Also try using fire does more damage, just try to aim it at the biggest cluster of enemy units, like the center of an army as they are not as accurate but if you aim at the center of large formations the spread will still hit targets, not so good for honing in on one unit at a time.

[savage_rabbit]

Except you're overlooking the fact that Norse Archers do not possess 'armor piercing' or 'long range' abilities, meaning they are not nearly a pure archer role. They are a hybrid unit, but not even the best hybrid archer available. Dismounted Dvor? Ottoman Infantry? Much better than Norse Archers in the same role.

Longbowmen and Jannissary Archers are the best pure archers, on the other hand, and are extremely versatile in many situations, especially because of their stake abilities. Don't expect pure archers like these two to win in ranged combat since they have relatively low defense.

You mean don't expect them to win in this silly game that we play. Which of course overlooks the entire point of my post addressing what I see to be an improper design of the game.

And you'r exactly right, Dismoutned Dvor and Ottoman Infantry are insanely overpowered too (Dvor especially). It's just not the point of this post.

Just because they can't do every little thing that Longbowmen can do does not mean that Norse Archers are improperly balanced, neither does the fact that they are not the most powerful ranged unit in the game in ranged vs. ranged combat.

Also, one should not have to purchase Retinue Longbowmen for almost twice the price of Norse Archers in order to counteract them.

This game just gives no feel for how monstrously deadly the longbow truly was in the hands of a trained longbowman.

[XnARO]

I'd have to agree partly there, I say partly because damn the longbowmen are still pretty damn deadly.

I beat two professional milanese stacks with half h/bill militia, half longbowmen and 3 mortars only...

The longbowmen had used up half their ammunition by the time they'd routed 80% of the first enemy stack, I told them to hold fire and just let the Mortar rout the rest.

Then the 2nd stack came and I killed half of them with longbowmen and then charged my infantry h/bill militia for a short engagement before they routed.

[savage_rabbit]

Try doing that against a player opponent, however, with an army that is worth an equal amount of florins, and you will see vastly different results.

[ProudNerd]

use crossbows and aquebusiers.