Measuring Interest in TW: Warhammer

[Tankbustaz]

You mean the inexorable decline of this high-quality series we all love and admire? Have you been asleep since Shogun 2?

Hang on, CA added a ton of stuff to the campaign side and to a lesser extent the battle side in Attila, and followed it up with good content. I swear, this website makes you want to believe CA stabs puppies as part of the development process.

[Fallen851]

Hang on, CA added a ton of stuff to the campaign side and to a lesser extent the battle side in Attila, and followed it up with good content. I swear, this website makes you want to believe CA stabs puppies as part of the development process.

The problem is if you fire up Shogun 2, heck even Rome 1, you play a better game. CA took a huge step back with Rome 2, and the improvements made in Attila don't even put us at the point we were at in Shogun 2. That is the decline he speaks of.

I am hopeful that CA will make the correct improvements to the campaign and battles in Warhammer to push the series forward.

[Tankbustaz]

The problem is if you fire up Shogun 2, heck even Rome 1, you play a better game. CA took a huge step back with Rome 2, and the improvements made in Attila don't even put us at the point we were at in Shogun 2. That is the decline he speaks of.

I am hopeful that CA will make the correct improvements to the campaign and battles in Warhammer to push the series forward.

The shogun 2 campaign was bland in terms of mechanics personally.
it was highly polished but that was it.

[the_eye]

Updated again. Rise of the Tomb Raider and Tom Clancy's The Division are the only games showing definite upwards trends at present, the former post-release and the latter now just over three weeks from release.

[Markas]

Hang on, CA added a ton of stuff to the campaign side and to a lesser extent the battle side in Attila, and followed it up with good content.

Oh I don't disagree, but my post was a response to the Woehammerers and their attitude of suddenly realising the games they have been criticizing rabidly for two years were actually the apogee of strategy games because a genre they don't like is lined up for the next installment. It's hypocrisy that's so blatant it's almost funny.

I swear, this website makes you want to believe CA stabs puppies as part of the development process.

I know. Oh how I know. The things I have seen...

[Ichon]

The shogun 2 campaign was bland in terms of mechanics personally.
it was highly polished but that was it.

That is true but FotS wasn't bland and neither is Age of Charlemagne in terms of mechanics. However both of those are pretty much the peak of that game and personally I use them to judge the overall quality of those games since that is what I play today but I can understand evaluating those games in terms of the base game in which case the base games weren't great but neither were Rome 1 or MTW2- those only became great with mods in my opinion.

[geala]

Interesting data. The only game I'm waiting for however is Mount and Blade II. And the Enderal mod for Skyrim. The rest is a weak "maybe".

[Jasheon]

I am interested in Warhammer but not at release, i do not trust CA anymore with this bad engine. Need to wait out a few patches then maybe i will buy it.

[Strengelicher]

Used to play the hell out of MII, first vanilla, then with Stainless Steel mod. Had high expectations for Rome II, but luckily didn't preorder. Seeing the reactions, I never bought it and lost interest and trust in the series. A fantasy total war could have been great, but the Warhammer stuff is cartoonish and its "darkness" not credible to me. I don't expect the franchise to make a comeback.

Interestingly, CA has made an excellent game of a different type in the meantime: Alien Isolation. Apparently there are different studios within CA and some of them are capable of making great games with a lot of dedication. And others are not.

Might come back for a potential MIII in the future. But it would have to medieval - dark and gritty, with battles in the rain and valiant knights dying miserably in the mud. With power struggles, politics and intrigue like in Game of Thrones. Family management. And slow, deeply tactical and ultra-realistic battles. Guess we'll never see that.

[awful horror]

Warhammer's lore doesn't seem that interesting to me. I'd rather it was a mythological/fantastical take on Medieval history as a kind of alternate game mode to Medieval 3, sort of how actual events were described by chroniclers of the time.

If it turns out to be a good game then I'll probably get it. I'd be much happier if someone made a high quality Lord of the Rings mod.

[Sharpe]

I hate LOTR games. Love the books, love the films but seeing it in game form just doesn't do it for me. Doesn't feel right. I guess for me Tolkien's stuff is pretty hallowed and I hate seeing stuff done with it like Shadow of Mordor. #Elitist.

With Warhammer and it's ever changing lore you can get away with stretching the story for gameplay's sake. Shouldn't be done with Tolkien's stuff, it makes me feel dirty.

I will definitely being playing the LOTR/Hobbit soundtracks in the background of TW:W however.

[Markas]

Yeah I kinda agree, the tone just seems off and I don't think they work as well for dedicated combat games. Violence was more incidental to the books and movies rather than the complete focus on it by Warhammer (being a TT game and all).

[awful horror]

I agree with most of what both of you are saying, but I admit that I am a sucker for the unique imagery of Lord of the Rings. It is kind of a self contained story and there isn't a lot of interest in playing different sides, but that cleanness is also what makes it so appealing. I think that a lot of medieval history games tend to be kind of dry or really limited in their looks and variety. Medieval history becomes boring from a military standpoint when an author or an artist either doesn't take risks or tries too hard for a phony authenticity. I think that's why Bernard Cornwell's books are so hit and miss - some are dreadful to read while others actually flesh out the world he's writing about.

One of the reasons I like Angus McBride art so much was that he was willing to speculate a bit or to add lots of color and design which fit in with art atyles of the day. Most artists won't draw anything we don't have the exact preexisting imagery for, even though there are problems in copying medieval artworks directly.

LotR has such a visual appeal to me because it closes the gap between history and mythology just right, but mostly because it feels timeless. I don't know anything about Warhammer but take any other fantasy franchise and it very much feels like a product of its time. Even if other stories might have more interesting politics, they fall miles short when it comes to creating an interesting world.

[Sharpe]

Thing is with LOTR, the narrative is essential to the setting.

Gondor invading Mordor and sacking Barad Dur just seems... wrong.

But with Warhammer, all the factions are justified in giving each other a beating because it's completely different to LOTR. LOTR is written like a saga, Professor Tolkien's love of old English Mythology influences this highly. It's a tale within a believable world, a very rich world at that but the over-arcing narrative is still basically good vs evil. Warhammer is more grey than that, and the world is a lot more transient. I've had a read of the lore on a few Warhammer wikis and I must admit it is very interesting and fairly unique, but so much has happened in this time. The Old World isn't a setting for a story like Middle-Earth, but a backdrop for wargaming campaigns basically. This doesn't make it any less interesting.

[awful horror]

Again I don't know anything at all about Warhammer lore. Obviously a purpose designed world has advantages. I just don't think the psuedo-Tolkien brand is as interesting as the real deal or something a little more imaginative and different. The names of the characters and towns in 'greenskins' faction don't seem very promising.

[Tafatt]

Well you pretty much sum it up, you know nothing of it. Yet you certainly have an opinion of it, if you're gonna be a tradionalist at least be so from an informed stance.

[Red Dox]

Well, for a week the slogan was "Make war not love" on Segas behalf. In the ring, fighting for free DLC were
Dawn of War II [Players in the last 2 weeks: Retribution 50,145 ± 4,989 (3.05%); Chaos Rising: 14,457 ± 2,679 (0.87%); Vanilla: 39,335 ± 4,419 (1.6%)]
Company of Heroes II [Players in the last 2 weeks: 196,934 ± 9,885 (11.63%)]
Total War: Attila [Players in the last 2 weeks: 161,637 ± 8,955 (27.53%)]
and the winner is, DoW2.
http://www.makewarnotlove.com/results-final.php
(Do not forget to grab your three free game and your free Tau Commander for Last Stand)

I just mention it, because it is kinda odd that the oldest title, with the lowest playerbase, hits the most hours in playtime. "Warhammer" may still ring up a crowd, even if not expected

-----Red Dox

[213]

perfectly honest here, i think warhammer is absolutely ridiculous and silly looking. same as lord of the rings. anything that isn't at least grounded and believable, dragons, orcs, monsters, etc i just can't really pay attention to. it's like white noise to me, zero interest, negative value interest in fact.

i hope this is a trend that does not continue. i think ca feels they're running out of ideas and want to do something different and don't want to rehash anything, but trust me, ca hasn't done anything, i say this as a fan of their historically based franchise. the amount of things that can be expanded, improved, iterated, and plain revolutionized upon are too numerous to list.

in short, medieval 3 will be the greatest game ever.

[Ichon]

Medieval 3 might be fun especially with some unique Pope, Caliph, and Khan mechanics but I'd prefer a Renaissance game next as in Medieval 3 I doubt I'll play a campaign long enough to reach late units.

[HigoChumbo]

perfectly honest here, i think warhammer is absolutely ridiculous and silly looking. same as lord of the rings. anything that isn't at least grounded and believable, dragons, orcs, monsters, etc i just can't really pay attention to. it's like white noise to me, zero interest, negative value interest in fact.

i hope this is a trend that does not continue. i think ca feels they're running out of ideas and want to do something different and don't want to rehash anything, but trust me, ca hasn't done anything, i say this as a fan of their historically based franchise. the amount of things that can be expanded, improved, iterated, and plain revolutionized upon are too numerous to list.

in short, medieval 3 will be the greatest game ever.

"CA is running out of ideas" => "Medieval 3 will be the greatest game ever".

I find that kind of contradictory.



It's pretty much like asking for another World War 2 Call of Duty in order to revitalize shooters. Warhammer had a lot more potential than any historical game to try something drastically different. It's just a pity that they have chosen the ultraconservative "let's just mod Attila" path.