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Thread: Mongols

  1. #41

    Default Re: Mongols

    Haha okay i have to share this with you guys.... as you probably gathered i really HATE the Mongols (because they messed up one of my favorite campaigns with their endless spamming and
    i made it a personal vendetta to Mod them back to Ulan Bataar !)

    Anyway, i tried a new experiment...

    If you go to

    C:\Program Files (x86)\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\mods\Broken_Crescent_kingdoms2.4\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign

    Open the text file called;

    descr_ events

    You will see it contains historical events such as..

    event historic saladin_fatimids
    date 1

    event historic maimonides
    date 15

    event historic richard_cor
    date 16
    So anyway, after Nerfing their armies (reducing their unit stats, deleting entire stacks, and increasing their upkeep to silly levels like i did above) i wanted to TEST
    it and see if it will work, but that means i have to start a new campaign and wait 140 years or however long it takes the Mongols to turn up...so i made the following
    changes in that file...

    event historic saladin_fatimids
    date 1

    event historic mongol_ch
    date 2

    event historic mongol_kk
    date 3

    event historic mongol_em
    date 4

    event historic maimonides
    date 15

    event historic richard_cor
    date 16

    ----

    Result ?
    I started a new campaign as Khwarazeims and the Mongols turn up with ONE STACK on turn 8 or 9

    I couldent even find them using my spies so i had to use toggle_fow

    So my changes worked. Then i carried on and they took Samarqand by turn 13 or 14 they got another 2 stacks, so total 3 STACKs
    of Mongols. If they take more settlements i guess they will get a few more stacks.

    Anyway it was just hilarious to see old Ghenghis show with 1 army to tickle my Empire.


  2. #42

    Default Re: Mongols

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffrey of Villehardouin View Post
    I played the short Kara-Khitai campaign on normal difficulty and the Mongols appeared with 30 stacks, not with 6. I counted them with spies as soon as they spawned. I am not sure why you had only 6. Maybe there is a random number of stack generation for the initial invasion. I have started a full campaign and will see what happens.
    You wrote that you changed the Mongol script with a script from one of the previous versions of BC, so this may be why.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Mongols

    u dont have to wait.just change event on earlier date to see if it works.

  4. #44
    BesoC's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Mongols

    3 stacks are too few. Mongols should be challenging, IMHO ~20-25 stacks

  5. #45

    Default Re: Mongols

    When I edit export_descr_unit.txt, even a single parameter the game will crash at launch. What am I doing wrong?

    I've tried giving the mongols a negative kings purse to try and inhibit their steamroll. The big issue isn't their spawned armies but the fact that they can produce their units for zero upkeep turn one for little to no expense.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Mongols

    Quote Originally Posted by WeekendGeneral View Post
    When I edit export_descr_unit.txt, even a single parameter the game will crash at launch. What am I doing wrong?
    Same here.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Mongols

    Quote Originally Posted by Kavhan Isbul View Post
    You wrote that you changed the Mongol script with a script from one of the previous versions of BC, so this may be why.
    In my new campaign they turned up with 21 stacks. I guess there is a random number of stacks being generated. I also had a 12 stack invasion in a BC 2.3 campaign.

    About the crashes with editing the EDU, one possibility is that you deleted some empty spaces. The file has to be read by a computer and there are sometimes issues with bad formatting, if you backspace too far. Another possibility is that you may be saving your new file in the wrong format, like rtf or xml or whatever.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Mongols

    Quote Originally Posted by mattsm84 View Post
    While we wait for Byzantine Boy to make an official patch, maybe its not a bad idea for somebody to work on a submod because he seems to have a lot on his plate right now. If it works well, he could use some of the work done by somebody else to come out with a new patch faster.

    I was thinking about a possible submod last night and I wanted to know what you guys thought. It makes sense that they're units should have minimal or no upkeep because they have to be a horde for a little while at the start, but this causes balance issues later in the game. One possible idea is to restrict their ability to recruit new units. There are a couple of different things that could probably be done here: their faction specific units could be made trainable in fewer place; they could be made unable to train faction specific units at all; or the number of turns before these units become available or even simply the cost could be increased. What do you guys think about this?

    I would prefer to up the number of turns before new mongol units become available to something like 15 turns or so. But I could see that causing the opposite problem, where before they had too many stacks rolling over everything in sight, they might end up have too few stacks to really impact the game. But then I think that there are two things that could be done in this case. First, make more low level native units available to the mongols. Historically, Mongol armies had a small core of Mongolian troops and were augmented by levies from areas that they'already conquered and by allied forces. Most of the Mongol army at the Sack of Baghdad for example were Georgian, Armenian, Turkic or Persian as an example. Making lower tier units available would hopefully help them fill out their stacks in game too.

    One final thing that could be done might be to create more smaller trigger events for them. Like have a few stacks spawn in 1216 in the territory of the Kara-Khitan, then have the big spawn event trigger in 1219, and then a few more smaller spawning events between 1223 and 1258. While I'm pretty sure I know how or could figure out how to do the first two, this one is a little beyond me.

    Anyway, and thoughts opinions or feedback?
    my SGZ Submod seems to have inadvertently disabled the Mongol invasion. I'm at turn 301 and no sign of them despite a warning event message at round 150.
    Classical World - overhaul mod for Hegemony 3 , Clash of The Ancients. The Real Time Grand Strategy equivalent of Total War
    https://www.moddb.com/mods/classical-world-5

  9. #49

    Default Re: Mongols

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffrey of Villehardouin View Post
    In my new campaign they turned up with 21 stacks. I guess there is a random number of stacks being generated. I also had a 12 stack invasion in a BC 2.3 campaign.

    About the crashes with editing the EDU, one possibility is that you deleted some empty spaces. The file has to be read by a computer and there are sometimes issues with bad formatting, if you backspace too far. Another possibility is that you may be saving your new file in the wrong format, like rtf or xml or whatever.
    I've tried the campaign script you provided from BC 2.3, it always generates 21 stacks when in play with rest of 2.4. The base 2.4 campaign script will generate 7 stacks upon the first turn of invasion.

    The core issue of 2.4 is that the mongol roster had to large a recruitment area and their units were functionally free with fast build times. They in effect zerg rush the map with elite units its not much fun. However when compared to what the mongols were like in 2.3 this build is a success as that invasion usually collapsed against the first jihad called against it their failure stemmed from being unable to build any units as far as I can tell.

    I think after several failed attempts I've almost made the mongols a enjoyable invasion now. I've bumped up their build times, unit cost and upkeep to reasonable levels. I've restricted their recruitment of mongol troops to secret resource kara khitan areas I'm considering expanding it to the volga bolgars as well to encourage expansion in that area. To balance this change I've given them acess to all AOR units and given them more armies that are spawned as there empire grows to around 20 regions.

    So far I've found them to be a challenge but not impossible.

  10. #50

    Default Re: Mongols

    On second thought, the Mongol spam may have nothing to do with the campaign script but simply with the fact that the Mongol units have 0 upkeep. The lines with upkeep have been quoted out with a semi-colon. If you replace the lines without upkeep with the lines with upkeep in the export_describe_units file, that might fix the problem and it would be savegame compatible.

    Another problem I had with the Mongols is that they do not attack the human player if he is stronger when they spawn. They may attack some small unit or Samarkand but they will walk off next turn. In such a case it would be better if they can capture settlements belonging to an AI faction to strengthen themselves further and it will be easier for them to capture something somewhere, if they are not too limited about which settlements can be target settlements.
    Last edited by Geoffrey of Villehardouin; May 21, 2016 at 07:49 AM.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Mongols

    Thank you to Geoffrey of Villehardouin for the script fix. I'm playing the ERE and the Mongol invasion is in full swing with hundreds of stacks (or at least so it seems). I'll try the patch script, and start a new campaign.

    While the citadel at Dvin has broken wave after wave of Mongol assaults, the garrison is getting as tired as I am of them.

    How would I change the upkeep cost? to try to save the game I am in?
    Last edited by Daerandir; August 09, 2016 at 12:26 PM.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Mongols

    WTF guys you should look at this ha ha it's funny
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails kingdoms 2016-08-11 21-52-15-583.jpg   kingdoms 2016-08-11 21-52-20-569.jpg  

  13. #53
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Mongols

    Quote Originally Posted by fir1996 View Post
    WTF guys you should look at this ha ha it's funny
    fir, have you used in the game the Buff and Shine submod?

  14. #54

    Default Re: Mongols

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    fir, have you used in the game the Buff and Shine submod?
    No I haven't

  15. #55

    Default Re: Mongols

    Quote Originally Posted by fir1996 View Post
    No I haven't
    Without tooting my own horn, Buff and shine makes the mongol invasion gameplay great. Their more of a threat than in BC2.3 where they used to fizzle out after 20 or so turns but don't zerg rush with unlimited units. There's a host of other little changes that I think improve it but nothing to dramatic.

  16. #56

    Default Re: Mongols

    Quote Originally Posted by Daerandir View Post
    Thank you to Geoffrey of Villehardouin for the script fix. I'm playing the ERE and the Mongol invasion is in full swing with hundreds of stacks (or at least so it seems). I'll try the patch script, and start a new campaign.

    While the citadel at Dvin has broken wave after wave of Mongol assaults, the garrison is getting as tired as I am of them.

    How would I change the upkeep cost? to try to save the game I am in?
    Open the edit_describe_unit file in data with a text editor and find the Mongol units. Somewhere near the end of each unit there is a line with the unit costs. One has upkeep but has been quoted out (with a ; ) the other one does not have upkeep. upkeep is 0. Quote out the one that does not have upkeep and remove the ; from the line that has upkeep. You have to do this for all the Mongol units. Replace the old file with the new file. Maybe you can call the old file export_describe_unit_original and keep it as a backup in case you make a mistake.

  17. #57

    Default Re: Mongols

    IMHO mongols are still too owerpowered. With the last release i've just noticed from the EDU the addition of an insignificant strat cost per unit. By that, STOP: indeed very few changes have been made in order to stop their wearying supremacy in this mod. Still too stacks, still spamming over and everywhere ( moreover they can still recruit everywhere and on a foolish rate considering that their cavalry unit, expecially mounted anchers, are huge per slot - 160 - ), till you reach a point during the campaign, when you start to fight lots of battles, turn by turn, entering an endless downfall ( or steadystate only if you are so lucky to encounter them early since their appearance ).

    I started a ERE campaign, H/H, and towards 1260 a.d. i had smashed away KOJ, Ayyubids, and turks. I raised 25-30 stacks c.ca ( mostly made of elite units ) with 100000 income p/t but when mongols started to attacking me ( in 20-30 years they had, i cannot believe to what i saw, conquered the half of the entire map, with an army 3 TIMES larger than mine, mostly made of heavy cavarly and mounted archers ). In 10 years of balanced battles ( more or less 50-55, which i often won, but loosing many men by their * horsemen and, above all, an entire week in front of my PC ) now i am with 10-15 stacks ( my replenish rate is obviously lower than the a.i.'s one ), while mongols are still there, fresh as roses, as if i had done NOTHING . So, predicting the rest of an already seen epilogue, i had to abandon my campaign. Again.
    Last edited by sftonix; September 20, 2016 at 09:09 AM.

  18. #58
    Roger II's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Mongols

    I agree, the Mongols are still to strong.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Mongols

    I agree with sftonix. For my next campaign I will have to make significant changes to edb to reduce spam rate because otherwise they still win.

  20. #60

    Default Re: Mongols

    I have some frustrations with newest 2.42 release, one of them is that mongol spam hasn't been adequately addressed. I found in my submod restricting the recruitment of the mongol units to Bolgar and Khitan regions whilst giving them a recruitment time of other factions left them dangerous but beatable.

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