Revolt CTD Fix, Please test and report back

[florin80]

Salvor Hardin has made this fix for the revolt CTD in RTRPE. For those of you who do not know, the revolt CTD means that when certain cities try to revolt there is a CTD which pretty much put an end to your campaign if you are not able to stop that city from revolting. There is a whole thread for that here at twc. In that thread a solution has been proposed by Marcus Caelius in post#128. Although it corrected a clear mistake and it solved the problem to some extent it seems it did not solve it 100% as Marcus Caelius also said. So, Salvor has found that when the city revolts sometimes the governor building enabling the recruitment of the slave units is damaged and the recruitment is not possible thus resulting the CTD. So he created a new building (the slave recruitment) and made it hinterland, so that it cannot be damaged. And he enabled the recruitment of all the slave units there. This building is invisible. Salvor tested it in a campaign, but he couldn`t make the rebels damage a rebelling settlement's governor's building so it`s not clear exactly to what extent is the CTD fixed. But, the corrections made are necesasry and the idea for the building makes perfect sense so I decided to make it available as a hotfix. Please test it and report back. Also, I have to stress that this hotfix is not save game compatible.

Another note: This is for RTRPE v1.7. It was based on the files from the RTRPE v1.7 beta patch.


And place the "data" folder inside the "Rome - Total War" folder. You will be asked if you want to overwrite the existing one. Say yes.

You might want to make a backup of the following files(just in case you decide to revert the changes):

export_buildings (in "data/text")
descr_strat (in "data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign")
export_descr_buildings (in "data")
export_descr_buildings_enums (in "data")

Credits go to:
Salvor Hardin for making this hotfix
Marcus Caelius for coming out with the solution mentioned above
and all the posters from that thread who reported the problem and contributed to the solution found.

[Leão magno]

Great news, congratulations Salvor Hardin and Marcus Caelius !

[ecc]

Great news, congratulations Salvor Hardin and Marcus Caelius !

Wonderful! Kudos to everyone for a great job

[CiusFortius]

Now if only we could do the same for the take settlement CTD! Well done to the team on figuring this one out though!

[florin80]

As I said in the first post, I need confirmation that this is a 100% fix for the revolt CTD. It does correct two very clear problems, but I still need people confirming that they didn`t encountered that CTD anymore.

[Furin]

I have played multiple campaigns with the fix, with romans, bactrians and gauls and let multiple cities revolt on purpose. Not a single CTD, troups got ejected like they should and cities got the slave troups as intended. Sorry for the late feedback.

[Salvor Hardin]

Thanks to all for the feedback. I must inform you that, although this fix solves the rebellion CTD when the settlement revolts to the slaves, there are still some crashes due to "loyalist" rebellions. I.e: revolts that give the settlement to the faction the settlement is loyal to.

Nikollai (master modder), Florin and myself are currenty working on a fix for this CTD too. As soon as we have any new information, or fix, we will let you know.

[Sinuhet]

Thanks to all for the feedback. I must inform you that, although this fix solves the rebellion CTD when the settlement revolts to the slaves, there are still some crashes due to "loyalist" rebellions. I.e: revolts that give the settlement to the faction the settlement is loyal to.

Nikollai (master modder), Florin and myself are currenty working on a fix for this CTD too. As soon as we have any new information, or fix, we will let you know.

Hi!

I have a huge interest on the all teories behind this bug, because I have achieved a similar pattern of REBELS (not brigands mostly) CTDs during its turn. It has very random pattern on the first sight similarly like it was described in your excelllent discussion form the autumn. Also, I ahve not stated ti clearly here in this post ... I mean the same bug in MTW2 after modding the game ... I have a suspicion on the something else then damaged core building however. Maybe altered culture for core building to another one than it is coded in some script file or even hardcode??? Or win conditions??? I dont have in my investigations a feeling that there must be conflict which is caused by damage of the building. Core building part of your theory I cannot rule out. But I cannot rule out also that it is unrelated thing to your problem also ... In every case, thanks for nice moments of intelectual adventure during reading of your origianl thread on this famous issue ..... And now, wher is a solution for it, I am not able to live with it further .....

Bye Sinuhet

[MasterOfNone]

I think a lot of us have an eye on the loyalist revolt CTD.

Good luck. All my tests have drawn a blank but Nikolai is aware of all this as is Makanyane - and EB also is aware of the issue.

[Furin]

Could the reimplementation of a peasent unit available to all factions and recruitable with a town center or the invisible town center change anything? Just a shot in the dark really.

[MasterOfNone]

Yes, that will block the CTD and variations on those exist or will exist in these mods - but I'm more interested in *why* it happens in the first place

[AngryTitusPullo]

Regarding the loyalist revolt, is it because naturally when one conquered a province they will destroy all natives auxilia buildings for example. With the inability to recruit it's own troops (due to AOR) makes loyalist revolt causing CTD ?

Might making auxilia undestroyable going to help ?

[Sinuhet]

Regarding the loyalist revolt, is it because naturally when one conquered a province they will destroy all natives auxilia buildings for example. With the inability to recruit it's own troops (due to AOR) makes loyalist revolt causing CTD ?

Might making auxilia undestroyable going to help ?

But I have not destructed anything in my campaign in modded MTW2 and I obtain very similar pattern of superficial looking of the error. .... I say superficiallook, because I am now going to the opinion after thinking about all this in my and other mods that it will be some "collection" of errors with high probability, but they ahve similar looking "CTD" phase, not the cause of it. There could be something in hardcode that when one create an inner conflict, the game will genrate 1. directly CTD, 2. indirectly CTD in some later phase of the game. As for the latter alternative, I imagine it such an error lets say during "faction Number 6" turn in row of factions during AI turns, but the routine for genrating the error (or trying to slve the conflict) is lasting relatively long and it could be working only in momnets when the AI is not doing something during the turn of the next factions.

(Similar behaviour you can see if you start MediavelShell and will write commands into it during AI doing turns of AI factions... The shell is freezed, the is working in moment of changing the AI faction, then again freeze and then again is working, till the slaves/rebels turn. Then the shell is working relatively more continuosly during rebel turn from some reasons, maybe are calculations performed for slaves much more simple and by this fact there is more capacity to genrate the error till the end ...)

This my theory could explain 1, the "randomness" of CTDs as for object which will "generate" them, 2. the fact that if you restart the game after CTD, you will not give CTD everytime in the same point of game.

Also, I am not sure exactly if your error is not during Human player actionss only. Becaue then is my problem quite unrelated to the one of yours. I ahve obtained the CTDs only during the turns of AI factions with some relation to rebels (atacking the rebel city, contact with rebel character in campaign map etc.), and mainly during turns of rebels ....

Then could be not only causes differnt but also the sueprficaila look was my apporach as for reading your threads realted to this bug, such the bias from my side ....

Bye Sinuhet

[MasterOfNone]

The circumstances which cause it to occur are known but the underlying reason is not. The loyalist revolt CTD does *not* occur because no troops are available (that merely made the problem more apparent) because the game can loyalist revolt to (so-called) empty garrisons. It does not always do this however hence the needed recruitment line standing in as a CTD blocker through an indestructible. (applying indestructability to buildable buildings however is probably not a good idea).

I have found that removing all mercs from merc pools also solves the problem (merc availability for hire being one of the conditions necessary for the CTD to occur) - but that's a little drastic

Sinuhet,

According to my test condition for guaranteed CTD at loyalist revolt (AI or local faction) are:

1. no recruitment buildings in settlement for faction revolt to go to
2. no garrison of occupier in settlement
3. mercs available for hire in region

I think the CTD can occur even when number 2 is not true, but have not tested - Makanyane says it occurs less when 2 is false.

You can test these conditions in vanilla. Just comment out the peasant lines for any faction in EDB in any government building and then go and attack a settlement of that level of that faction in-game - destroy all the recruitment buildings (if any) and then do everything you can to get it revolt (may need to remove garrison). Test with mercs and without mercs available for hire.

[Sinuhet]

The circumstances which cause it to occur are known but the underlying reason is not. The loyalist revolt CTD does *not* occur because no troops are available (that merely made the problem more apparent) because the game can loyalist revolt to (so-called) empty garrisons. It does not always do this however hence the needed recruitment line standing in as a CTD blocker through an indestructible. (applying indestructability to buildable buildings however is probably not a good idea).

I have found that removing all mercs from merc pools also solves the problem (merc availability for hire being one of the conditions necessary for the CTD to occur) - but that's a little drastic

Sinuhet,

According to my test condition for guaranteed CTD at loyalist revolt (AI or local faction) are:

1. no recruitment buildings in settlement for faction revolt to go to
2. no garrison of occupier in settlement
3. mercs available for hire in region

I think the CTD can occur even when number 2 is not true, but have not tested - Makanyane says it occurs less when 2 is false.

You can test these conditions in vanilla. Just comment out the peasant lines for any faction in EDB in any government building and then go and attack a settlement of that level of that faction in-game - destroy all the recruitment buildings (if any) and then do everything you can to get it revolt (may need to remove garrison). Test with mercs and without mercs available for hire.

Lets say that we have two different problems. I assume this because these conditions are not necessary for my MTW2 CTDs. So, I am sorry taht I am cluttering your thread with my own probelm, but I think taht I could give you soem otehr angle of view from my perspective.

Why this? Because I assume that this fix is not the full solution for RTR PE, what I have read - it is only diminishing the apperance of the results caused by some thing which is hidden and is still there further. And because we have caommon one important thing - it is somehow related to slave faction. Otherwise we have different causes of all this, lets say the more probable situation right now.

I will try to keep my thinking in the frame of the common things only:

Ad 3. Mercenaries - this should be related to the design of rebel armies in descr_rebels_factions.txt file. I dont know if it is also in RTW 1.5 from top of my head, but I think that in BI it is there already, and it is in MTW2 100%. In vanilla MTW2 and I assume that also in all mods till yet, there is always some "mix" of "unique" rebel faction units, and the universally usable mercenary units (which are defined in EDU, I assume from top of my head, by the approach that they ahve some special flag in special abilites row, and that they are defined fro all factions - this is maybe the reason why they are in vanilla in rebel factions armies designs - the CA has used them from reason of "optimalisation" of development - they want quick solution, but not already in every case the most robust one as for minor tweaks and the most universal one as for eventual major changes.) This solution is working fine till the time you wolud not start to mess with the all settings in various files and by this you dont change the basic design to such extent, that it is not then within the range of stability conditions ....

This colud be expalnation why you ahve mercenaries as a condition sine qua non. I assume that it is valid till the time when these mercenaries are invloved in definion of rebel armies. When I say here rebel, I mean loyalist in your language (I dont mean brigands with special subgroup of them in mTW2 heretics and witches). I colud admit that it is necessary condition also for my problem....

Ad 1. recruitemnt buildings - in this we have different experience with our problems. But I wolud highlight here my previous thoughts on this - what is a role of culture of the building compared to the owner faction culture and the "grounder" faction culture (i.e. the falg defined in descr_ regions and descr_campaign related to culters, till yet have been discussed factions only ...). Is ther relly necessary to ahve the core building destroyed or only of somewhat diferent culture then it sholud be defined?

Ad 2. It is such straightforward way - less garrison, higher probability of loyalist revolt, higher probability of CTD. Or do you mean some more abscure thing??? Smething else in this point is hidden???

Bye Sinuhet

[makanyane]

Sinuhet,

Ad 2. It is such straightforward way - less garrison, higher probability of loyalist revolt, higher probability of CTD. Or do you mean some more abscure thing??? Smething else in this point is hidden???

I found having a garrison in the city even of just one unit when it rebelled reduced substantially the occurance of the CTD. It wasn't that the city rebelled less frequently (though that would obviously also be true) but that for each time a rebellion was forced to occur if there was a garrison in the city (and with the other conditions met) I only CTD'd once in about 30 loyalist revolts. When there was no garrison present I CTD'd on all but one revolt.

Found a post in the thread linked to in 1st post that seems to bear this out; post#138

We've hit this CTD in the big PBM we are running over at the Org (RTRPE MN 1.5):

http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=67616

Editing the EDB as Cheexsta suggested unfortunately did not work. However, leaving single units in the potentially rebellious towns did seem to do the trick. Thanks to Lucjan for discovering this.

there's a couple of other posts earlier about using the create_unit cheat to get past CTD but that's not clear (to me) if they meant just one unit to be evicted or enough units to stop rebellion.

[MasterOfNone]

Although I did do a test in vanilla with a garrison which blocked the CTD I am not aware of any such result in my own mod; just checked and got a ctd with garrison present in city.

Sinuhet, it is no more my thread than your's Your Civil Rebellions may be a result of the same (let us not hope hardcoded) problem but my only problem with rebellions has been bad coding on my part.

[Salvor Hardin]

Sinuhet,
there's a couple of other posts earlier about using the create_unit cheat to get past CTD but that's not clear (to me) if they meant just one unit to be evicted or enough units to stop rebellion.

That would be the easiest solution. Any time that a settlement is revolting (I think that I have seen the conditional) the script creates some multi-faction (merc or AOR) units to reduce the rebellion risk. It is not an elegant solution, as it does not go to the core of the problem and would require, of course, the addition of a show_me script to mods that do not have it .

By the way, I am very thankful to the all-star team that has gathered here to provide a solution for this annoying problem.

[milns]

Is this why my game CDT when I have sacked 2 gallic citys, destroyed all buildings I could and left them revolt? Or there is some other issue why the game should CDT in 252 BC.
EDIT
It seems that is the reason, because the warlords hall is demaged and I do not have any troops in city... So is there any cheat or somethig so I cold get some unit in there so my game does't CDT? And also I asume this fix isn't working for me

[Furin]

Do you have the fix installed? I am asking because since I installed it i never ever got a CTD again and I destroy huge tracks of land and let them revolt on purpose all over the map. Whenever one of my generals becomes 50 he grabs mercs and ghetto troups and butchers whatever he can find, so far only a few leaders have died peacefully .

All cities seem to revolt to the slave faction though, I also have never seen a "loyalist" revolt again since I installed the patch.

Anyhow, to cheat your CTD away you can do multiple things, either use the create_unit cheat to get a garrison (create_unit "city" "unitname" <---- as in edu), alternatively decrease the city population with add_population -x or use process_cq to quickly build some happiness buildings.