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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Heroin

    Give addicts heroin, says officer

    Howard Roberts said prescribing heroin to criminals would cut crime
    Heroin should be prescribed to drug addicts to curb crime, the deputy chief constable of Nottinghamshire has said at a drugs conference.
    Howard Roberts told an Association of Chief Police Officers' conference in Manchester the idea should be assessed.

    He said the treatment would cost £12,000 a year per addict but added that drug users steal property valued at an average of £45,000 a year.

    The idea is being piloted in London, the South East and North of England.

    'Terrible consequences'

    "At the moment across the country we see levels of burglary, robbery and murder being committed by drug-fuelled addicts who are doing so in order to get the money to buy the drugs," Mr Roberts told the conference.

    "One of the things I have found is that as a treatment it has been highly effective in actually helping to reduce crime.

    "We've seen good levels of falls in drug-related acquisitive crime.

    "However, there is still a considerable problem and what I am suggesting is that we need to explore, as part of a treatment programme, the prescribing of heroin to addicts in order to take them out of the illegal market."

    Q&A: Giving addicts heroin

    He added: "Of course, getting people off drugs altogether must be the objective.

    "But I do believe that we have lived with the terrible consequences of relatively uncontained addiction for far too long.

    "If we are to make a greater impact we need to fundamentally address the method of operation of the criminal market-place for heroin."

    Improve treatment

    The manager of a Nottinghamshire-based support service for families of drug users supported the police chief's call.

    "I'm delighted that police are taking drug treatment options more seriously and have been doing so over the last few years," said Nina Dauban, manager of Mansfield-based Hetty's.

    "In the past police have been forced to go down the enforcement and criminal justice route that doesn't always solve the problem.

    "There is a lot of criminality around drugs, reducing the level of criminality is really important in improving treatment for addicts.

    "All tribute to him saying this. It is typical of Nottinghamshire Police not to be frightened to speak about their convictions.

    "We're not here to win a popularity contest - we're out to improve services for drug users."

    Martin Barnes, chief executive of drugs charity DrugScope, said: "There is compelling evidence that heroin prescribing, although more expensive than some forms of drug treatment, is cost-effective in reducing drug-related crime and other costs to communities."

    Nicola Metrebian, from the charity Action on Addiction, said they were doing research which would "compare the effectiveness of injectable methadone and injectable heroin to oral methadone" for a group of hard to treat heroin users.

    In the Department of Health pilots, 300 to 400 drug users receive heroin for their addiction.

    Similar schemes in Holland and Switzerland reported some users turning away from crime.



    THE WAR ON DRUGS

    That is of course what it is from a certain mindset, it is a war against an evil substance. The whole term was coined to be more appealing to the public, prohibition was to bland. The connotations given to it and the ensuing propoganda that has indoctrinated the masses have given any idea of a utiliterian solution a distinct feel that people are collaborating or giving in to criminals.


    "Giving in to criminals"


    The brutal truth is that heroin users exist and will always exist. As long as they do, and we have proven an unremarkable inability to stop it, they create a vast proportion of crime and fill massive amounts of jail space. Soemthing we in Britain have a particular problem with. Now if people could get over themselves and give in to the fact that prohibition increases usage and increases the criminalisation of users and therfore the War on Drugs is giving in to the criminals.

    We are actually creating a black market, funding organised crime and giving them tremendous profits. We create people like Pablo Escabar. If having heroin so readily available is such a bad thing and the war on drugs a good thing how is that I can go out and find a heroin deal with in twenty minutes.


    COST


    Just to focus on a couple of those points look at what heroin costs a society from the distrubution process to the end byproducts of heroin use.

    1. First of all we have criminal gangs who are highly organised bringing drugs into the market.

    2. The police in the war on drugs.
    ( I can only imagine how much the USA spends on it, wow staggering somewhere in the region of $20 billion I suspect. )

    3. Addicts responsible for up to 50-60% of the crime in the UK, constant reoffendors who may steal up to 45000 pounds to fund a 12000 pound a year habit.

    4. The jailing which costs 23000 pounds a year.

    5. Rehabilitation, court and legal costs of the users when they commit crimes.

    6. The treatment of the various infections that are endemic in Heroin taking. Infections, diseases, overdoses, death and well they are listed in detail below in gruesome detail.

    7. The cost in finance to the victims of the crime and the increases in insurance costs that go hand in hand with the relative criminal acts due to claims from victims.

    8. The cost in police manpower to take care of said crime.


    USAGE


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin

    Heroin is also widely (and usually illegally) used as a powerful and addictive drug that produces intense euphoria, which often disappears with increasing tolerance. It is thought that heroin's popularity with recreational users, compared to morphine or other opiates, comes from its somewhat different perceived effects.[7] This in turn comes from its high lipid solubility provided by the two acetyl groups, resulting in a very rapid penetration of the blood-brain barrier after use. Heroin can be taken or administered in a number of ways, including snorting and injection. It may also be smoked by inhaling the vapors produced when heated from below (known as "chasing the dragon").

    Many users in the United Kingdom dissolve the drug together with crack cocaine in a so-called "speedball" or "snowball", which is injected intravenously. This causes an even more intense rush but is more dangerous than heroin alone because the mixture of short-acting stimulant with longer-acting depressant increases the risk of overdosing on one or both drugs. Cocaine is an irritant to all bodily tissues causing eventual necrosis at any site with which it is in frequent contact. Because crack must be acidified with extra citric acid or vitamin C to allow it to dissolve in water, worse vein damage may result than from injecting heroin alone.



    CRIME

    http://www.parliament.the-stationery...t/30428w55.htm

    House of Commons Hansard Written Answers for 28th April 2003

    Mr. Bercow: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what percentage of recorded crime in the Buckingham constituency was drug-related in (a) 2000, (b) 2001 and (c) 2002. [108515]



    Mr. Bob Ainsworth: Recorded crime figures include statistics on drugs offences, such as possession, and on acquisitive crimes, such as burglary, but do not record whether the latter are related to an offender's drug habits.

    However, the New English and Welsh Arrestee Drug Abuse Monitoring (NEW-ADAM) research programme, which involves interviewing and drug testing those arrested by the police, confirms a link between drug misuse and crime, although the conclusions do not relate specifically to Buckingham. Analysis of the data from the first eight sites in the survey, collected during 1999–2000, shows that 65 per cent. of arrestees provided a urine sample that tested positive for one or more illegal drugs. The analysis also shows that up to 29 per cent. of arrestees tested positive for opiates (including heroin) and/or cocaine (including crack).

    As a guide to the proportion of crime that is drug-related, analysis of the NEW-ADAM self-report data indicates that while only 21 per cent. of non-drug using arrestees reported having previously offended in the past 12 months, this figure rises to 75 per cent. for those arrestees who use heroin and/or cocaine/crack. Moreover, while users of both heroin and cocaine/crack represented just under one quarter of all arrestees interviewed, they were responsible for more than three fifths of all the illegal income reported.

    In support of this, 55 per cent. of arrestees who reported using one or more drugs in the last 12 months and committing one or more acquisitive crimes, acknowledged a link between their drug use and their offending behaviour. This proportion rose to 78 per cent. for arrestees who said they had used heroin and cocaine/crack.


    MEDICAL PROBLEMS


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin


    Risks of non-medical use:

    Overdose, possibly causing death

    For intravenous users of heroin, the use of non-sterile needles and syringes and other related equipment leads to the risk of contracting blood-borne pathogens such as HIV and hepatitis, as well as the risk of contracting bacterial or fungal endocarditis and possibly Venous sclerosis
    Poisoning from contaminants added to "cut" or dilute heroin

    Chronic constipation

    Many countries and local governments have begun funding programs that supply sterile needles to people who inject illegal drugs in an attempt to reduce these contingent risks and especially the contraction and spread of blood-borne diseases. The Drug Policy Alliance reports that up to 75% of new AIDS cases among women and children are directly or indirectly a consequence of drug use by injection.

    Depending on drug interactions and numerous other factors, death from overdose can take anywhere from several seconds to several hours. An overdose is immediately reversible with an opioid antagonist injection. Heroin overdoses can occur due to an unexpected increase in the dose or purity or due to diminished opiate tolerance. However, many fatalities reported as overdoses are probably caused by interactions with other depressant drugs like alcohol or benzodiazepines.[12]

    The LD50 for a person already addicted is prohibitively high, to the point that there is no general medical consensus on where to place it. Several studies done in the 1920s gave addicts doses of 1,600–1,800 mg of heroin in one sitting, and no adverse effects were reported. This is approximately 160–180 times a normal recreational dose. Even for a non-addict, the LD50 can be credibly placed above 350 mg.

    Street heroin is of widely varying and unpredictable purity. This means that an addict may prepare what they consider to be a moderate dose while actually taking far more than intended. Also, relapsing addicts after a period of abstinence have tolerances below what they were during active addiction. If a dose comparable to their previous use is taken an overdose often results.A risk of aquiring heroin illigally

    A final source of overdose in addicts comes from place conditioning. Heroin use, like other drug abuse behaviors, is highly ritualized. While the mechanism has yet to be clearly elucidated, it has been shown that longtime heroin users, immediately before injecting in a common area for heroin use, show an acute increase in metabolism and a surge in the concentration of opiate-metabolizing enzymes. This acute increase, a reaction to a location where the addict has repeatedly injected heroin, imbues the addict with a strong (but temporary) tolerance to the toxic effects of the drug. When the addict injects in a different location, this place-conditioned tolerance does not occur, giving the addict a much lower-than-expected ability to metabolize the drug. The user's typical dose of the drug, in the face of decreased tolerance, becomes far too high and can be toxic, leading to overdose.benefits would be had from legalised sanitised regulated shooting galleries

    A small percentage of heroin smokers may develop symptoms of leukoencephalopathy. This is believed to be caused by an uncommon adulterant that is only active when heated. Symptoms include slurred speech and difficulty walking. Contrary to popular rumor, aluminum foil probably has nothing to do with the development of leukoencephalopathy in heroin users
    Fatal viral infection



    NEEDLE EXCHANGES


    But despite the immediate public health benefit of needle exchanges, some see such programs as tacit acceptance of illicit drug use. The United States does not support needle exchanges federally by law, and although some state and local governments do support needle exchange programs, they continue to face harassment by police in most areas. Needle exchanges have been instrumental in arresting the spread of HIV/AIDS in many communities with a significant heroin using population[citation needed], Australia being a leader due to its early inception of needle exchanges. Needle exchange programs have also been attributed to saving the public significant amounts of tax dollars by preventing medical costs which would have been required otherwise for the treatment of diseases spread through the practice of sharing and reusing needles.



    Withdrawal


    Now comes the scary part for trying to see into a heroin users mind. Painful withdrawal symptoms can begin within six hours of the last dose.

    Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin

    The withdrawal syndrome from heroin may begin starting from within 6 to 24 hours of discontinuation of sustained use of the drug; however, this time frame can fluctuate with the degree of tolerance as well as the amount of the last consumed dose. Symptoms may include: sweating, malaise, anxiety, depression, persistent and intense penile erection in males (priapism), extra sensitivity of the genitals in females, general feeling of heaviness, cramp-like pains in the limbs, yawning and lacrimation, sleep difficulties, cold sweats, chills, severe muscle and bone aches not precipitated by any physical trauma, nausea and vomiting, diarrhea, goose bumps, cramps, and fever. Many addicts also complain of a painful condition, the so-called "itchy blood", which often results in compulsive scratching that causes bruises and sometimes ruptures the skin leaving scabs. Abrupt termination of heroin use causes muscle spasms in the legs of the user (restless leg syndrome). Users taking the "cold turkey" approach (withdrawal without using symptom-reducing or counteractive drugs) are more likely to experience the negative effects of withdrawal in a more pronounced manner.


    There is a severe problem with Methadone. While it takes away the physical cravings it does not remove the craving for it, and it is very addictive creating its own problems. Methadone treatment has shown to be relatively ineffective in reducing our drug problems so another solution is needed.



    Police chief calls for heroin to be legalised


    Rosie Cowan, crime correspondent
    Friday February 6, 2004
    The Guardian


    A senior policeman faced fierce criticism from fellow officers and politicians yesterday when he called for heroin to be legalised.
    Richard Brunstrom, the chief constable of North Wales, said he did not advocate anyone abusing their body, but he thought the open sale of drugs would wipe out the multimillion-pound illegal trade and help cut crime.

    "Heroin is very addictive but it's not very, very dangerous," he told the BBC Wales political programme Dragon's Eye.

    "The question is actually not 'Am I prepared to see the government selling heroin on the street corner or through the pharmacy?' but 'Why would we not want to do that?' Our current policy is doing more harm than good."

    Mr Brunstrom said dealers charged £40 a gram for heroin but the government could sell it for £1 a gram, cutting theft from addicts and violence from dealers.

    But Keith Hellawell, the former drugs tsar and ex-chief constable of West Yorkshire police, said: "He doesn't represent the view of the rest of the police service. He certainly doesn't represent the views of those who have been associated with the problems of heroin."

    Andy Hayman, Norfolk's chief constable and the Association of Chief Police Officers spokesman on drugs, said: "Acpo does not support either the legalisation or open sale of any controlled drug."

    Hywel Williams, the Plaid Cymru MP for Caernarfon,, voiced concern about the effect Mr Brunstrom's statement would have on how young people viewed drug use.


    Drugs and prohibition


    Ben Goldacre
    Saturday August 5, 2006
    The Guardian


    Certain areas of human conduct lend themselves so readily to bad science that you have to wonder if there is a pattern emerging. Last week the parliamentary science and technology committee looked into the ABC classification of illegal drugs, and found it was rubbish. This is not an article about that report, but it is a good place to start: drugs, they found, are supposed to be ranked by harm, in classes A, B, and C, but they're not; and the ranking is supposed to act as a deterrent, but it doesn't.
    Watching this small area of prohibition collapse like wet tissue paper got me thinking: how does the world of prohibition match up against our gold standards for bad science, like the nutritionists or the anti-MMR movement? Have any of the prominent academic papers been retracted? Yes, they have. Professor George Ricaurte, funded by the National Institute for Drug Abuse, published an article in Science, describing how he administered a comparable recreational dose of ecstasy to monkeys: this dose killed 20% of the monkeys, and another 20% were severely injured.

    Even before it was announced - a year later - that they'd got the bottles mixed up and used the wrong drug, you didn't need to be Einstein to know this was duff research, because millions of clubbers have taken the "comparable" recreational dose of ecstasy, and 20% of them did not die. It's no wonder animal rights campaigners manage to persuade themselves that animal research makes a bad model for human physiology.

    That's before you even get started on workaday bad science. Like the food gurus, prohibitionists will cherry pick research that suits them, measure inappropriate surrogate outcomes, and wishfully over-interpret data: a prohibitionist will observe that less cannabis has been seized, and declare that this means there is less cannabis on the streets, rather than less police interest.

    For textbook bad science we'd also want to see the media distorting research: overstating the stuff it likes, and ignoring stuff it doesn't, especially negative findings. We used to read a lot about cannabis and lung cancer in the papers. The largest ever study of whether cannabis causes lung cancer reported its findings recently, to total UK media silence. Lifelong cannabis users, who had smoked more than 22,000 joints, showed no greater risk of cancer than people who had never smoked cannabis.

    While no journalist has written a single word on that study, the Times did manage to make a front page story headed "Cocaine floods the playground: use of the addictive drug by children doubles in a year," out of their misinterpretation of a government report that showed nothing of the sort.

    There are even optimists who believe in quick fix treatments for drug habits - the heroin detox in five days, or painless withdrawal in just 48 hours, under general anaesthesia.

    Why are drugs such a bad science magnet? Partly, of course, it's the moral panic. But more than that, sat squarely at the heart of our discourse on drugs, is one fabulously reductionist notion: it is the idea that a complex web of social, moral, criminal, health, and political problems can be simplified to, blamed on, or treated via a molecule or a plant. You'd have a job keeping that idea afloat.
    MPs have mounted a savage attack on the government's drugs policy, denouncing it as "based on ad hockery", "riddled with anomalies" and "not fit for purpose".
    They have also challenged the basis for the ABC classification system, saying that the harm caused by drugs should be separated from criminal penalties.

    The criticisms come in a report from the parliamentary science and technology select committee published today as part of an inquiry into how the government uses scientific evidence in policy making. It describes as "dereliction of duty" the failure of the government's expert committee, the Advisory Council on Misuse of Drugs (ACMD), to alert the Home Office to serious doubts about the effectiveness of the system. "If the government wants to hand out messages through the criminal justice system then let it do so, but let's not pretend to do it on the back of scientific levels of harm from drugs because clearly that isn't the case," said Phil Willis, chair of the science and technology committee. "The only way to get an accurate and up-to-date classification system is to remove the link with penalties and just focus on harm."

    The investigation - entitled Drug Classification: Making a Hash of it? - found no evidence that the sliding scale of classification deters users from taking the more harmful drugs. "We have more drug addicts today than we've ever had and we have more people using class A drugs than ever ... the classification system as a device to reduce harm to individuals and society has failed," Mr Willis said.

    Even the police regarded the system as of "minor importance", he said. When asked by the committee about anomalies in the system, Andy Hayman, the chair of the Association of Chief Police Officers' drugs committee, said the system was "pretty crude" but this was not a problem because police could use their discretion.

    The ABC system attaches higher penalties to more dangerous class A drugs such as cocaine than to less dangerous drugs such as cannabis, which is in class C.

    Steve Rolles of the Transform Drug Policy Foundation, who gave evidence to the inquiry, welcomed the report. "It's all very well to have good science at one end of this equation, but if there's no evaluation and review of the impact of the classification on key indicators the whole thing then becomes a joke, really."

    The report does not offer a detailed alternative to the current arrangements but says criminal sanctions could be better linked to the level of criminality surrounding particular drugs, and that penalties could make a clearer distinction between individual use and dealing. The report falls short of calling for personal drug use to be decriminalised.

    It denounces the ACMD's use of political and social criteria in its recommendations to the government. One example, according to the MPs, was methamphetamine or "crystal meth". In November 2005 the committee reviewed its class B status and concluded that although medical arguments warranted raising it to class A with heroin and cocaine, this might make it more desirable on the street.

    "It is highly regrettable that the ACMD took it upon itself to make what should have been a political judgment," says the report. "Invoking this non-scientific judgment call as the primary justification for its position has muddied the water with respect to its role." In May the ACMD reconsidered its position and recommended moving the drug into class A.

    The MPs also criticised the government's "opaque" approach to changes in the system and the way in which the changes often appear to be a "knee-jerk response to media storms". Neither the Home Office nor ACMD chairman Sir Michael Rawlins was available to comment.

    Criticisms

    Methamphetamine

    The decision to keep crystal meth in class B in 2005 was criticised as "political" and the subsequent reversal looked "like the council either realised it had made a mistake, or had succumbed to outside pressure".

    Ecstasy

    MPs critical of failure to review evidence for class A status, given its profile and widespread use.

    Magic mushrooms

    The council's failure to speak out on government's decision to put fresh magic mushrooms in class A in July 2005 "undermined its credibility".

    Cannabis

    The timing of the second review of cannabis classification in March 2005 gave the impression that a media outcry was enough to prompt a review.

    Alcohol and tobacco

    Should be included in a more scientific scale of drug-induced harm.


    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...*+war+on+drugs

  2. #2
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: Heroin

    Interesting idea, though I'm not sure I entirely agree...

    And no I didn't read the whole post, though I read enough to get the general concept.
    Last edited by Farnan; November 27, 2006 at 02:38 PM.
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    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Heroin

    We are already doing it here in the Netherlands.
    (or actually they provide a mix of heroine and methadone here, apparently this gives the best results)

    And I can tell you it works like a dream here.
    Addicts involved show far less criminal and anti social behavior, and their health has improved.
    I really can't see any downsides.

    Why the rest of the world doesn't take over our solutions to drug problems is beyond me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Da Skinna View Post
    To get rid of addicts and reduce crime, give 'em pure cocaine, let 'em kill themselves. Of course this idea isn't for kids or Democrats, so that will never hold...
    I also doubt many drug addicts would volunteer to kill themselves like that.
    They usually aren't that stupid, you know? - or else they would have killed themselves a long time ago.
    Last edited by Erik; November 27, 2006 at 03:27 PM.



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    Default Re: Heroin

    Obviously if you prescribe heroin to any one who wants it alot more people will use it. Infact if britain decided to take this approach every smackhead in the world will be applying for asylum over here...
    If I thought i could either, work hard, get a job and a mortgage, a marriage and divorce etc.... or become a heroine user at the taxpayers expense...guess what.... if its good enough for the Victorian romantics its good enough for me.


    p.s there's no financial re-numeration for catching murderers....if we just left them to it we'd save millions. Or maybe we should select victims for them...

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    We are already doing it here in the Netherlands.
    (or actually they provide a mix of heroine and methadone here, apparently this gives the best results)

    And I can tell you it works like a dream here.
    Addicts involved show far less criminal and anti social behavior, and their health has improved.
    I really can't see any downsides.

    Why the rest of the world doesn't take over our solutions to drug problems is beyond me.



    I also doubt many drug addicts would volunteer to kill themselves like that.
    They usually aren't that stupid, you know? - or else they would have killed themselves a long time ago.

    Hmmm,
    and this is why there is spiralling drug problem in Holland and why the government is considering re-criminalising much of the drug trade.



    Please use the edit button instead of double posting. Thanks!
    Last edited by Evariste; November 28, 2006 at 10:25 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALI View Post
    Hmmm,
    and this is why there is spiralling drug problem in Holland and why the government is considering re-criminalising much of the drug trade.
    We have a spiraling drug problem?

    And what do you mean by "the government is considering re-criminalizing much of the drug trade".
    The drug trade is already illegal here, so this is impossible.
    There are politicians considering DE-criminalizing the marijuana trade, in fact I'm pretty sure they make up a majority in parliament, but some conservatives are holding them back arguing that it's impossible due to EU laws.



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    KALI's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Heroin

    Maybe I've been fed mis-information,
    but I was under the impression that alot the liberal attitude towards drug use and prostitution was actually increasing criminal activity.
    This probably relates more to Amsterdam than the whole of Holland..so exuse my generalisation.
    Btw I have nothing against legalizing Canabis.
    Last edited by KALI; November 27, 2006 at 04:33 PM.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Heroin

    How many of the drug users today even know of these Class rankings? I know that most of the drug users I know don't...

    To get rid of addicts and reduce crime, give 'em pure cocaine, let 'em kill themselves. Of course this idea isn't for kids or Democrats, so that will never hold...

    And who funds these researches and Institutes and studies that deem everything bad? The tobacco companies? The pharmaceutical industry leaders?
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    Default Re: Heroin

    and I'm going to read all that!?

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    Default Re: Heroin

    Give them a month in a jail cell with unlimited heroin.
    No more addicts.





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    Default Re: Heroin

    Dammit Peter...Dont ever do that long posts again...my eyes hurts..
    But on the topic...thats actually good aproach..
    just one thing... are the heroine prescribed be from the record breaking production in "free" Avghanistan?...
    or clasical re-configured morfium (aka medical heroine)?..
    Also the conditions for the prescribers are litle foggy...wil they have to work or just to enjoy?
    Will that affect them and how (eg drivers licence...or mortage..etc) or wil it be publical like jews in nazi Germany?
    I would like to see that more in a way when it happen no should it happen scenario...how will look then?
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    Default Re: Heroin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammur-amat View Post
    Dammit Peter...Dont ever do that long posts again...my eyes hurts..
    Muahaha - ahem sorry.

    But on the topic...thats actually good aproach..
    just one thing... are the heroine prescribed be from the record breaking production in "free" Avghanistan?...
    Pass ask me one on sport I'm good at sport.

    In Britain we do already use heroin labelled slightly different as diamorphine but nevertheless it is heroin. It is slightly more effective than morphine as it lacks the naseau that is common on morphine as well as a few other side effects. Really only in palliative care for terminal patients or in a few other cases for brief periods.

    Anywho I imagine that means we have a "safe" supply where we can aquire opium or refined heroin without feeling soiled afterwards.

    or clasical re-configured morfium (aka medical heroine)?..
    Ugh I must read peoples posts before replying. OK so what I was talking about above I assume we are discussing the same thing?

    There are a few other refined chemicals other than morphine and heroin that are a little different but I was under the impression that diamorphine is heroin. I'll see if I can google it.

    Also the conditions for the prescribers are litle foggy...wil they have to work or just to enjoy?
    Its all part of a treatment plan to cure them, or at least just break them out of the criminal socio mindset and social setting which can be as detrimental to quitting as the actual drug itself. I imagine some will never cure themselves but it has a higher success rate of rehabilitation than any other plan.

    Will that affect them and how (eg drivers licence...or mortage..etc) or wil it be publical like jews in nazi Germany?
    I would like to see that more in a way when it happen no should it happen scenario...how will look then?
    Well as a heroin addict you are never long between shots so driving should be out of the question but there are addicts who manage to maintain a normal life in rare circumstance but a heroin addicts usual concern is heroin and little else so they are the main concern. Bringing them back into society as a normal person is the ultimate goal.

    Peter

  12. #12

    Default Re: Heroin

    Quote Originally Posted by Seneca View Post
    There are a few other refined chemicals other than morphine and heroin that are a little different but I was under the impression that diamorphine is heroin. I'll see if I can google it.
    The scientific name for Heroin (a product name coined by the researchers at Bayer, who originally marketed it as a cough medicine) is "diacetylmorphine". "Diamorphine" is the name under which it is prescribed in the UK.

    The substance group which includes morphine, heroin, codeine and other substances with similar chemical layout and effects are called "opiates".

  13. #13
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Heroin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammur-amat View Post
    just one thing... are the heroine prescribed be from the record breaking production in "free" Avghanistan?...
    or clasical re-configured morfium (aka medical heroine)?..
    Does it matter where they get the poppy from?
    Poppy is already grown legally for morphine production, and even for it's delicious seeds that are put certain food items.

    Also the conditions for the prescribers are litle foggy...wil they have to work or just to enjoy?
    Work?
    They are freaking junkies! who is going to hire them?

    In the Netherlands they have to consume it under supervision in special drugs centers.
    Most are homeless and spend the rest of the day and night on the street.
    Usually begging or selling newspapers to earn some money to buy food.

    Quote Originally Posted by RusskiSoldat View Post
    Give them a month in a jail cell with unlimited heroin.
    No more addicts.
    Why such a hate towards drug addicts?

    Or maybe you think people who break speed limits should have their safety belts removed so they will also kill themselves?
    And maybe there should be snipers at every street corner to take down anyone who ignores a red traffic light?

    If you don't do exactly what Putin orders you must be killed, huh?
    Last edited by Erik; November 27, 2006 at 05:27 PM.



  14. #14
    Sammur-amat's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Heroin

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Does it matter where they get the poppy from?
    Poppy is already grown legally for morphine production, and even for it's delicious seeds that are put certain food items.
    Well we dont want to legalise Druglords..do we?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Work?
    They are freaking junkies! who is going to hire them?
    Thats the catch Erik..if they feed they habbit..they can do all things you do..and as time passing and their abilities falls, they also get cured...
    Now do you really wanna tell me that discrimination in your quote will be noticed if they are not forced to sell everythin to get fixed?
    Or you think that there is no employed junkies in the world?
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  15. #15
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Heroin

    Quote Originally Posted by Sammur-amat View Post
    Well we dont want to legalise Druglords..do we?
    You would buy the poppy straight from the farmer of course.
    It would actually hurt drug lords because they would loose their grip over the local population. (for this reason I think the west should just buy out every poppy farmer in Afghanistan...certainly a lot cheaper than the current war, but that's another debate)

    Thats the catch Erik..if they feed they habbit..they can do all things you do..and as time passing and their abilities falls, they also get cured...
    Now do you really wanna tell me that discrimination in your quote will be noticed if they are not forced to sell everythin to get fixed?
    Or you think that there is no employed junkies in the world?
    Sorry, I have no idea what you trying to say here.

    Do you mean: "will everybody get access to free heroine?".
    In that case the answer is no, only long term addicts can enter the program.
    People who still use heroine for fun and who can hold a job don't qualify for this program.
    Last edited by Erik; November 27, 2006 at 05:49 PM.



  16. #16
    Sammur-amat's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Heroin

    Sorry i will disregard he 1st part cuz its as you say "another debate"..and let it that way.


    Quote Originally Posted by erik
    Sorry, I have no idea what you trying to say here.
    I meant after initial 'high' the addict is normal as you..but as time pass..the crave is back and you'll see the different person..
    ..now imagine trip to pharmacy instead of the corner/house/whatever the place "the best friend" resides and eliminate the crave...the ugly side will never be public or the social status diminished as the urge for money not exist and the crisis never begins..and after while when the experience is bad memory...
    how would you know for the sins of the past /the addiction..
    and not to emphisize that rebuilding home ...relations with family.."friends"..etc.will be quite easier and quicker


    Quote Originally Posted by erik
    Do you mean: "will everybody get access to free heroine?".
    In that case the answer is no, only long term addicts can enter the program.
    People who still use heroine for fun and who can hold a job don't qualify for this program.
    Nope ..i say save the ones with shorter carier as addicts..persons already ruined by long addiction look damaged and found difficulties to re-integrate into "normal" society..
    ...or would you save a baby or the old man?...Tough call? Baby can be Hitler reborn and the old man is already known what he become..but stil ...baby or the old man?
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Heroin

    Why such a hate towards drug addicts?
    Because drug addiction, save for a negligible percentage of the time, is based solely on your own choices.
    Few people chose to crash their car into a tree.
    Or maybe you think people who break speed limits should have their safety belts removed so they will also kill themselves?
    And maybe there should be snipers at every street corner to take down anyone who ignores a red traffic light?

    If you don't do exactly what Putin orders you must be killed, huh?
    Utterly irrelevant, increasingly hyperbolic, and bordering on insulting.





  18. #18
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Heroin

    I didn't read the whole post, but this seems like a legalize heroin (and drugs) argument right?
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  19. #19
    KaerMorhen's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Heroin

    Let state it clear: drugs are scum and most addicts are not forced to use them, right??? - rest is obvious.

  20. #20
    Rhah's Avatar S'eer of Fnords
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    Default Re: Heroin

    Quote Originally Posted by Foytaz View Post
    Let state it clear: drugs are scum and most addicts are not forced to use them, right??? - rest is obvious.

    Excuse me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you've never been addicted to anything. Addicts aren't forced to use drugs, but its incredibly difficult to stop themselves from taking.
    Its kind of like trying to give up pissing for a month. But, after about a day, you're body will impel you to piss whether you want to or not.
    I have to admit, I have a nothing but disdain for smackheads. They are nothing but parasites and don't deserve anyone's pity.
    However, when they conciously choose to try and come off it and give up their parasitical existence, then they should be supported with whatever means necessary.

    Giving them free skag will not help this situation, but it probably would reduce drug related crime to some degree.
    "Moral indignation is jealousy with a Halo" - H.G. Wells.


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