Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

**sinsoot** · January 30, 2016, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by affluence

Another wikipedia victim here...!!!! Turks never spoke persian or arabic in history. they jut used the persian alphabet....

im An Afshar Turkish my self from Iran today most of Afshars even use Persian more than how they used their own Turkish ( Azerbaijani of today )
and you know even Sultans such as Yavuz Salim had only 2 Turkish bait of Poems all of his poems were in Persian

so for Educated Turks Persian was like their own language Turkish and thats why by Ottomans Persian turned into 4th language of Balkan for things such as Sufism

lets not forget half of population of Iran is Also Turkish origin and from age of Ghaznavid empire until today Khameni leader of Iran were and are Iranian Turkish

**sinsoot** · January 30, 2016, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by jan_boruta

This is not a thread about language, please stop it.

@Frozenmen: many thanks for the research, it's of immense help.

sorry dude
so is there any way you rename those Iranian states on their actual historical names ? do you need i send you map of states of iran of that time ?

**jan_boruta** · January 30, 2016, 09:41 AM

Let me reiterate (previous post is lost forever on the previous page.) This is not a thread about language or ethnicity. Please stop this discussion and don't derail the thread.

And in the light of how people show contrary ideas and evidence, I am not going to touch the province or city names anymore. You'll always be able to edit them by yourself.

**sinsoot** · January 30, 2016, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Danishmend

Persian language was used in the court and in literature by poets etc, just as Latin in Europe. Ordinary Turks did not speak it.

though in Today Iran and Afghanistan most of Turks use Persian "

and some still know Turkish as well
and mostly educated Turks used Persian as well as Divan and even House of Ottomans used Persian in palace until mid of 18th century at age of Nader Shah Afshar

in Iran it self it was also always like Tork o Tajik. Turks were kings and army of Iran while published Persian culture of Tajiks ( Persians ) or Tats both have a same mean

**sinsoot** · January 30, 2016, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by jan_boruta

Let me reiterate (previous post is lost forever on the previous page.) This is not a thread about language or ethnicity. Please stop this discussion and don't derail the thread.

And in the light of how people show contrary ideas and evidence, I am not going to touch the province or city names anymore. You'll always be able to edit them by yourself.

Thank you so much if you the ability of changing states for the playes
sure i wont post more about languages

**sinsoot** · January 30, 2016, 10:21 AM

btw is there any chance that you make Hashashins Faction in Iran ? or at least as nomadic faction ? it would be a great faction and they use stealth and guerrilla style of fighting

**FrozenmenSS** · January 30, 2016, 04:23 PM

I added 2 more ''Other Nobles'' For Nicaea and Sultanate of Rum in the last post.So with this Im Done with those factions. My last Post will be the the pool of Names of Volga Bulgaria and Bulgaria in the Balkans + the Family tree for Volga Bulgaria(this will be hard).And after this post Im done with the research. Have to take a brake...

**nnnm** · January 31, 2016, 03:42 AM

hope this is helpful

and hope u guys replace Raqqa with Aleppo.

**jan_boruta** · January 31, 2016, 05:28 AM

Wew cannot change the placement of settlements or provinces without campaign map tools. They might see the light of day at some point, but it's not today. I only can rename some provinces, but I'd like to keep it limited. But overall I think there will be little harm if I did it like that:

Balochistan -> Makran or Makran-and-Sistan - how would you translate "and" into Persian in this context? Compound names like (Calabria et Sicilia) are consistently in Latin.
Isfahan -> Iraq al-Ajam
Mesopotamia -> Iraq
Tabarestan -> Adarbadagan/Atharbijan/Azerbaijan (please advise on spelling - there is a faction on the map called Adarbadagan, so I wonder if using another spelling would be correct)
Tarabulus will stay as it is.

I can rename Raqqa to Aleppo - in fact I was very conflicted about that city name, but in the end I wanted to have more Arabic names, especially because it's controlled by the Zengid dynasty at game start. I suppose I can rename it, it's a more famous name anyway. But I'd like to keep the region name as Assyria, same with Palestine.

**FrozenmenSS** · January 31, 2016, 05:38 AM

Raqqa is better.Aleppo is not even in the same region. It is in the region of Antioch.The town is on the left Bank of the river and Aleppo is on the right with at least 50 kilometers away from the river..

**jan_boruta** · January 31, 2016, 05:40 AM

Good point with the river. Though I admit I stopped caring about total geographical/regional correctness at some point because too many settlements are in unsuitable places in vanilla. (Paris plz)

**Collateral_dmg** · January 31, 2016, 06:28 AM

It would be great if you could change Sisak to Zagreb, as it was a more important city at the time. The diocese in Sisak ceased to exist somewhere in the 10th century, and in 1094., when the diocese of Zagreb was founded, Sisak became a feudal estate of the bishop of Zagreb, who in 1215. donated it to the Zagreb's Kaptol. The priests of Kaptol performed a very important role in the religious and state life of Croatia. Later, in 1242., Zagreb will be declared as a 'free royal city' by king Bela IV.

**OutsiderKK** · January 31, 2016, 06:44 AM

So, is Iconion gonna stay as it is or will it be turned into Konya?

**FrozenmenSS** · January 31, 2016, 07:07 AM

So Jan - have you thinked on the Idea of adding the 5th Crusade as Horde Faction with 3 Horde armies - 1 in Croatia,1 in Venice and 1 in Lombary(Verona)? Because the preparations for the crusade was already started in 1212/3.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Crusade

Evidence of the continuing enthusiasm for the idea of crusading can be seen in the Children's Crusade. In 1212, European children gathered together and marched (accompanied by many adults) in hopes of going on crusade. The largest group traveled in Lombardy where many dispersed, although some did reach Genoa. The few who reached Rome had their technically invalid crusade vows dispensed by Innocent III. Like the People's Crusade, this unofficial crusade never reached the middle east. Some reports described some of the children being sold into slavery.

These, of course, were not the only campaigns. In 1213, Innocent III began to plan the Fifth crusade for when a six-year truce ended in 1217. While Innocent died on July 16, 1216, his successor Pope Honorius III continued the preparations. The Fifth Crusade consisted of various expeditions against Egypt. With the Crusade you can get the reclaim option to the Crusader states or the pope (for example) And the Crusade to be Military ally of Venice,Hungary Lombardy and others and be at war with the Ayyubids.

The years from 1209 to 1219 (or 1229, depending on sources) saw the mounting of the Albigensian Crusade. This was a campaign against a sect of Cathar heretics in southern France. Simon de Montfort led the crusade for the Pope. This attempt was not very successful; the inquisition that was put in place ca 1233 was more effective.

Ideas how to implement this crusade also?

**jan_boruta** · January 31, 2016, 07:56 AM

Please stop with ideas, lol. I am not adding any more factions. You yourself considered the maps done a few pages ago.

Crusading hordes make little sense because they could settle and create a country called "5th Crusade". They would have to have a separate culture group to change their occupation options so they could only sack or claim land for their parent factions like in Last Roman. Too much work for too little gain.

In regards to Zagreb and Sisak - at first it was Zagreb, then one Croatian suggested to change it to Sisak, now another Croatian suggests to change it back to Zagreb. No, nothing will be changed except those Persian province names as noted above.

Iconion is going to stay.

**Linke** · January 31, 2016, 08:15 AM

" how would you translate "and" into Persian in this context? Compound names like (Calabria et Sicilia) are consistently in Latin. "

I in modern it is u, a more old fashioned way to say it would be ud, 90% shure

**Scaevola** · January 31, 2016, 08:26 AM

The implementation of crusades in Medieval 1 was very basic, but it worked. Better to keep things simple at first and go further from a simple solution. It seems that the mod developers follow a pragmatic approach and I'm happy about it.

**nnnm** · January 31, 2016, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by jan_boruta

Wew cannot change the placement of settlements or provinces without campaign map tools. They might see the light of day at some point, but it's not today. I only can rename some provinces, but I'd like to keep it limited. But overall I think there will be little harm if I did it like that:

Balochistan -> Makran or Makran-and-Sistan - how would you translate "and" into Persian in this context? Compound names like (Calabria et Sicilia) are consistently in Latin.
Isfahan -> Iraq al-Ajam
Mesopotamia -> Iraq
Tabarestan -> Adarbadagan/Atharbijan/Azerbaijan (please advise on spelling - there is a faction on the map called Adarbadagan, so I wonder if using another spelling would be correct)
Tarabulus will stay as it is.

I can rename Raqqa to Aleppo - in fact I was very conflicted about that city name, but in the end I wanted to have more Arabic names, especially because it's controlled by the Zengid dynasty at game start. I suppose I can rename it, it's a more famous name anyway. But I'd like to keep the region name as Assyria, same with Palestine.

I know the map can't be changed

. it's basicly info about the main regions in that era and my drawing not that accurate lol.
in Arabic Makran and Sistan = Makran "wa" Sistan.
Atharbaijan or Azarbaijan as u like and the name of the faction is the Atabegs of the "region" . u choose the region name and ably it to them.

I know it's location is wrong but still Aleppo is far more important than Raqqa and was the second important city in Syria after Damascus for Great Seljuks,Zangids, Ayyubids and Mamluks after them and niether Raqqa or Aleppo were held by Zangids. maybe u did that for balance.

**jan_boruta** · January 31, 2016, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by nnnm

I know the map can't be changed

. it's basicly info about the main regions in that era and my drawing not that accurate lol.
in Arabic Makran and Sistan = Makran "wa" Sistan.
Atharbaijan or Azarbaijan as u like and the name of the faction is the Atabegs of the "region" . u choose the region name and ably it to them.

I know it's location is wrong but still Aleppo is far more important than Raqqa and was the second important city in Syria after Damascus for Great Seljuks,Zangids, Ayyubids and Mamluks after them and niether Raqqa or Aleppo were held by Zangids. maybe u did that for balance.

Thank you for this insight. You're partially right about the balance. The fact that the city is called Raqqa on the map is a combination of balance and proper geographical location. First, Aleppo is quite a bit more to the west than the city on the campaign map. And because of balance, I didn't want to give that city to the Ayyubids, instead I preferred to make another Muslim state have a bit more power, so all of them in the area have a fair chance at expansion. Also this means that the Zengids and the Crusaders share a border, so both have one more option for land-based trade or direct war. I think that leaving the map as it is right now is the best compromise between history and game balance, so it will likely stay as Raqqa - after all this city had a bit of a renaissance under the Zengids and later Ayyubids. In any case, I'll be renaming the Persian provinces as requested.

**Collateral_dmg** · February 01, 2016, 05:12 AM

Originally Posted by jan_boruta

In regards to Zagreb and Sisak - at first it was Zagreb, then one Croatian suggested to change it to Sisak, now another Croatian suggests to change it back to Zagreb. No, nothing will be changed except those Persian province names as noted above.

I'm just saying Zagreb was more important, but whatever. It was in medieval 2 which started in 1066., and as far as we know Zagreb didn't even exist at that time. So even CA thought it was more important, just sying