Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

[FrozenmenSS]

you really shouldn't be in the modding community if you get easily wrecked over absurd development times. Its practically tradition for mods to take forever, and major overhauls like this even longer.

We have been churning out work all year, but we had to basically restart the campaign from scratch while doing a complete balancing overhaul. All of that was this year.

By what you mean exactly ''complete balancing overhaul''? Starting factional regions,religions,playable factions,armies,diplomacy,public order or starting buildings?

[zsimmortal]

By what you mean exactly ''complete balancing overhaul''? Starting factional regions,religions,playable factions,armies,diplomacy,public order or starting buildings?

He's talking about unit balancing (for custom battles and campaign).

[Degnan]

How much percent of campaign already done approximately? 50%, 75%? Can tell anybody?

[Slytacular]

We have yet to compile our work together and really visualize how far along we are. Ideally we want our basic campaign done in a month or two. No promises though. Expect us to keep prolonging things.

[FrozenmenSS]

ty for the Answer.And Merry Xmas

[Totalize]

How does this compare to 1295 which has a campaign?

[Azrien Fox]

How does this compare to 1295 which has a campaign?

Well, 1212 is a custom-battles-focused mod for now, but we are working to create a much more balanced, in-depth and functional campaign than 1295. Plus, the 1212 campaign will allow players to play as most if not all the factions (with dedicated faction rosters and not rosters that are re-used in many factions like 1295) shown on the main campaign factions map. Which also means, unlike 1295 which requires the use of a DLC to play, the 1212 campaign will be running on the grand campaign map.

[Totalize]

Thanks for the clarification Azrien. Now the oft asked question. Will we see this mod in 2018?

[Azrien Fox]

Thanks for the clarification Azrien. Now the oft asked question. Will we see this mod in 2018?

Well, the mod itself is already out, though it has not been updated since February. In 2018, I do not know when the rough estimate of a campaign update is because I personally am not working on the campaign, but we should see at least an update for the campaign and maybe an update to fix bugs in units in 2018.

[Saris_]

I have two questions, will all the factions be playable and when will the tiers advance from tier 1 to tier 2, will it be a date or technology?

[zsimmortal]

I have two questions, will all the factions be playable and when will the tiers advance from tier 1 to tier 2, will it be a date or technology?

Not all, but the majority of the ones on the map. Only some minor factions will not be playable. Tiers will advance with technology.

[You_Guess_Who]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Work in Progress, We are currently adding factions to the database and startpos step-by-step.


For your information, there are UI limitations: Max 11 Faction Groups (more than that it'll go offscreen), with 6 to 7 Factions per Group (7 is actually bit forced, more than one-third of the rightmost faction button would slip under the Faction Leader screen).

Unless there's someone who know how to script the UI so it shows 2 rows of factions totaling 12 faction, we have to use Geographical Region Groping rather than Cultural Grouping. This choice was taken to maximize playable factions.
This kind of grouping might feels awkward since there are factions from different culture bundled together; but if we took Cultural Grouping approach, then many factions have to be sacrificed. For Regional Grouping to work, the Cultural Group Traits are not used, so the Faction traits are based entirely on the individual Faction's traits.


The Faction Traits are also still Work in Progress, the value can be changed on further development.

Here's the possible grouping scheme:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

North Sea: England, Scotland, Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway
(Norway starts landless. Ireland is in even if not independent for variety sake)

Hispania and North Africa: Aragon, Castille, Navarre, Portugal, Almohad, Marinid, Hafsid

Italia: Sicily, Venice, Genoa, Pisa, Milan, Bologna, Papal States

Red Sea and Arabia: Ayyubids, Makuria, Zagwe, Oman, Uyyunids, Rasulids
(The Uyyunid and Rasulid were added simply because there's two open slots)

France and Lowlands: France, Burgundy, Toulouse, Flanders, Brabant, Friesland

Germania: HRE, Swiss, Bavaria, Austria, Bohemia, Lorraine, Trier

Balkans: Hungary, Croatia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Latin Empire, Epirus, Wallachia
(Croatia was under personal union with Hungary acting as vassal, Wallachia position in the selection is rather tenuous; so changes is possible)

Levant and Anatolia: Rum, Jerusalem, Antioch, Cilician Armenia, Niceaea, Trebizond

Steppes: Ilkhanate, Golden Horde, Cumans, Volga Bulgar, Alans
(one slot open)

Baltic and East Europe: Poland, Kievan Rus, Lithuania, Teutonic Order, Yotvingians, Ryazan-Murom
(There should be a representative of Prussians for now its Yotvingians; There's an open Rus faction slot, either Galicia Volhynia, Chernigov, or Ryazan-Murom - for now we place Ryazan-Murom)

Caucasia, Mesopotamia, and Persia: Georgia, Zengid, Abbasid, Khwarezm, Ghurid, Azerbaijan
(there's one slot open, for now we arbitrarily take Azerbaijan)

[Knight2708]

Work in Progress, We are currently adding factions to the database and startpos step-by-step.


For your information, there are UI limitations: Max 11 Faction Groups (more than that it'll go offscreen), with 6 to 7 Factions per Group (7 is actually bit forced, more than one-third of the rightmost faction button would slip under the Faction Leader screen).

Unless there's someone who know how to script the UI so it shows 2 rows of factions totaling 12 faction, we have to use Geographical Region Groping rather than Cultural Grouping. This choice was taken to maximize playable factions.
This kind of grouping might feels awkward since there are factions from different culture bundled together; but if we took Cultural Grouping approach, then many factions have to be sacrificed. For Regional Grouping to work, the Cultural Group Traits are not used, so the Faction traits are based entirely on the individual Faction's traits.


The Faction Traits are also still Work in Progress, the value can be changed on further development.

Here's the possible grouping scheme:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

North Sea: England, Scotland, Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway
(Norway starts landless. Ireland is in even if not independent for variety sake)

Hispania and North Africa: Aragon, Castille, Navarre, Portugal, Almohad, Marinid, Hafsid

Italia: Sicily, Venice, Genoa, Pisa, Milan, Bologna, Papal States

Red Sea and Arabia: Ayyubids, Makuria, Zagwe, Oman, Uyyunids, Rasulids
(The Uyyunid and Rasulid were added simply because there's two open slots)

France and Lowlands: France, Burgundy, Toulouse, Flanders, Brabant, Friesland

Germania: HRE, Swiss, Bavaria, Austria, Bohemia, Lorraine, Trier

Balkans: Hungary, Croatia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Latin Empire, Epirus, Wallachia
(Croatia was under personal union with Hungary acting as vassal, Wallachia position in the selection is rather tenuous; so changes is possible)

Levant and Anatolia: Rum, Jerusalem, Antioch, Cilician Armenia, Niceaea, Trebizond

Steppes: Ilkhanate, Golden Horde, Cumans, Volga Bulgar, Alans
(one slot open)

Baltic and East Europe: Poland, Kievan Rus, Lithuania, Teutonic Order, Yotvingians, Ryazan-Murom
(There should be a representative of Prussians for now its Yotvingians; There's an open Rus faction slot, either Galicia Volhynia, Chernigov, or Ryazan-Murom - for now we place Ryazan-Murom)

Caucasia, Mesopotamia, and Persia: Georgia, Zengid, Abbasid, Khwarezm, Ghurid, Azerbaijan
(there's one slot open, for now we arbitrarily take Azerbaijan)

I would honestly use the 7 possible slots for every regional group. Personally I would take a bigger selection of unique playable factions over a slightly tidier looking faction selection screen any day of the week.

[alhoon]

I would respectfully disagree and prefer a tidier faction selection screen.

[zsimmortal]

I would honestly use the 7 possible slots for every regional group. Personally I would take a bigger selection of unique playable factions over a slightly tidier looking faction selection screen any day of the week.

The problem is the amount of 'unique' playable factions (in a lot of areas, namely in Germany and the Arabian peninsula, any significant difference between factions should be pretty much superfluous). At some point, adding for the sake of it just becomes overkill. At around 70 factions, if someone doesn't feel like the game offers enough unique playthroughs, maybe the expectations are simply impossible to achieve. While I prefer a tidy, 6 faction group, we organized everything to fit the work done and the work to be done so that we could maximize the number of factions.

[Knight2708]

The problem is the amount of 'unique' playable factions (in a lot of areas, namely in Germany and the Arabian peninsula, any significant difference between factions should be pretty much superfluous). At some point, adding for the sake of it just becomes overkill. At around 70 factions, if someone doesn't feel like the game offers enough unique playthroughs, maybe the expectations are simply impossible to achieve. While I prefer a tidy, 6 faction group, we organized everything to fit the work done and the work to be done so that we could maximize the number of factions.

Unique probably wasn't the right term. I am more thinking about historical accuracy and imho a more interesting gameplay experience. The extremely regional and fragmented nature of polities was obviously a major feature of the Middle Ages and the more factions are in the mod the more accurately can this be replicated. Struggling to reunite a heavily fragmented polity such as the HRE or Poland would make for a very interesting, unique and historical gameplay experience, even if the various subfactions are mostly similar in terms of unit rosters, culture and gameplay. Now of course I appreciate that this mod still has a ton of factions, more than any other medieval mod that I am aware of, and whether the mod will ultimately end up with one or two more factions or not, will not stop me from loving this mod that will probably be the best medieval strategy game of all time, but I think that adding more factions when possible is a good thing.

[Commissar Caligula_]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Work in Progress, We are currently adding factions to the database and startpos step-by-step.


For your information, there are UI limitations: Max 11 Faction Groups (more than that it'll go offscreen), with 6 to 7 Factions per Group (7 is actually bit forced, more than one-third of the rightmost faction button would slip under the Faction Leader screen).

Unless there's someone who know how to script the UI so it shows 2 rows of factions totaling 12 faction, we have to use Geographical Region Groping rather than Cultural Grouping. This choice was taken to maximize playable factions.
This kind of grouping might feels awkward since there are factions from different culture bundled together; but if we took Cultural Grouping approach, then many factions have to be sacrificed. For Regional Grouping to work, the Cultural Group Traits are not used, so the Faction traits are based entirely on the individual Faction's traits.


The Faction Traits are also still Work in Progress, the value can be changed on further development.

Here's the possible grouping scheme:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

North Sea: England, Scotland, Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway
(Norway starts landless. Ireland is in even if not independent for variety sake)

Hispania and North Africa: Aragon, Castille, Navarre, Portugal, Almohad, Marinid, Hafsid

Italia: Sicily, Venice, Genoa, Pisa, Milan, Bologna, Papal States

Red Sea and Arabia: Ayyubids, Makuria, Zagwe, Oman, Uyyunids, Rasulids
(The Uyyunid and Rasulid were added simply because there's two open slots)

France and Lowlands: France, Burgundy, Toulouse, Flanders, Brabant, Friesland

Germania: HRE, Swiss, Bavaria, Austria, Bohemia, Lorraine, Trier

Balkans: Hungary, Croatia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Latin Empire, Epirus, Wallachia
(Croatia was under personal union with Hungary acting as vassal, Wallachia position in the selection is rather tenuous; so changes is possible)

Levant and Anatolia: Rum, Jerusalem, Antioch, Cilician Armenia, Niceaea, Trebizond

Steppes: Ilkhanate, Golden Horde, Cumans, Volga Bulgar, Alans
(one slot open)

Baltic and East Europe: Poland, Kievan Rus, Lithuania, Teutonic Order, Yotvingians, Ryazan-Murom
(There should be a representative of Prussians for now its Yotvingians; There's an open Rus faction slot, either Galicia Volhynia, Chernigov, or Ryazan-Murom - for now we place Ryazan-Murom)

Caucasia, Mesopotamia, and Persia: Georgia, Zengid, Abbasid, Khwarezm, Ghurid, Azerbaijan
(there's one slot open, for now we arbitrarily take Azerbaijan)

Players on smaller/larger monitors will (probably) be able to fit different amounts. So you might need to be prepared for people being like "omg why can't I find England" or whatever, because they're playing on a small monitor and all of the groups don't fit onscreen.

Edit: I'm just going off the fact that changing your resolution means you can see more/less factions in custom battles. Eg with a 1920x1080 monitor you can see about 54 factions I think, whereas on a smaller monitor you can see less.

[Heisenburrg]

Great, this is the kind of preview I was waiting for! And it looks already pretty awesome, hats off!

My thoughts on this;
1. A regional grouping is no problem in my opinion. Ok, there are some regions that have a little bit less factions and some that have a little bit more factions than available proper slots for that region but it´s a reasonable classification, almost all important factions are in anyway and you already found a pretty solid design.
Only thing that you could do would be to sort the regions a little more grid-wise, for example „from left to right“ = Iberia and Africa>France and Lowlands>North Sea>Germania>Italia>Balkans>Baltic and Eastern Europe>Steppe and then going down the the whole Sinus Arabicus from Anatolia over Persia to Arabia. But thats just an idea to make it look more neatly.

2. Although more playable factions are always cool, you already have a huge selection which leaves little to be desired. I would probably go with less factions and a proper UI, because this also contributes to immersion and especially if Caligula´s statement is correct, it would be important to stay with the vanilla system. Anyway, I am quite unsure about that and would not exclude the other option. Dont want to judge which factions would be dispensable for a 6-slots-solution per region.

3. The only possible changes in the groupings I noticed would be;
First, that you could add Chernigov to the eastern-Europe-group as seventh faction or giving Ryazon-Murom to the steppes-group instead. Also I don´t know why Yotvingians should be playable in any case because there is already Lithuania as pagan state, why not another polish faction to fill the gap instead?
Second, that Germania is currently very south-centered so I would give the slot of either Bavaria, Lorraine or Trier to a northern state like Saxony, Brandenburg... or Thuringia .
Third one is optional, but maybe either Bologna´s or Pisa´s slot could be given to Savoy so we close the gap to france a little bit. Yeah, that would be all ideas from my point.

4. Just a Question; Why Ireland and not Wales as a third british faction? Last one was quite independent in contrast to Ireland and would bring also some variety.

5.UI is just fantastic! Compliments!

6. Also the traits seem to be very good! Finally they have some meaningful effects!

[Heisenburrg]

Wait a moment... Sorry for the double post, but I have to ask something!

Now I read something about the cultural traits, because I haven´t played Attila for a long time and I was not sure about their mechanic ingame. The article said; „All factions of a given culture receive a common "cultural trait". The culture defines which style of architecture is used and also sets the different technologies and units that it can acquire.“

Does this mean, that all factions in the „Hispania and Africa“-group, like Castille or the Almohads, have to use the same architecture and the same tech tree, as well as using the same culture-sounds?! (e.g. the same voices in diplomacy or in battle)
If this is the case, it would be fatal! Then it would be better to use actual cultural groupings and have only a smaller variety of playable factions than to use catholic-european buildings and techs when playing the almohads. Would be super immersion-breaking.
Hope I understand that wrong and this is not the case...

[Kreissig]

Great to read about the progress here! It's the only reason I bought the base game.