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Thread: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

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  1. #1

    Default Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Hello all!

    This thread is here to document the research and future development of the campaign map for Medieval Kingdoms. It is also meant to gather, aggregate and discuss feedback, suggestions and research done outside the mod's team.

    Many of the maps currently posted have been polished enough, so I hope they will not see major changes. This primarily stands true for starting and emergent faction positions.

    Please do post your opinions and feedback, so the future startpos can be as historical as possible within the constraints set by vanilla TW Attila map. Please also stay away from emotional talk and one-sided nationalistic viewpoints. Thank you!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Current version: 1.7c beta

    To-do:
    - Starting diplomatic relations research
    - Starting characters and name lists for all factions research
    - Starting building sets for settlements (when buildings list is decided; I would advocate rather undeveloped cities for better empire-building feeling)
    - UI reskins (in progress)


    Settlements map
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Provinces map
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Starting factions map
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Emergent factions map
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Rebels map
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Religions map
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Faction icons (including emergent)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by jan_boruta; February 19, 2016 at 04:16 PM.

  3. #3
    Csatádi's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    CoA of Transylvania is incorrect, it misses the Székely symbols: sun and moon. You should skip the red band which was inserted only in 1666 and you have plenty of place to put them on the shield.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    No major updates since the TWC rollback. I only added sea province names (some are different than the ones in Attila) and changed some of the land province names to better match their Latin counterparts. These are:
    Castella Nova (was Mancha)
    Ruscia (was Rusiya)
    Balticum (was Baltia)

    I wanted to do the same for a few other provinces, but they started sounding out of place. Those were:
    Romania (instead of Romagna)
    Langobardia (instead of Lombardia)
    Scandia (instead of Scandinavia)
    Legio (instead of Leon)

    There are a few provinces that could use another name, mostly in the Arabic/Islamic regions, I wonder if there's anything more suitable for them. Those are:
    Tripolitania
    Yemen
    and maybe Assyria

    There is also one city name that I'm unhappy with, that is Valencia. On the map it is far away from the coast, and in grand campaign it's called Segobriga - close to modern day Cuenca. I still called it Valencia because it remained (mostly) in Muslim hands until the 1230's, while Cuenca was re-conquered by Castile about 50 years earlier. I thought that giving Castile such an early border with the Mediterranean Sea would be too anachronistic, even at the price of Valencia not being anywhere close to its real position.

    Let me know what you think, but personally I'd stay with how things are right now. Mostly Latin, and ethnic only when cooler or appropriate (Persia, Africa, Italy, Leon)
    Last edited by jan_boruta; January 20, 2016 at 07:27 AM.

  5. #5
    Vonchiefer's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jan_boruta View Post
    No major updates since the TWC rollback. I only added sea province names (some are different than the ones in Attila) and changed some of the land province names to better match their Latin counterparts. These are:
    Castella Nova (was Mancha)
    Ruscia (was Rusiya)
    Balticum (was Baltia)

    I wanted to do the same for a few other provinces, but they started sounding out of place. Those were:
    Romania (instead of Romagna)
    Langobardia (instead of Lombardia)
    Scandia (instead of Scandinavia)
    Legio (instead of Leon)

    There are a few provinces that could use another name, mostly in the Arabic/Islamic regions, I wonder if there's anything more suitable for them. Those are:
    Tripolitania
    Yemen
    and maybe Assyria

    There is also one city name that I'm unhappy with, that is Valencia. On the map it is far away from the coast, and in grand campaign it's called Segobriga - close to modern day Cuenca. I still called it Valencia because it remained (mostly) in Muslim hands until the 1230's, while Cuenca was re-conquered by Castile about 50 years earlier. I thought that giving Castile such an early border with the Mediterranean Sea would be too anachronistic, even at the price of Valencia not being anywhere close to its real position.

    Let me know what you think, but personally I'd stay with how things are right now. Mostly Latin, and ethnic only when cooler or appropriate (Persia, Africa, Italy, Leon)
    You could sink part of the map.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    In later years The kingdom of Nicaea took back Constantinople and continued to rule as the byzantine empire, this was also the end of the Latin empire year 1262 AD and Byzantium sounds cooler then Nicaea, so could you change the to names around for me .. or re name the fac to the byzantine empire if they retake Constantinople??

  7. #7

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jan_boruta View Post
    No major updates since the TWC rollback. I only added sea province names (some are different than the ones in Attila) and changed some of the land province names to better match their Latin counterparts. These are:
    Castella Nova (was Mancha)
    Ruscia (was Rusiya)
    Balticum (was Baltia)

    I wanted to do the same for a few other provinces, but they started sounding out of place. Those were:
    Romania (instead of Romagna)
    Langobardia (instead of Lombardia)
    Scandia (instead of Scandinavia)
    Legio (instead of Leon)

    There are a few provinces that could use another name, mostly in the Arabic/Islamic regions, I wonder if there's anything more suitable for them. Those are:
    Tripolitania
    Yemen
    and maybe Assyria

    There is also one city name that I'm unhappy with, that is Valencia. On the map it is far away from the coast, and in grand campaign it's called Segobriga - close to modern day Cuenca. I still called it Valencia because it remained (mostly) in Muslim hands until the 1230's, while Cuenca was re-conquered by Castile about 50 years earlier. I thought that giving Castile such an early border with the Mediterranean Sea would be too anachronistic, even at the price of Valencia not being anywhere close to its real position.

    Let me know what you think, but personally I'd stay with how things are right now. Mostly Latin, and ethnic only when cooler or appropriate (Persia, Africa, Italy, Leon)
    Ṭarābulus for Tripolitania
    al-Yaman for yemen
    Ahl-Dhimma for Assyria

  8. #8

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Shouldn't the lower part of Egypt and Abyssinia be Coptic or whatever is the new religion for Aksum?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zsimmortal View Post
    Shouldn't the lower part of Egypt and Abyssinia be Coptic or whatever is the new religion for Aksum?
    Yes, could be. I didn't play as Aksum in the grand campaign yet and I didn't notice the new religion when I was making those maps. Thanks, I'll give it some thought.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jan_boruta View Post
    Yes, could be. I didn't play as Aksum in the grand campaign yet and I didn't notice the new religion when I was making those maps. Thanks, I'll give it some thought.
    I just checked and it's Eastern Christianity in-game, so Armenia should probably have a majority of it and possibly Assyria having a minority.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    You might want to add a Jewish kingdom or Hebrew kingdom as emergent faction.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zsimmortal View Post
    I just checked and it's Eastern Christianity in-game, so Armenia should probably have a majority of it and possibly Assyria having a minority.
    Indeed. In the very first version of the religion map I had Nestorianism representing the oriental Christian denominations centered in Assyria, so it'll be good to bring it back. It's nice of CA to include this Christian denomination in the base game, will be easier to just use it instead of creating a religion from scratch.

    Quote Originally Posted by lexWielstra View Post
    You might want to add a Jewish kingdom or Hebrew kingdom as emergent faction.
    Interesting idea, but with this version I didn't really want to go into hypothetical factions with the emergents. Between the early AD's and 1947 there wasn't really a Jewish kingdom that I could refer to. If others in the team could voice their opinion on that? I could add it to the Palestine province, since the Kingdom of Jerusalem is pretty much represented by the Crusader States faction.

    The only issue would probably be their unit roster - they'd likely have to use a mix of Arabic and Crusader units (+some AoR units), since they wouldn't be a major faction that would need a full roster.
    Last edited by jan_boruta; January 21, 2016 at 09:24 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jan_boruta View Post
    Interesting idea, but with this version I didn't really want to go into hypothetical factions with the emergents. Between the early AD's and 1947 there wasn't really a Jewish kingdom that I could refer to. If others in the team could voice their opinion on that? I could add it to the Palestine province, since the Kingdom of Jerusalem is pretty much represented by the Crusader States faction.

    The only issue would probably be their unit roster - they'd likely have to use a mix of Arabic and Crusader units (+some AoR units), since they wouldn't be a major faction that would need a full roster.

    I don't really know about Jewish Kingdoms but at school we were taught that Khazar Turks were converted to Judaism. Maybe you could do something with (Kingdom of) Khazaria in the north of the caspian sea since they are one of the rare Jewish states. Even though they didn't exist in 1212, it would be nice to see a possibility of a Jewish state. Take a look at them here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars

  14. #14

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jan_boruta View Post
    Indeed. In the very first version of the religion map I had Nestorianism representing the oriental Christian denominations centered in Assyria, so it'll be good to bring it back. It's nice of CA to include this Christian denomination in the base game, will be easier to just use it instead of creating a religion from scratch.
    Since we're on the subject of religion, is there going to be a Zoroastrian minority somewhere? IIRC it was still strong around Yazd (which is in the Isfahan province, I believe) and some the Eastern limits of the former Sassanid empire (I don't remember how far the Atilla map goes, but around Bukhara and Khwarezm). Maybe a minority in those places with some decent local tradition bonus. Would be cool to be able to convert if you destroy the Muslim influence there, but maybe too inconsequential for the mod.

  15. #15
    FrozenmenSS's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    can you give southern Italy some Orthodox christian minority.It it started to decline in the 11th lasted until the probably 14th century in Magna Graecia.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenmenSS View Post
    can you give southern Italy some Orthodox christian minority.It it started to decline in the 11th lasted until the probably 14th century in Magna Graecia.
    Thank you, I'll investigate. Religion map will probably see some more changes, especially when it will come to determining all the minorities. There can be multiple minorities in a province, I just didn't want to make the map super confusing by introducing multiple tiny stripes. So what I think I'll be doing is make a text list of all the provinces and their religions.

    Quote Originally Posted by OutsiderKK View Post
    Forgive my ignorance but can you tell me how will emergent factions appear?
    There are two ways they can appear.
    a) there is a rebellion (usually due to low public order) in the region that contains an emergent faction. If the emergent rebel army is not killed, they will try and capture the settlement in the region the rebels have spawned. They usually win, unless the faction they rebel against has a bigger army nearby.
    b) when a faction conquers a region containing an emergent faction it can choose to liberate it, which will immediately grant the faction ownership of the region and a small starting army, and make it the liberating faction's military ally automatically.

    The question worth investigating is to set the remaining regions as starting factions' "core", so you could liberate them later, when they get conquered (probably will happen with HRE vassals all the time). Some one province minors have their provinces claimed by an emergent faction, so some could disappear permanently. But in my opinion that only helps with the unpredictability aspect of the campaign.
    Last edited by jan_boruta; January 20, 2016 at 01:12 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Thanks, and by the way it will be better if you write the names "Aq Qoyunlu "," Qara Qoyunlu" like "Ak Koyunlu "," Kara Koyunlu". Because I have seen many people pronouncing them wrong when they were written with "Q". They mostly try to pronounce it like "Quara Quoyunlu",Aqu Quoyunlu; which are wrong. In Turkish, they are written and pronounced the way it is written with "K" in English. Or just call them White Sheep Turkomans and Black Sheep Turkomans

  18. #18

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OutsiderKK View Post
    Or just call them White Sheep Turkomans and Black Sheep Turkomans
    Haha, I wanted to avoid that, those names are so long. But when we'll have full names like Grand Principality of Kiev in the game, it's probably okay to use the translated versions... I'll give it some thought, maybe someone from the team could voice their opinion too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vonchiefer View Post
    You could sink part of the map.
    Yes, but there's no point in doing that if the vanilla map shape is good, and especially when we can't change the type of settlement from inland to coastal. Unless I don't know something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caucasian Iberia View Post
    Alania was orthodox peoples not central asian pagans.
    Seems you are right. I'll amend that, thanks!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Forgive my ignorance but can you tell me how will emergent factions appear?

  20. #20

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

    Alania was orthodox peoples not central asian pagans.

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