Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

[tmina32]

Croatia is now overpowerd and much bigger than it was(balance is lost )

Land does not count ! BUT CITIES DO !

Doesn't Serbia have 2 cities as well?

[FrozenmenSS]

And I think the balance in Dalmatia is perfect. The mod team already said that Hungary will be underdeveloped as regions and buildings.I see no porblems with that = problem solved

[SerbianWOLF]

Doesn't Serbia have 2 cities as well?

Yes, so ? At that time Serbia was more powerful than Croatia(without Hungary,ofc). I just say that Croatia may seem stronger and larger than it was.
FrozenmenSS: IF mod team said so than it is OK. Just hope there will be no insulted souls because of my opinion.

[tmina32]

Yes, so ? At that time Serbia was more powerful than Croatia(without Hungary,ofc).

I agree, inasmuch it was independent.
And since Croatia is a vassal faction, which is a feature of this game, there's no reason to limit Croatia to a single settlement.

[SerbianWOLF]

Than Ok. It might look larger, but whatever.

[Subotai!]

Map looks great jan, everybody else let the team work!

[+Marius+]

I love how people have issue with Croatia getting back...you know, Croatia, while leisurely accepting the very existence of Lombardy.

Priorities.

[SerbianWOLF]

Why do I have some kind of feeling this was on me ? I don't think anyone here mentioned word 'existance' for Croatia. No one said: ''Hey, what the hell they do here''. Some people just think Croatian faction may be over powered and over siezed with all of Dalmatia. No one threats, no one wants trouble. We talk. No need feeling sad, angry, nationalistic about a game !

[Fanest]

That province of Salona or Split or whatever will be called in the game really shouldn't be Croatian, after all not that many Croatians lived in those lands let alone in the cities. It should either be given directly to Hungarians or Venice or better yet make a new Venetian-style tributary state of the Hungarians. That region should also have high rebel chance since in those years it changed its allegiance constantly.

[jan_boruta]

while leisurely accepting the very existence of Lombardy.

At this point I'd rather keep Lombardy as an ambiguous Lombard League rather than two separate factions that need their unique family trees and rosters. That whole place was a mess and a two-province faction like Lombardy could be an easier to handle, entry-level Italian faction. It also strikes a nice balance: Pisa, Genoa, Venice, Lombardy and a nearby Austria all have two regions. Italian factions, in contrast to factions like Hungary and Croatia, can start with well-developed cities, at least level 2 main building and some commercial infrastructure.

In any case, I updated the main map and emergent factions map. I'm not updating it further to allow the rest of the team to work on the startpos without the prospect of drastic changes along the line. Also I don't want to pay much heed to the discussions here as it sucks out most of the enjoyment I got when designing the map. I'm only going to update the religion map as the next step, otherwise I'm going back to 2D artwork for the mod, and some diplomacy + families research.

Changes:
- removed Banu Ghaniya and Ahmadili atabegs (suggested by nnnm) - two factions less to research.
- Hormuz goes to Salghurid atabegs, Adarbadagan gains a town previously in Ahmadili hands
- replaced pagan Prussians with Duchy of (Royal) Prussia as an emergent faction in Pomerania. Figured it would be better to replace an anachronistic predecessor with a viable successor.

[+Marius+]

At this point I'd rather keep Lombardy as an ambiguous Lombard League rather than two separate factions that need their unique family trees and rosters.

I did not mean to split them up, merely to take away Verona from them and give it to Venice.

We talk. No need feeling sad, angry, nationalistic about a game !

In what mindset do you live in where you could possibly even insinuate that any of those three states of mind are present in the discussion.

The last few pages of the thread are more light humor than anything else.

That province of Salona or Split or whatever will be called in the game really shouldn't be Croatian, after all not that many Croatians lived in those lands let alone in the cities.

Utter nonsense.

Croatians and Serbs were the absolute majority in the entire area including every single coastal city as early as the 12th century as the native Romanic population was assimilated and only remained in certain islands as the relative majority.

Even Zadar, the posterchild of medieval Dalmatia and its largest city, was mentioned in 1177 during the visit of the pope as a Slavic city with streets filled with people singing to the pope in their native tongue;

"...cum inmensis laudibus et canticis altisone resonantibus in eorum sclavica lingua"

"Post quartem vero diem exivit Iadera, et per Slavorum insulas et maritimas Ystrie modicas civitates felici cursu transitum faciens, ad monasterium sancti Nicolai, situm in faucibus Rivi alti, cum omni alacritate, Domino auxiliante, pervenit."

- Cardinal Boson

Even the damn islands are mentioned as Slavic.


The "Italianization" of Dalmatia is mostly a 19th/20th century thing, it is only in Istra that they were actually present on the western coast during the middle ages.

[SerbianWOLF]

In what mindset do you live in where you could possibly even insinuate that any of those three states of mind are present in the discussion.

In your comments. You wrote your last comment like someone has 'issues with Croatia'. No one has 'issues'. Just balance of power might go in advantage to Croatian faction. Wich can be ahistorical. Also your comment really make someone think arguing is what you love. And i am not sure those past comments were more 'light humor'.

[+Marius+]

In your comments. You wrote your last comment like someone has 'issues with Croatia'. No one has 'issues'.

Nope, I said issues with Croatia getting back Croatia.

[SerbianWOLF]

Nope, I said issues with Croatia getting back Croatia.

What have you just said ?

[+Marius+]

What have you just said ?

That I stated the clear fact that some people have issues with Croatia getting back the very area that was Croatia at the time, correcting the thought that I perhaps stated that people had issues with Croatia itself ingame, province or two province.

I still stand by my suggestion, Verona is by far a better third settlement for Venice than Split.

[SerbianWOLF]

I have nothing against giving Croatia 3 provinces. I just shared my opinion. You forgot that Dalmatia was not just Croatian, did you ? I just asked. It's over. No need to argue.

[atademir]

Will the Crusades mode?

[+Marius+]

You forgot that Dalmatia was not just Croatian, did you ?

Post #291;

Croatians and Serbs were the absolute majority in the entire area including every single coastal city as early as the 12th century

[SerbianWOLF]

Post #291;

Sorry

[Fanest]

I did not mean to split them up, merely to take away Verona from them and give it to Venice.


In what mindset do you live in where you could possibly even insinuate that any of those three states of mind are present in the discussion.

The last few pages of the thread are more light humor than anything else.



Utter nonsense.

Croatians and Serbs were the absolute majority in the entire area including every single coastal city as early as the 12th century as the native Romanic population was assimilated and only remained in certain islands as the relative majority.

Zadar rebelled and was later sacked by crusaders. After that it was settled by even more Croats.

So
utter nonsense.

On another account Roman citizens defeated Croat duke that was appointed to rule in Split, simply because he was Croatian - u can read about it more in Thomas the Archdeacon works.

Anyway by by your account Aquileia region should be given to Austria since Slavs and Lombards who occupied wast majority of this region there were pretty much all Austrian subjects? Even many big important coastal cities were Austrian. Why have Venice at all - seriously?