Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Campaign Map Master Thread

[Dude with the Food]

It might be easier to give the TO mainly none Teutonic units to start with showing they weren't heavily involved in the Baltic region at the start but give Hungary a building allowing recruitment at the cost of public order that exists at the start but if destroyed can't be rebuilt.

[jan_boruta]

Eh, just giving them Riga and making them a normal starting faction is less of a hassle than trying to stretch the game to conform to history and invent stuff like a Teutonic horde in Hungary. Let's just accept it as a simpler, necessary evil.

[Inyk]

Eh, just giving them Riga and making them a normal starting faction is less of a hassle than trying to stretch the game to conform to history and invent stuff like a Teutonic horde in Hungary. Let's just accept it as a simpler, necessary evil.

Judging from the engine of the game, I did not expect another answer
Now all ardent historians can show my post "barter"

[warman222]

Yeah I personally really like the recent changes you've made there Jan. The Crusader States do look better divided. I'm going to look over the playable faction list and adjust it with these recent new divisions. Once I got this nonsense figured out, maybe you should adjust the icons picture with just the playable factions.

[jan_boruta]

Sure thing, let me know what the final list is when you revise it. I can make a map of playable factions as well for better visual feedback - though truth be told, most of the map will be filled with playable factions anyway.

So, that only makes the religion map to be updated with some details and fixes. I'll be able to get back to making UI reskins and - finally - to some family trees and diplomacy research. Plus, in regards to religion, I like that recent DLCs for Attila gave some basis for new building chains - Eastern Christianity, Islam, and upcoming Slavic religious buildings that could possibly be used for the mod's Baltic paganism with some naming changes.

[Ashe]

Eh, just giving them Riga and making them a normal starting faction is less of a hassle than trying to stretch the game to conform to history and invent stuff like a Teutonic horde in Hungary. Let's just accept it as a simpler, necessary evil.

In fact i'm total fine with the current version of the thing and have a Teutonic Riga at start, that was just some ideas if a day you want to remove the baltic region from their control but don't want to give them an Hungarian region.
(but i'm not sure than a Teutonic hord was more invented than an Norwegian horde :p )

Sorry if my post bother you, it was not the purpose.

[jan_boruta]

No worries Ashe.

Norwegian horde is just a clunky way of implementing that faction since they have no regions we could put them in - while the Teutonic Order has one. There was an idea to make Norway emergent in Scotland, or to give them one of the Scottish regions, but that just weakens Scotland beyond repair - the northernmost region (Inverness) is a major city. So the horde is a compromise.

Though one has to wonder, what about the hordes' buildings? Nomadic factions (Tatars, Mongols) and the Marinids could use horde buildings from vanilla (Hunnic and Tanukhid chains). But Norway? Would Roman Expedition building chain from TLR work for them, with some names changed? I didn't play TLR yet (nor too much of AoC yet as well), so it's just a shout-out to the powers that be and know the other campaigns. (Finix )

[FrozenmenSS]

No worries Ashe.

Norwegian horde is just a clunky way of implementing that faction since they have no regions we could put them in - while the Teutonic Order has one. There was an idea to make Norway emergent in Scotland, or to give them one of the Scottish regions, but that just weakens Scotland beyond repair - the northernmost region (Inverness) is a major city. So the horde is a compromise.

Though one has to wonder, what about the hordes' buildings? Nomadic factions (Tatars, Mongols) and the Marinids could use horde buildings from vanilla (Hunnic and Tanukhid chains). But Norway? Would Roman Expedition building chain from TLR work for them, with some names changed? I didn't play TLR yet (nor too much of AoC yet as well), so it's just a shout-out to the powers that be and know the other campaigns. (Finix )

I played 300 turns campaign TLR with the roman expedition,reached the late loyalist victory by giving all land to ERE and then I went full Separetist and still won on legendary against all odds. Now I dont think the Reclaim option from the Roman expedition is fitting for Norway. But the Vanilla Hunnic and Samaritan subcultures (they are the 100% same) fits perfectly the Nomadic factions (Tatars, Mongols) and the Marinids could use horde buildings from vanilla Tanukhids.

[+Marius+]

Should the Peloponnese not be ruled by the principality of Achaea?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Achaea

[FrozenmenSS]

Should the Peloponnese not be ruled by the principality of Achaea?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Achaea

Both The Principality of Achaea/Morea as names are correct. I dont see problems there

[jan_boruta]

Yeah, they're essentially the same faction. The name on the map is mostly for orientation, as I didn't include full faction names to save space (like "Kingdom of..." or "Duchy of..." etc.). I assume that in the mod itself all factions will have full names, and some could have their names changed when fulfilling certain missions or campaign objectives, as it happens on AoC.

Thanks Frozenmen - I'll take a look at TLR today as well. I didn't mean the Expedition's reclaim mechanic. Instead I think that Norway will need a "feudal" horde building design if they are to survive for a while. Unless their only challenge will be to defeat Sweden and settle immediately. It will possibly be a faction that will only be succesful in player's hands, but at least there'll be an opportunity to command Norway in such a way, just so the Nordic triad is complete.

[+Marius+]

My bad, I never really thought of the principality under that name, I was always of the impression that "Morea" was reserved for the later formed Despotate.

I apologize for even insinuating that the devs could confuse the two.

[Swarbs]

Yeah I personally really like the recent changes you've made there Jan. The Crusader States do look better divided. I'm going to look over the playable faction list and adjust it with these recent new divisions. Once I got this nonsense figured out, maybe you should adjust the icons picture with just the playable factions.

Agree with the Crusader States being split. It's more historic and I also suspect that, in the same way the Ebdanians, Picts and Caledonians are very effective at dismembered WRE Britain in vanilla, the three Crusader States will be more effective at holding their own and potentially pushing back the Abbasids in the Levant.

Although jan I am surprised to see Dalmatia now has Split and is in Croatian hands, after you said the Balkans was all sorted and no more changes made a few months back. Did Marius simply wear you down with his constant nagging?

Seriously tho', is Venice not now a bit ahistorically weak with only one minor city in Italy to try and hold against a huge Hungary and potential threats from the HRE?

[jan_boruta]

Did Marius simply wear you down with his constant nagging?

Yes. ;__________;

Seriously tho', is Venice not now a bit ahistorically weak with only one minor city in Italy to try and hold against a huge Hungary and potential threats from the HRE?

It can be beefed up with: developed cities, lots of starting trade agreements, extra income in the faction trait. In all honesty, I think I prefer a nice, round and full Croatia, it just has a pleasing shape. I think we're all too afraid about factions being eliminated too soon as if the game was EU4, and forget that it's Total War, everyone eliminates everyone eventually. AI is way too random to ensure that all the factions survive, and Venice will simply be a challenging faction - as it probably should be, unlike babby's first civs like France or England.

[Dude with the Food]

Thanks Frozenmen - I'll take a look at TLR today as well. I didn't mean the Expedition's reclaim mechanic. Instead I think that Norway will need a "feudal" horde building design if they are to survive for a while. Unless their only challenge will be to defeat Sweden and settle immediately. It will possibly be a faction that will only be succesful in player's hands, but at least there'll be an opportunity to command Norway in such a way, just so the Nordic triad is complete.

There might be away of dealing with Norway. It might be possible to create a new permanent version of encamped stance. Let it allow a full building tree/recruitment but without the ability to change to any other stance. Basically, the army becomes a 'city' like any other and new armies/agents will all come from that one. If you make it cost something like a 200% turn meter to enter that stance then it's basically impossible for the faction to gain any more than the one (or two in Scotland) it starts with.

I can't at the moment think of a way of stopping all Norwegian armies building the enter construction tree and other than the 1/2 'settled' armies they start with others would represent 'true' armies and really shouldn't be allowed to build more than a couple of training grounds/craftsmen. After all, they aren't supposed to represent centres of organization.

There might be a problem in Norway losing all its buildings when they take over a city. If you had someone like Mitch in the modding team you could allow this stance to carry over after settling so Norway doesn't lose all its infrastructure for the sake of a city but I don't know how possible it is to give a settled faction horde buildings. It might be easier just giving a -(a lot)% upkeep for a few turns after claiming somewhere as their new homeland.

I don't know how viable this all is, I was just suggesting a few ideas that might work within game limitations.

[Tuskin]

Sharifate of Mecca aka The Emirate of Mecca: Mecca(vassal for the Ayyubids)

The Sharifate or Emirate of Mecca was a state based in the Hejaz. After the fall of the Fatamids, dynastic conflicts broke out in Mecca. In 1200 Qatada ibn Idris seized control of the Sharifate of Mecca and Sultan Al-Kamil recognized Qatada ibn Idris as the Emir of Mecca. He also was known as a very ambitious man, he attempted expansions of his territory into central Arabia and Yemen. Qatada ibn Idris ruled Mecca from 1200 to his death in 1220 and he also founded a dynasty that held the title of Sharif of Mecca until 1925.

[+Marius+]

Did Marius simply wear you down with his constant nagging?

I have done nothing but my duty and obligation to historical accuracy

No longer shall every single map online show Venice having all of Dalmatia through the entire middle ages, no longer shall all historical maps show Venice having inland possessions like they owned the place all along.

It ends now.

Croatia stronk

Seriously tho', is Venice not now a bit ahistorically weak with only one minor city in Italy to try and hold against a huge Hungary and potential threats from the HRE?

Venice still has more territory than it actually did at the time.

Pump up Venice in other ways, it was a city state after all, stop treating it as an empire.

[zsimmortal]

Venice still has more territory than it actually did at the time.

In what world? They're missing Euboea, the Duchy of Naxos, Koroni, the Duchy of Durazzo, Korfu, Ragusa and their dominance of Istria and Dalmatia (most of which can't be done due to map coding, granted).

Pump up Venice in other ways, it was a city state after all, stop treating it as an empire.

This is semantics. The Roman republic was a city-state controlled empire, as was the 'Aztec empire', or the Delian league. It would suck to see Venice being anything less than a major power in the Eastern mediterranean because some people feel the need to pump the tires of minor kingdoms. Gameplay trumps all.

[jan_boruta]

Dr. Marius Or Why I Stopped Caring And Learned To Love Croatia

[Kjertesvein]

In what world? They're missing Euboea, the Duchy of Naxos, Koroni, the Duchy of Durazzo, Korfu, Ragusa and their dominance of Istria and Dalmatia (most of which can't be done due to map coding, granted).



This is semantics. The Roman republic was a city-state controlled empire, as was the 'Aztec empire', or the Delian league. It would suck to see Venice being anything less than a major power in the Eastern mediterranean because some people feel the need to pump the tires of minor kingdoms. Gameplay trumps all.

The capital of Venice is now a single minor settlement surrounded by 3 factions with 2 regions each (Austria, Lombardy and Croatia, of which the two latter factions have walled cities). Venice also has a minor settlement on an island it needs to defend, far away. It's supposedly getting buffs to compensate, so I guess it's going to be an interesting starting faction.

~Wille