How do you actually conquer the steppes and what are the gains?

**Tactics Mayers** · January 20, 2016, 03:09 AM

How do occupy the lands of the nomads? Do you basically kick out all those nomadic tribes and then subjugate the settled tribes and farmers working the land and tell them you are now the new master? What are the gains in taking those nomadic lands?

**QuintusSertorius** · January 20, 2016, 04:50 AM

With the exception of nomadic factions or the Bosporans, I think the prospects for gain are pretty limited. Unless you either want to stop marauders attacking your frontier settlements, or have an egotistical FM who wants to achieve what even Alexander never did, leave well alone.

**nvm** · January 20, 2016, 05:57 AM

Some steppe regions, like near modern Ukraine are actually pretty rich and probably could be easily settled with enough effort. But yeah, there's not much gain in it besides stopping nomadic raids. I think in this period settled factions did not actually need "living space". It was the nomads who did, which added another reason to leave them alone - having their own living space would mean they are less likely to raid yours, unless they already do.

**Genghis Skahn** · January 20, 2016, 09:10 AM

Stopping nomadic raids is no small gain, and lets not forget that you'll get access to steppe units(a proper counter to nomadic raiders, and very useful auxiliaries imo). Controlling the vast steppes is difficult, so I suggest only taking a part of it as a settled faction(the part closest to you).

More on settled vs. nomadic peoples and their wars...Defeating Steppe peoples was no small task, as unlike settled peoples whose civilizations were centered around permanent villages and cities, the nomads moved from season to season--and if they found an enemy too great, they merely migrated somewhere else(usually westward). In contrast to settled peoples, who are crippled when their homes are taken from them, or destroyed. Unfortunately, the TW games have never been able to truly represent(hording is a good method, but still not necessarily accurate) the difficulty in destroying/defeating a nomadic people.

Anyone interested in the subject should read about the Han dynasty's wars with the Xiongnu. The accounts of which are an incredible manual on how to fight a nomadic people as a settled people and succeed. It seems that the Han did not or could not control the steppe areas too far north of their own territory. Huge destructive expeditions are mentioned being sent northward against the Xiongnu, but not much seemed to be mentioned about actually occupying Mongolia or those areas afterwards. Maps of the Han dynasty also typically do not include much of that area under direct Han control. Whether the Han installed allied rulers there or not, I do not know and I know of no mention of it; although my knowledge is limited on the subject. It is possible the the Han weren't interested in controlling so vast and unprofitable an area, I don't know myself.

There are obviously mentions of extensive horse breeding done to increase cavalry numbers to such numbers that they could properly fight the Xiongnu--definitely a tactic to keep in mind when fighting the nomads yourself. Although the sophisticated nature of Chinese military technology was very important in their victory as well.

**Tactics Mayers** · January 20, 2016, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Genghis Skahn

Stopping nomadic raids is no small gain, and lets not forget that you'll get access to steppe units(a proper counter to nomadic raiders, and very useful auxiliaries imo). Controlling the vast steppes is difficult, so I suggest only taking a part of it as a settled faction(the part closest to you).

More on settled vs. nomadic peoples and their wars...Defeating Steppe peoples was no small task, as unlike settled peoples whose civilizations were centered around permanent villages and cities, the nomads moved from season to season--and if they found an enemy too great, they merely migrated somewhere else(usually westward). In contrast to settled peoples, who are crippled when their homes are taken from them, or destroyed. Unfortunately, the TW games have never been able to truly represent(hording is a good method, but still not necessarily accurate) the difficulty in destroying/defeating a nomadic people.

Anyone interested in the subject should read about the Han dynasty's wars with the Xiongnu. The accounts of which are an incredible manual on how to fight a nomadic people as a settled people and succeed. It seems that the Han did not or could not control the steppe areas too far north of their own territory. Huge destructive expeditions are mentioned being sent northward against the Xiongnu, but not much seemed to be mentioned about actually occupying Mongolia or those areas afterwards. Maps of the Han dynasty also typically do not include much of that area under direct Han control. Whether the Han installed allied rulers there or not, I do not know and I know of no mention of it; although my knowledge is limited on the subject. It is possible the the Han weren't interested in controlling so vast and unprofitable an area, I don't know myself.

There are obviously mentions of extensive horse breeding done to increase cavalry numbers to such numbers that they could properly fight the Xiongnu--definitely a tactic to keep in mind when fighting the nomads yourself. Although the sophisticated nature of Chinese military technology was very important in their victory as well.

Didn't the Chinese employ an effective divide and conquer strategy in which they would give gifts and titles to a nomadic clan to defeat another nomadic clan or something like that?

**Sint** · January 20, 2016, 12:24 PM

effective

No.Not effectiv.

**delra** · January 20, 2016, 01:27 PM

I'd prefer if the steppe was impossible to conquer and was a source of very powerul and aggressive rebels attacking player's settlements neighbouring them.

**Genghis Skahn** · January 20, 2016, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Tactics Mayers

Didn't the Chinese employ an effective divide and conquer strategy in which they would give gifts and titles to a nomadic clan to defeat another nomadic clan or something like that?

They likely did so, however from from my experiences reading about the Xiongnu-Han conflict, the Chinese also put a lot of blood and sweat of the state towards directly fighting the Xiongnu themselves, as the Xiongnu had been traditionally raiding China's north for quite some time. It seems the Han wanted to end this raiding and committed a lot of energy to destroying the Xiongnu, and at the very least chased them from the region, if not completely destroy their power structure.