Why can't I ally?

[JANOSIK007]

I have a problem getting alliances. Not that I am getting refused. I simply don't have that option available.

I am not at war with a faction allied to the one I would like to ally with. Our relations are above reasonable. My reputation is dubious (I have no idea why since I never broke an agreement), but I was able to ally some time ago with England.

I am trying to do this with poland (we are at war with the same faction) and papacy (we are on the best of terms). What gives?

[mercja]

I have noticed this also and it could be the fact that you are trying to ally with a faction that is allied to a faction you are at war with or on bad relations. I noticed that was the case for me when I was England and tried to ally with HRE who was allied to France whom I was at war with.

But I could be wrong.

[imb39]

I have noticed this also and it could be the fact that you are trying to ally with a faction that is allied to a faction you are at war with or on bad relations. I noticed that was the case for me when I was England and tried to ally with HRE who was allied to France whom I was at war with.

But I could be wrong.

I think that's it. As I am often at war, my options for allying are limited. Still a static army is wasting my money...

[arnel98]

usually, the best time to ally with any nation is during the first 5 turns, as they are much more willing at that time...(you can even get as much as 1,500 to 5,000 florins from them, just ake sure you offer - alliance, map and trade rights at the same time).

[PSYCHO V]

Yes, you can't ally with a nation that is alllied with your enemy...effectively forcing them to choose between the two of you. If you wish to gain an alliance you either first have to make peace with the afending faction or pay off / coax / bribe your would-be allies into attacking the aforementioned.

Clear as mud?

[Nebuchadnezzar]

usually, the best time to ally with any nation is during the first 5 turns, as they are much more willing at that time...(you can even get as much as 1,500 to 5,000 florins from them, just ake sure you offer - alliance, map and trade rights at the same time).

Geez, thats exploiting!

As soon as you have a border with an ally they attack you so whats the point? No epic ally army reinforcements like in RTW here.

Attack them first then ask for a ceasfire. In early game you might get twice that.

Ive got cities in exchange for traderights! In mid game lol!

[carl-the-conqueror]

I have noticed this also and it could be the fact that you are trying to ally with a faction that is allied to a faction you are at war with or on bad relations. I noticed that was the case for me when I was England and tried to ally with HRE who was allied to France whom I was at war with.

But I could be wrong.

that reminds me of when my allys (HRE+denmark) kept allying with england (whom i was beseiging at the time, the seige kept being broken, who needs enemies when you have freinds like that !

[Fuhrer Euik]

I had some trouble with this. I had not looked into the relations with their allies though. You might have something there, Mercja.

[JANOSIK007]

I am not at war with a faction allied to the one I would like to ally with. Our relations are above reasonable. My reputation is dubious (I have no idea why since I never broke an agreement), but I was able to ally some time ago with England.

Lemme quote myself. I am not at war and looked into relations at detail. There is no reason, or maybe another reason escapes me.

One idea that just came to me (a briliant idea) is that maybe CA employed the old realist theory of balancing. That is medium powers will balance against the rising power to maintain equilibrium. Maybe factions are avoiding my alliance because of this fact. If that is it, CA is indeed briliant. If it's just a glitch, too bad. Another part of the theory talks how small countries bandwagon with the strongest out of fear of retaliation or they may join the other camp because of great incentives being offered to them. So in the same line of logic, small states in proximity of my mighty venetian empire should bandwagon, but they didn't, so I killed them. Not even ceasefire. If your demise is all but uncertain, becoming a vassal (bandwagon) should only sparsly ever be rejeced. And only when significant changes in the power structure occur should the subservient states attempt to change their status, as such. Only if all that were to be true...

[Tiwaz]

Lemme quote myself. I am not at war and looked into relations at detail. There is no reason, or maybe another reason escapes me.

One idea that just came to me (a briliant idea) is that maybe CA employed the old realist theory of balancing. That is medium powers will balance against the rising power to maintain equilibrium. Maybe factions are avoiding my alliance because of this fact. If that is it, CA is indeed briliant. If it's just a glitch, too bad. Another part of the theory talks how small countries bandwagon with the strongest out of fear of retaliation or they may join the other camp because of great incentives being offered to them. So in the same line of logic, small states in proximity of my mighty venetian empire should bandwagon, but they didn't, so I killed them. Not even ceasefire. If your demise is all but uncertain, becoming a vassal (bandwagon) should only sparsly ever be rejeced. And only when significant changes in the power structure occur should the subservient states attempt to change their status, as such. Only if all that were to be true...

Actually they are rather willing to ally even with strong powers. Though it goes with success.

French pulled stupid stunt in one of my games and lost 1/3 of their territory to me. They immediately accepted ceasefire (tried to get Paris back but were happy to settle without it).
Similarily at same time HRE went to war with me. And bit later on Denmark.

Here is the kicker, HRE and France took a hit on the wars and made it possible for Denmark to backstab them (before attacking me)

As a result it appears that my stellar reputation made ME preferable ally over Denmark or other backstabbers so they offered me alliance (including demand to France to marry their princess to my heir which turned out good)

[JANOSIK007]

Is it the reputation then?

Because I have Dubious, but I have no idea why? I never backstabbed any one. Maybe the merchant warfare that I am currently dominating the world with is taking a hit at my soft power.

[happyho]

Is it the reputation then?

Because I have Dubious, but I have no idea why? I never backstabbed any one. Maybe the merchant warfare that I am currently dominating the world with is taking a hit at my soft power.

One thing that I think will affect your reputation is if you try to remain allied with two factions that are at war. When you are allied with for example with France and HRE and they are also allied with each other, if you go to war with the HRE, the AI has to choose who France will remain allied with. That of course is why you may receive the 'Alliance in Tatters' message. If you try to sit on the fence and support both factions I think that logically that will anger BOTH factions. Thus giving you the 'dubious' reputation, that is perhaps the cause.

[JANOSIK007]

Where are people getting that? Or that I attacked an ally.

I never instigated a war with anyone. I was the one attacked and I finnished them off.

I think CA should explain their diplomacy better to us, so we can utilize it to its maximum potential.

[Pnutmaster]

Is it the reputation then?

Because I have Dubious, but I have no idea why? I never backstabbed any one. Maybe the merchant warfare that I am currently dominating the world with is taking a hit at my soft power.

My reputation is usually dubious by turn ten. What puzzles me is that I occupy myself with simple diplomacy and micro-managing up to that point. No military action whatsoever. Does the AI interpret my offers of map information and spare florrins as devious? Perhaps...

[Atillium]

Does the faction reputation possibly have a link with the traits of the faction leader?

Anyway, I've been playing a campaign with the HRE for like 60 turns now. At the start I destroyed Denmark in a few turns; they have nowhere to go but in my direction so war with them was inevitable. Did get me excommunicated, which was just as well as that meant I didn't have to join any crusades the first decades. Married a Hongarian princess to my faction heir, made an alliance with Poland as well. Left Bologna for the picking as it sits in between Milan, Venice and Sicily so defending it will lead to a war.

All those things I managed in the first 10 turns. After that I expanded into Scandinavia and took over some territories bordering Poland.

Apart from a few short wars with Venice I've not had any other wars with Poland, Hongary, France or Milan which are all bordering me. To me, that's major progress over RTW where war was absolutely inevitable whenever you bordered another nation. Although diplomacy is not perfect in MTW2, I'd say it's a lot better than in RTW. Thumbs up for CA!

[Regs]

I allied with the Spanish for one whole turn (after they offered) and then they blockaded one of my ports 1 turn after. Then they offered a cease fire one turn after they attacked....and guess what? A whole turn later they offered another alliance o_O. I was foolish to accept it to think it wouldn't happen again but live and learn it did. I was betrayed 2 times in a row. How is this possible? They offered a ceasefire again a turn later but I refused and got pissed. Then took Toledo with 3 trebuchets and 5 cards of feudal knights.

Even with the #1 military and #1 financial rank and map position they commit suicide.

[Janissary]

Diplomacy has some bugs nothing more to add.

[JANOSIK007]

Diplomacy has some bugs nothing more to add.

so this is a bug?

But why can I ally sometimes? I thought some conditions had to be met.

But there is something to add, when will it be fized if it's just a bug. And has anyone already reported it?