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Thread: Faction difficulty ratings (your help is needed)

  1. #41

    Default Re: Faction difficulty ratings (your help is needed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    That's an interesting assessment and you're almost certainly right about the first 20 turns of the game. While the Lugiones and Saka usually get crushed in the half a dozen full campaigns I have played for EBII, the Sweboz always build up their strength, expand like a snowball rolling down a hill and gradually develop a northeastern European empire by about turn 500 or so. In my Koinon Hellenon, Epeiros, Makedonia, Pergamon, and Roman campaigns, without fail the Sweboz were always the main enemy in Europe once I conquered the Mediterranean, Black Sea, and Western European regions. The Pritanoi would always have some holdings in continental Europe after uniting the British Isles, but I've managed to conquer the Pritanoi in each of my campaigns going into the 1st century BC. On the other hand, fighting the Sweboz is basically like whack-a-mole, because they can expand into the Baltic and Pontic Steppe regions far outside my empire and maintain a stiff resistance in northern and eastern Germania, where recruitment options become limited for Greeks and to some extent the Romans.

    A combination of the AI money bonus and the Sweboz Tribal Migrations are probably to blame. There seems to be a vicious cycle where the AI's inability to handle the economy gets them into debt, forcing the script to give them a boost, which they then proceed to blow on expensive tribal buildings and quickly replenished soldiers, forcing the script to give them a boost. If you construct 10 Sweboz Tribes, that should amount to 90+ recruitable units that also replenish in short order. On the other hand, a Sweboz player would have to earn all that money and keep a sustainable model.


    Though I agree with Adun that their weak cavalry is a fatal flaw. In my most recent Boioi playthrough, I've only needed modest strength of cavalry and infantry to mass-route up to *four* stacks of Sweboz warriors. Through simple hammer and anvil-ing, I've gotten enough slaves to jumpstart an urban revolution and many of my FMs were proclaimed Epas. My battles as the Sweboz were also more difficult on account of this, up until I conquered the Baltic. It's at the point where making war with the Sweboz is cheesier than stamping them out.

  2. #42
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Faction difficulty ratings (your help is needed)

    The finance script doesn't "give them a boost" when they're in debt, it merely wipes out their debt.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Faction difficulty ratings (your help is needed)

    And limited retrain and recruit options for eleutheroi also comming in the next patch? Because seeing how half of the cities end with golded chevron hercules garrison, just waiting to be conquered by stack of superpowers( most probably of cultured faction - hellenistic or w.meditarenan), while natives struggle even hurt a man with full stack of their own, doesn't seems to me good. That is exactly why AI Seleukids in 90% of cases blitz whole eastern half of map, because they take oddly easily cities + they doesn't get more than 2 enemies at time. The change in lougiones recruitment is real and trully hurts AI - they often achieve to get 3 cities at best only to get steamrolled by sweboz asap. Carthage always take a city with bare loses in Iberia, where Lusitanian or Aureakoi lose thousands. Saka Rauka AI competitivity also decreased by a miles. To Hayastan AI in current version it also takes hundred of turns before they take even one city from caucasus three and i never saw them rebel against seleukids in current version- which slightly improves lifetime of Pontos. Romans too struggle in capturing cisalpine. All of this because of eleutheroi exaggerated capability of retrain and recruit option. Sorry for offtopic. by the way, i almost agree with difficulty rating as is directly in a game.

  4. #44
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Faction difficulty ratings (your help is needed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Maroslav View Post
    And limited retrain and recruit options for eleutheroi also comming in the next patch? Because seeing how half of the cities end with golded chevron hercules garrison, just waiting to be conquered by stack of superpowers( most probably of cultured faction - hellenistic or w.meditarenan), while natives struggle even hurt a man with full stack of their own, doesn't seems to me good. That is exactly why AI Seleukids in 90% of cases blitz whole eastern half of map, because they take oddly easily cities + they doesn't get more than 2 enemies at time. The change in lougiones recruitment is real and trully hurts AI - they often achieve to get 3 cities at best only to get steamrolled by sweboz asap. Carthage always take a city with bare loses in Iberia, where Lusitanian or Aureakoi lose thousands. Saka Rauka AI competitivity also decreased by a miles. To Hayastan AI in current version it also takes hundred of turns before they take even one city from caucasus three and i never saw them rebel against seleukids in current version- which slightly improves lifetime of Pontos. Romans too struggle in capturing cisalpine. All of this because of eleutheroi exaggerated capability of retrain and recruit option. Sorry for offtopic. by the way, i almost agree with difficulty rating as is directly in a game.
    All the refresh rates have been flattened in the govslave since v2.3, from a base of 0.04 to 0.03, and lower for some other regions (to 0.025 or 0.02). Can't do anything about the experience of units, that's a function of auto-calc and revolts.

    Different factions performing different in different games is fine.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Faction difficulty ratings (your help is needed)

    @Maroslave: Not to undermine your argument, as I believe these are points to consider. That being said, although I cannot speak for the all of those factions you have noted (Lougiones, Sweboz, and Saka Rauka), my experience (approaching 150 turns) does provide some contrary evidence. Carthage has not been able to expand into Iberia, Lusitania is doing solidly and are slowly expanding, as are their neighbors. Hayastan has also expanded to a few settlements. The Seleukids are still around what they were at the beginning of the campaign, having lost and re-captured numerous territories.

    I actually like the current eleuthoroi approach. I believe that expansion rates would be too fast without it. Perhaps, further tweaks can help find that sweet spot.

    According to my personal experience, I would be interested to if anyone else has found Carthage struggling in their campaigns? That is the only faction which has significantly under-performed in my current campaign.

  6. #46
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Faction difficulty ratings (your help is needed)

    Quote Originally Posted by charlieh View Post
    @Maroslave: Not to undermine your argument, as I believe these are points to consider. That being said, although I cannot speak for the all of those factions you have noted (Lougiones, Sweboz, and Saka Rauka), my experience (approaching 150 turns) does provide some contrary evidence. Carthage has not been able to expand into Iberia, Lusitania is doing solidly and are slowly expanding, as are their neighbors. Hayastan has also expanded to a few settlements. The Seleukids are still around what they were at the beginning of the campaign, having lost and re-captured numerous territories.

    I actually like the current eleuthoroi approach. I believe that expansion rates would be too fast without it. Perhaps, further tweaks can help find that sweet spot.

    According to my personal experience, I would be interested to if anyone else has found Carthage struggling in their campaigns? That is the only faction which has significantly under-performed in my current campaign.
    Precisely, what is reassuring is that people give different reports from different games as to how each faction performs. It's no longer a foregone conclusion that Makedonia wins in Greece than invades Anatolia, for example.

    Carthage will have a financial boost in 2.35A from the highly productive agricultural regions they hold, which might help.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Faction difficulty ratings (your help is needed)

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Precisely, what is reassuring is that people give different reports from different games as to how each faction performs. It's no longer a foregone conclusion that Makedonia wins in Greece than invades Anatolia, for example.

    Carthage will have a financial boost in 2.35A from the highly productive agricultural regions they hold, which might help.
    I saw a while back that there were financial boosts to Ptolemy being discussed, will that be in the patch?

    Also I know that you can't give an ETA, but can you can give an idea of what's actually going to be included in the patch? Might make the waiting a little easier

  8. #48

    Default Re: Faction difficulty ratings (your help is needed)

    I actually play a pritanoi campaign just for observing purpose.(just captured British island w/o intervention into mainland).I am aware that it would require many more games to claim something as objective argument. And what I have seen so far even reject my earlier observations regarding Seleukids, which will soon meet with their forefathers by a hands of all those dirty easterling factions. I am currently on turn 210. Macedonia captured all the Greece except ambrakia revolted and recovered Epirus. They even pushed Pergamon into Ankyra and made them city state again.(perhaps their single success so far in my 2.35 games, its always epirus or Greece who prevailed). Sweboz as always rule Germany but somehow struggle to push more forward beyond Boii and capture another rebel cities west in Celtic lands. Lugiones as always are soon to meet their fate,live on move and it will take just few more arrows for sarmatians.By the way they were already expelled by getai from their homeland. On west part of the map goes everything as usual as in my previous games. On east part though, thanks to dying seleukids, new powers begin to grow and interesting new order begin. Each faction which have fought seleukids bitten off their own piece of cake, most off it nabataea which became solid 11 city eastern empire. In anatolia ptolemais unsuccessfully try to defend against growing pontos and 1 city pergamon tremble between their conflict in ankyra. Parthia,which grew and fell in their past seleukid wars, survived in nysaia long enough ,that they could also grab few cakes from grey plague once great war against seleukids began. On eastern most corner of map baktria, which seemed sovereign successor for seleukid eastern part of empire, now struggle to preserve their 5 city kingdom and India + saka at bay. From south Sabai begin their invasion against ptolemais and already took Ethiopia,diamat and erythreia while yellows have been occupied by pontus and other minor skirmishes. They in fact collapsing already just against much weaker pontus + sabai now and they are lucky that Carthage isn't opportunist. Carthage itself fare well enough like in 90% of my games, already wiped out numidians, though they have problems with deal of killing blow to a horde. They are successfully expanding into Iberia and maintain all Sicily, sardinia and corsica. All that slowed down expansion, whatever caused that, play into Carthage Ai cards, which now has more time to transfer their armies from islands alongside all the Mediterranean sea. Very unique and interesting game I witness, being it due to my complete passivity or specific roll of the dice I don't know.

  9. #49
    QuintusSertorius's Avatar EBII Hod Carrier
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    Default Re: Faction difficulty ratings (your help is needed)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aodh Mór Ó Néill View Post
    I saw a while back that there were financial boosts to Ptolemy being discussed, will that be in the patch?

    Also I know that you can't give an ETA, but can you can give an idea of what's actually going to be included in the patch? Might make the waiting a little easier
    Yes, the Ptolemaioi finance changes were in the same modifications as those that impacted Carthage. Some other factions with the most fertile regions benefit as well.

    It would take a bit of time to gather the changes into an intelligible list, it's quite long. There have been 202 Commits to the development build since the release of 2.35, but while some are a single change, others are more sweeping.

  10. #50
    Haydn91's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Faction difficulty ratings (your help is needed)

    I think that Boii recuitment system is too slow.

  11. #51
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Faction difficulty ratings (your help is needed)

    Quintus, I've got my usual request: would there be an option to deal somehow with too much money? Like costly "Offerings to the gods" or a building "Statue" with a few stages and high costs - just for the player to sink money and to have anything out of it. I fear how a Carthage or Ptolemaioi player would be swimming in money.
    As reported, in my Pritanoi VH campaign I had a constant surplus even with recruiting everything possible and building everything possible. It came to 80k and more.

  12. #52
    Lusitanio's Avatar Content Staff
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    Default Re: Faction difficulty ratings (your help is needed)

    There are somethings on the next patch that will help deal with the money. I would say the biggest one is the new rebel spawn that Quintus mentioned here some months ago.
    Personally, I've developed some new events that make a great job dealing with it and if the team likes them, they will be on the next patch

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