Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Empire of Nicaea

[Viva Espana!]

the "Form Kingdom" is a pretty nice feature and historically accurate as well. It would be great if they could include it.

I agree on the rest. One of the major things Medieval II had that was lost in later titles is an unpredictability factor. The ability to "level up" generls and assign them set skills rather than earning them was a major setback as far as I'm concerned.

Is there any way to bring back the semi-random traits/retinue of old?

[Muramasa1794]

I don't see this mod downloadable on steam, someone clarify??

[Three Eyed Crow]

the "Form Kingdom" is a pretty nice feature and historically accurate as well. It would be great if they could include it.

I agree on the rest. One of the major things Medieval II had that was lost in later titles is an unpredictability factor. The ability to "level up" generls and assign them set skills rather than earning them was a major setback as far as I'm concerned.

The Age of Britain Campaign had a good balance of both I found. And definitely forming a kingdom and or gaining titles, Baronies, Counties, Duchies, other Kingdoms make for good short and long term goals. Rebellions by family members who hold titles need to be a thing too.

[Sir Robin]

Absolutely gorgeous. Thank you. Any chance of getting tier 2 and 3 versions of the Kontaratoi?

[jan_boruta]

The options of forming kingdoms/confederations and the "join empire" option will most likely be incorporated in some way, so the Romans will be able to confederate if they're on good enough terms. Combine this with - quite possibly - a mission to retake Constantinople and your faction will be renamed to the Roman Empire. Thanks to AoC for giving the template for such missions.

I just wanted to express my dissatisfaction with pre-determined scripted events that ultimately hinder the player's freedom of choice in a game. The only good things scripts are good for are events from outside of the map (invasions like in Medieval 2), or events that span the entire map (black death, for example). But things like "oh there was a famine in that specific tiny region and that was how that specific empire reacted in such a specific way so let's do it exactly like that in the game!" are ultimately a drawback rather than an interesting game feature. Just my two florins on the subject.

[LeicsFox]

and found my preferred faction

[Scaevola]

Well, its a Byzantine successor state. What is there not to like? What could be more satisfying then bringing culture to those unwashed hordes, who dare to call themselves christian?

[AlexiosThe1st]

I've heard tell that the Varangian Guard does 0 armor piercing damage whereas other two-handed ax units do armor piercing. Why is this the case? Is it to balance the unit?

Thanks in advance!

[Slytacular]

All unit gameplay mechanics and statistics are all work in progress. The team's primary focus are land based units, and in Jan's focus, the campaign map.

[AlexiosThe1st]

Thanks for the reply

An aesthetic and gameplay question for the Varangians as well.

Wouldn't there have been Normans amongst the Varangians at this period? If so, wouldn't we expect to see kite shields on the guardsmen's backs as well?

As for the gameplay, would it be possible to toggle the Varagians in and out of a shield wall? Their primary being the Dane ax, but with the option of toggling a shield wall formation where they take their shields from their backs and draw a sword, just as the foot Ghulam do. This would make the Varangians an extremely versatile unit, and since the unit is already limited to one per army I don't believe it would make them OP.

Thoughts?

[Påsan]

Thanks for the reply

An aesthetic and gameplay question for the Varangians as well.

Wouldn't there have been Normans amongst the Varangians at this period? If so, wouldn't we expect to see kite shields on the guardsmen's backs as well?

As for the gameplay, would it be possible to toggle the Varagians in and out of a shield wall? Their primary being the Dane ax, but with the option of toggling a shield wall formation where they take their shields from their backs and draw a sword, just as the foot Ghulam do. This would make the Varangians an extremely versatile unit, and since the unit is already limited to one per army I don't believe it would make them OP.

Thoughts?

By this time the Varangians would probably be composed of a lot of the children of the original guard. The main influxes to the guard early on was the Rus and Scandinavians. Then a large influx of English housecarls after the Norman harrying of the north deprived many of the Dano-Saxon elite of their lands:

“ . . . the Normans had pressed so hard on the Englishmen that the Emperor moved them to Byzantium and made them into his life-guards . . .” (Orderic Vitalis - ibid p. 147)

then finally the Norwegian Crusade to the holy lands a large portion of the army went into the guard after the crusade to the holy lands was successful.

King Sigurd soon after prepared for his return home. He gave theemperor all his ships; and the valuable figureheads which were onthe king's ships were set up in Peter's church, where they havesince been to be seen. The emperor gave the king many horses andguides to conduct him through all his dominions. Then KingSigurd left Constantinople; but a great many Northmen remained,and went into the emperor's pay

I've never come across a source describing actual Normans in the guard. they generally went into their own mercenary companies rather than the guard companies.


As for Kite shields

In the battle of Beroe says The Emperor “ took his life-guards who had as weapons very long shields and single-edged axes . . .” (Niketas Khoniates - ibid p 151)

and

I believe this is the only artwork featuring Varangians (11 cent) And they are wearing Byzantine armor and round shields

[AlexiosThe1st]

By this time the Varangians would probably be composed of a lot of the children of the original guard. The main influxes to the guard early on was the Rus and Scandinavians. Then a large influx of English housecarls after the Norman harrying of the north deprived many of the Dano-Saxon elite of their lands:


then finally the Norwegian Crusade to the holy lands a large portion of the army went into the guard after the crusade to the holy lands was successful.


I've never come across a source describing actual Normans in the guard. they generally went into their own mercenary companies rather than the guard companies.


As for Kite shields


and

I believe this is the only artwork featuring Varangians (11 cent) And they are wearing Byzantine armor and round shields

I have no qualms with most of what you have said. And indeed, aesthetically I had hoped the Varangians would look more Byzantine than they currently do. On the point of kite shields, however, there is a rather noticable kite shield in the bottom right of the presented image, presumably in the hands of a Varangian. I'm not advocating to have the whole unit carrying kite shields; perhaps 1 in 15?

[AlexiosThe1st]

But a very fine point. There are to my limited knowledge no sources describing Normans in the guard. However, the kite shield was certainly not unique to the Normans, despite often being described as a Norman shield. Forgive a very novice mistake.

[AlexiosThe1st]

Aesthetically, Påsan makes a good point. Should not the Varangians possess more of a Byzantine influence in their armor?

[Ltd.]

The varangians did have among their ranks a lot of normans, so anglovarangians, which I tried to show in their attire. I can give them kite shields, sure. The thing with the shieldwall and a combo of 2h axe and 1h axe + shield is the following. There is a possibility to make an animation where they use both, and switch between the option (automatically and randomly) but they would still use the same weapon, for both the 2h as well as the 1h/shield combo. So either give them a very short 2h weapon , which they can use as 1h as well, or give them a normal 2h daneaxe, and have them wear shields on their backs only for show.
Honestly I prefer the latter option.

[AlexiosThe1st]

Ahh I see. Agreed, Dane ax is better than no Dane ax

[Scaevola]

Its not out yet. It will take time until the first version is ready to roll out.

[Ltd.]

In most modern depictions of the guard that I have seen, they tend to resemble rus and norsemen in their armour. I could give them some more byzantine influenced gear, as they were rather heavily influence by the 13th century, but what makes them apart and original is their nordic look, knowing their specific role.
Obviously they also might have used shieldwall, which incorporates both shield /1h wielding men, as well as their characteristic weapon, a 2h axe. The reasoning behind giving them a 2h axe you can see in an earlier post. So I'd prefer them to have the 2h axe.
Regarding the kite shield: kite shields were slowly getting out of use during the 13th century, being replaced by , e.g, the heater shield. So I'm more in favour of round shields.
Now, what could be done is to make the current varangians a mercenary unit, , and then create a new native varangian guard , guarding only the emperor, basically a 1h axe and sword (or just axe) plus shield combo wielding unit, that would wear predominantly byzantine armour. I am not against this idea.
Any supporters?

[Kjertesvein]

I'm aware that many people here have not played Broken Crescent, and I can respect that. In my post I refer to them as Varangians and Pelekyphoroi. The former were the old iconic unit for the Empire, while the Pelekyphoroi were native greek unit that were recruitable in higher tech, although their stats and look were almost identical. These are my thoughts.

From experience with BC I always felt like the word Varangians carried with it so much pathos from their legend. The elite warrior consistent of viking kings, bad ass terminators of the ancient world and overall drunk "old guard" attitude. The Pelekyphoroi Axemen (axemen-axemen :S) on the other hand were always kinda meh feeling around them. Not sure if I can explain it, but you know that feeling when you read about sons of great people who are born in greatness rather than rose to it? "Yeah, they are ok I guess, but have you heard about the Varangians?! Let me tell you about this interesting story..."
Also, if you add Elite elite units, then you're kind diminishing the grandeur of the elite. The same way, if you add Pelekyphoroi with better stats then you're kinda mitigating the greatness of the Varangians that came before and makes them mediocre. This may sound stupid, that's how I feel it.
1. Please keep the name Varangians in both units, because it carries so much weight. 2. Perhaps if there is something different with the Pelekyphoroi and that they fill a slightly different combat role that the roster lack and won't overshadow the Varangians, but that they compliment each other in the battlefield (not an easy task I admit). I always hated the fact that Varangians and Pelekyphoroi were essentially the same unit in BC, competing for the same spot in the army, but worse name and slightly better stats.

Perhaps the price of reclaiming the empire automatically disables the recruitment of Varangians and replace it with the new Pelekyphoroi. There is a cost to the choice of creating the byzantine empire, which is the new elite replacing the weary old guard. (kinda like upgrading the tech tree in Attila with christian tech, you loose old technology by doing so). It adds a bit of gravity to the situation.

~Wille

[AlexiosThe1st]

I agree in that they should certainly maintain a Norse appeal, but in their current state they seem to be attired rather plainly for an elite Emperor's guard unit. They don't suggest elite of the elite "bad ass terminators" in a pot helm and mail shirt.

I'd also much prefer the retention of the Dane ax, far too iconic to have it removed in my opinion.

By no means am I suggesting the complete removal of the round shield for a kite, rather a handful per unit? This is, after all, the old guard. One can presume a few kite shields would be retained, as per the above image. If this is unreasonable, no worries. It's a very small aesthetic preference.

Very interesting idea with the two varangian units. Just as Kjertesvein, I too feel as if this diminishes the importance of the old varangians. Part of me loves the idea of a new, unique unit added to the game. But part of me loves the preeminence of the varangians as they are. Personally, if you are to introduce a new unit, I'm with Kjert. If it is to be done they should occupy different roles on the battlefield. The unit wielding the Dane ax could be the rather aggressive, shock infi. The shielded unit could then serve a more defensive, "hold the line" role.

Or, perhaps keep the current varangians as they are in stats, and then have the shielded varangian as a High or Late period unit wearing more Byzantine influenced armors.