Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom

[FrozenmenSS]

Искам да видя един форум където българи да не са се хванали за гушите. Обещавам ви, да направя всичко възможно да защитавам и изисквам пред съотборниците ми всяко ваше предложение, стига то да е обосновано и приложимо.
Но искам да не се обиждаме един друг поне тук!

I want to see a forum where bulgarians can't catch each other's throats. I promise to do everything possible to defend and demand to my teammates every yours proposal, as long as it is reasonable and practicable.
But I want do not offend each other at least here, please

The primal Source - the Chronicle is composed by Johann Servion in 1464-1465, according to an old version of 1417-1420 .In spite of his Debatable character and the many errors it is a valuable source for the march of Count Amadeus VI against Bulgaria in 1366-1367 - look into ''Monumenta historiae patriae — scriprores, I, Aug. Taurinorum, 1840, col. 299—318.''

So giving late game Bulgarian gunpowder units its optional.Its your choice guys from MK 1212ad team

[Kjertesvein]

@lion8000 There was a bit confusion, but I think I understand you somewhat. You were referring to the need for the Bulgiarian heavy cavalry (high period) to use mail protection for the leg and foot area, sometimes referred to as mail chausses (old french, stockings). You also wanted Bulgarian knights to look similar to Hungarian knights. If that's the case, tehn I think I understand what you mean.

I was referring to sabatons. Sabatons were basically plate protection over the shoes. Sometimes they covered the tip, the whole shoe or somewhere in between. We see them appear in knightly effigies around the mid 14th century, and a bit earlier in documents and letters.

The important part to recognize is that just because sabatons, mail chausses and other types were introduced throughout the period, doesn't mean the soldiers always used it. It's not like a game where you unlock technology and then everyone uses that technology. It's usually much more complex than that. We see either full plate, mail or even no apparent foot protection all the way into the 15th century. Throughout Europe, even soldiers in full plate harness sometimes elect to wear regular leather shoes. I've heard many theories why they chose to wear less armour, but as far as I can tell, we don't have solid answers as to why they did what they did. We do however observe it in artwork and effigies. Also contextual guesswork from documents of armouries (the share lack of it compared to bacinets, gloves, torso protection, etc.).

Even if we have a few archaeological remains of mail protection for the foot found in Bulgaria doesn't mean their cavalry companies used it. Universally, partially or even at all. Some times we see knights using sabatons universally (knightly effigies in England), sometimes mail, sometimes a combination and other times no apparent foot protection (manuscripts and a trend in German effigies). Some times certain armour is specifically designed for sport (jousting) where maximal protection is favored over logistics. Just because chausses has been found is Bulgaria doesn't mean 1212 AD team has to put it into their units for the simple fact that we don't have a good answer available for everything. In my opinion, with the lack of sufficient proof, it's up to them and their artistic license.

What I did find interesting was the church paintings where armour is depicted, for example here, dated 1376, with a rather fancy iron hat and a curved sword. I personally think it would be much more interesting to promote what is already there, native to the Second Bulgarian Tsardom, rather than ask for all factions to look exactly the same. I personally think, similarly to DarrentTotalWar, that some factions should be unique from others and reflect the historical limitations the factions faced in their armies. For example that Norway and Sweden should have no shock cavalry (except for knightly mercenaries), similar to Denmark in Charlemagne DLC. I just want to reiterate, that it's perfectly ok that other people come to different conclusions and I'll assist with descriptions of tournament gear used by the northern kings if it's ever wanted.

That's my 2 cents.

~Wille

[Slytacular]

Please guys, your non-english language is scaring the Americans away.

Good stuff though! For some people in the future, please refrain from calling each other stupid. One person can tell you 100 things they may not know about history, and you can tell that person 100 things they don't know about history. Forums like these is a great method for chucking in the known and clearing away the unknown.

[lion8000]

Kjertesvein that's exactly what I was trying to say (excuse me for my bad English). But I was also trying to say that the late Boyars (from 1422-1460 ad.) should have Hungarian armor. The high era Boyars should have mostly Italian armor style, but there should be some units with Hungarian armor style (high era).
FrozenmenSS this story is very interesting.
AnthoniusII if you want learn Bulgarian, it is an very beautiful language. ��

[Ltd.]

Some of the bulgarian high era bolyars do have maille leggings , some don't . It is the same case with the hungarian high era knights, so in terms of style and level of armament the bulgarians are on par with the hungarian knights. Late era bulgarian knights will most likely get sabatons on their feet as well, just like the hungarians.
Also , the hungarian nobles themselves were very much influenced by both the german and the italian styles both in the high and in the late era ( the mod' s high and late era , that is ). Brigandine was immensely favored in eastern europe.

[Hrobatos]

Most excelent work!

[Slepeca]

Sorry for the dumb question . But what can the modding tools ,that CA has given us in Attila ,do to help improve the mod ,in terms of names of provinces (not the provinces personal name ,but the the name "province" ),administrative and military positions ,you can change them all ,or you have to stay with the vannilla ones ?Rly sorry for the dumb ,question.

[Slytacular]

I think everything is potentially change-able except for the physical map and the audio. Although those are probably just realms people have to develop the modding tools for.

[Slepeca]

Ok ,then one idea that was on my mind for quiet a time ,was for you(modding team) to name "provinces" -(Земя)(Комитат) (Област) in the SBT,and respectively name the other countries/kingdoms/tsardoms's provinces with their respective counterpart names .(Note-i am not talking about particular/personal names of provinces ,i am talking about the name province/ the administrative unit,like Province Thrace ,Komitat Thrace,Oblast Thrace and so on .)One other idea that i had, is for you (modding team) to name administrative and political positions ,the respective way they were in the respective kingdoms/tsardoms/empires ,for example in england earls , in france counts and in SBT Bolyars,Lesser bolyars ,Bolyar council ,instead of the vannila ones . (If that isn't already added to the mod ,and for consideration .)

[2Shy]

I'm glad to see new roster. The work you have done is just amazing! All units look great!
IMO the heavy spearmen unit is a little bit pointless and I would prefer to see a light(er) cavalry unit to the high era, but still the roster in the way it is now is awesome!

[lion8000]

Ltd. I just noticed that the first version of the Bulgarian Heavy Infantry has better armor than the last one. Why?

[Ltd.]

What do you mean by better armor? better looking or heavier ? They are currently wearing coat of plates and brigandine which is quite the best armor you can get in the 14th century (1350ish )

[lion8000]

Let´s get a taste of the new bulgarian outfits ...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This was the first Bulgarian Heavy Infantry.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Ltd.]

I am not sure I follow: so you are saying that the bolyars (mounted units) have better armour than the infantry ? Well, the bolyars have better leg protection and visored helmets. If that is your question , then the reason is that the cavalry basically are nobles, are richer, need better protection, you name it.

[warman222]

Isn't this like the third debate in a row about the God damn armor on the high era Bulgarian units? Forgive my bitterness but we have literally gone over this multiple times now and it's getting really annoying.

[Teutonic]

Isn't this like the third debate in a row about the God damn armor on the high era Bulgarian units? Forgive my bitterness but we have literally gone over this multiple times now and it's getting really annoying.

You guys are doing terrific work, the units look great!

At some point in the future, like has been said above, a Late Era lighter or middle-of-the-range cavalry could be done for Bulgaria and Serbia who really need it. But at this stage to quibble about armour (again) is pointless.

[finix]

lion8000 calm down, relax and play tomorrow. Do not harass themselves and the rest of it. Thank you for your devotion but units will not change. Guys just ignore it

[Slepeca]

Finix ,can you give us another sneak peek ,at the bulgarian/orthodox city ?

[finix]

Finix ,can you give us another sneak peek ,at the bulgarian/orthodox city ?

This will wait for now. Our first task now is to enjoy the first release

[Empire230]

God dammit, this thread is more polemic than Trump's speeches.