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Thread: Marian preview

  1. #1
    alin's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Marian preview

    Greetings Europa Barbarorum 2 fans, today we are proud to show you the long awaited Marian units.



    Historically the organisation of the Legio began to change at the end of the 2nd century BC and in the early 1st century BC: all but the heavy infantry had disappeared. The cause of it was the inability find enough men, who fulfilled the property requirements, in the many and continuous wars. Thus Caivs Marivs saw the one-off action to enrol the Capite Censi, the citizens without property, as the only solution to obtain at a short notice the reinforcements he needed. Earlier attempts to increase the number of suitable small farmers through land reforms by the Gracchi had been blocked by Senatvs, as many Senatores owned great latifundia now sprawling all over Italy. So all property requirements were given up and volunteers from all social classes were welcomed as well as the conscripts, while the state or their generals paid for their equipment.
    Equites avxiliarii : from concept to in-game unit

    These horsemen are a versatile medium cavalry equipped for both, skirmishing and shock actions. They are are comparably well protected and better prepared to fight the enemy at close quarters. Additionally they now use the four horned saddle, a new and very useful supplementation to cavalry equipment, that enables a firm seat in almost all situations. Drawn from the upper classes of Provincial societies these are well trained and respected warriors that have become an integral part of many armies of the Res Pvblica. Together with other auxiliaries they give our Legiones the much needed effective cavalry support.

    Historically various auxiliary cavalry completely replaced the Italic contingents in the Roman armies of the late Republic and Gaulish and Hispanic horsemen were seen as one of the best in the Roman state. At the time of Caesar they had become the backbone of the army's cavalry arm, fighting with Roman forces at places very far away like Aegyptvs and Mesopotamia. Celtic and Iberian tactics, fighting style and vocabulary remained dominant in the later regular cavalry arm of the Imperial army well into the 2nd century AD, when the major recruitment areas for cavalrymen had shifted to other provinces for many decades.

    Allied and subdued states and tribes always had to supply the Roman army with troops. Almost at all times at least half of the soldiers were non-citizens. During the first centuries of the Republic the old Alae of the Italic socii were organised and equipped in a similar way to the Romani, but around the beginning of the 1st century BC the situation changed. The Ordo Eqvester, since decades unable to provide a sufficient number of cavalry had split off in two main groups. A mainly political elite that filled out the numerous officer and administrative posts of the ever growing Res Pvblica, and a pure economical elite, the large majority of the Roman and Italic equestrians. Thus enfranchised aristocrats, mainly from Hispania and Gallia Cisalpina, were enlisted as auxiliary mounted troops, becoming in no time the mainstay of the late Republican cavalry.

    These riders can ride down skirmishers, protect the flanks of the infantry, but they are always capable of charging at the right opportunity. However they are still a supporting force, it should never be expected to win a battle alone.
    First historical pictures are gathered and research is done by our historians, paullus was the lead historian for the Marian units

    Here are a few pictures of the sources used for this unit :

    Caesarian equites, carrying cavalry scuta (narrower, sometimes hexagonal, and generally flat rather than concave), recruited heavily among Romanizing aristocracy of Gallic and Iberian regions; we see more of the Gallic influenced helmet designs, mainly mail armor (although some variation could survive), and actual equipment may need some revision.


    I'm thinking Option 1 gives us the mainstay cavalry of the Marian era, but there may also be more interest in seeing Option 2 produced. [MENTION=9881]Tux[/MENTION], what's your flavor? Ideally we'll make both in time.

    Equites Auxilium - drawn from Gaulish regions under Roman authority, a mixture of Romanizing aristocratic Gauls, Spaniards, and even Germans (theoretically).


    helmets:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    A.
    B.
    C. Mannheim Coolus

    D. Schaan Coolus


    E.


    Several should have horsetail plumes, the kind with a little tuft that faces forward, but a long plume hanging down the back. A few can have a couple of feathers in little bronze tubes above the ears, and we might include one set of cornicula, little bouquetin horns. Several of the helmets can be plain, too. I'd really like to include all 5. And I think by the time you get to this unit, all will have been modeled on a Roman or Celtic unit, except the Schaan Coolus.


    body armor:
    the cavalry at glanum have double-rows of pteryges, but their chest armor is hard to identify, a couple are probably muscled but a couple are probably mail or linen/leather; if we can figure it out, we may feature it on at least some bodies, but others should have mail armor; the arausio/orange arch is almost entirely mail armor, with one muscled, one scale, and one probable linothorax among about a dozen mailed cavalry
    -2x mail (and maybe even double at least one of them when compiling the model into in-game units; I'd like for mail to be over half the riders) over subarmalis, but I'd only like to see the subarmalis on one of the two, with two short strips of pteryges below the hem of the mail armor, and perhaps some strips visible at the shoulder as well. For that one, with the visible subarmalis, I'd like the shoulder yoke to be the traditional Mediterranean style, and hardened leather. For the other mail, no visible subarmalis, and I'd recommend using the rounded/broader shoulder pieces, like the type nazgool has used on 1-2 of the Polybian units.
    -1x hardened leather, with long pteryges in a double-layer (see Glanum monument), similar to leather armors on late Celtic units or to a Hellenic linothorax
    -1x faintly muscled, boiled leather cuirass, in the nearly flat-bottomed edge cavalry style, with short, double-row of pteryges, and no shoulder yoke (I'm considering whether I really want this, or whether we should instead do a short scale cuirass to the belt with pteryges below; one or the other). If we did a muscled type, I'd want to model it on the popular light-duty officer and centurion cuirasses, e.g.:
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...us_Caelius.JPG
    Note that the Caelius monument shows the minimal lower contour to facilitate comfort in the saddle, slight coverage of the shoulders/upper arms, proving it is leather, and no shoulder yoke. It is Augustan, but in this context should be okay.


    shields:
    flat thureoi-like shields, with hemispherical bosses
    2x oval
    2x hexagonal (but not the customary narrow shield we see in lots of artwork, more like the cropped top-and-bottom shields we see on the Pompullius monument below)
    I'd like to copy a lot of Gallic shield motifs that already exist, but change color schemes for a red-hued Romani look

    weapons:
    a mixture of gladius hispaniensis and La Tene D swords, and two framea-style throwing spears about 2m in length; other Marian cavalry, drawn from Italians, will retain the xyston+sword style.


    Some images:
    Pompullius monument:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    Glanum monument:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    [/SPOIL]


    Arausio monument:
    [SPOIL]






    Then the unit is created by our artists, the Marian roster was done by Tux/alin with the help of Gustave for the shields.

    Here are a few pics of the development of the unit :




    The unit is then ready to enter the game :



    Antesignani

    Antesignani are elite legionaries trained to fight outside the heavy infantry’s battle formation. Armed with spears, used both for thrusting and throwing, and a gladius they are more lightly armoured with a simple Thoromacus, a new Coolus bronze helmet, and carry smaller oval shields instead of the heavy scuta to increase their agility. On march, the duties of the Antesignani are to cover the columns as well as to scout and secure the area in front of the army. In a battle they can be used to screen the legions advance, to counter enemy skirmishers, or to support the cavalry if no specialised auxiliaries are available.

    Historically after the social war the former Socii received Roman citizenship and were now recruited into the Legiones. However the disappearance of the Velites and Pedites Extraordinarii reduced the Legio's abilities and made it dependent upon external light infantry support. In the 1st century BC it became common to train some elite legionaries as Antesignani to fill this gap. Caesar employed them to reinforce the cavalry or launch sudden assaults to gain the upper ground.

    Short:

    These men are elite legionaries capable of supporting heavier infantry and cavalry units.




    Cohors


    Roman legionaries are now uniformly equipped with two pila, a gladius, and an elliptical scutum around 1.28 m high. Their main armour still remains a coat of Lorica Hamata and Montefortino or Coolus helmets. The high quality of the Legiones equipment has become one of the great strengths of the Roman infantry, besides their strict discipline.

    Historically the organisation of the Legio began to change at the end of the 2nd century BC and in the early 1st century BC: all but the heavy infantry had disappeared. The cause of it was the inability find enough men, who fulfilled the property requirements, in the many and continuous wars. Thus Caivs Marivs saw the one-off action to enrol the Capite Censi, the citizens without property, as the only solution to obtain at a short notice the reinforcements he needed. Earlier attempts to increase the number of suitable small farmers through land reforms by the Gracchi had been blocked by Senatvs, as many Senatores owned great latifundia now sprawling all over Italy. So all property requirements were given up and volunteers from all social classes were welcomed as well as the conscripts, while the state or their generals paid for their equipment.

    The Hastati, Principes and Triarii were now all equipped in the same manner and only their names remained. Three of their maniples, each increased in size to 160 men, now formed one Cohors, the new main tactical unit of the Roman infantry, besides the now 80 men strong Centvria. However in most times the late Republican Legiones did not reach their theoretical strength and around 400 men per Cohors was far more common. These changes offered much more tactical flexibility to the Legio. Instead of being limited to a three line battle formation, the soldiers could be positioned as easily in one, two, or even more lines. A Cohors was big enough to operate separated from the main army and to perform smaller tasks independently.

    The Senatvs had refused to bear the incalculable able costs for the veterans so that the generals had to take care of them. In fact Caivs Marivs' activities did not lead to any overhaul of the military service, whose terms remained unaltered. However the stress of the several civil wars of the 1st century BC, resulted in regular monetary compensation and land grants, causing the loyalty of the legionaries to shift more and more towards charismatic leaders that they were now depending on.

    These legionaries are now uniformly equipped and trained to an equal high standard, making them the most versatile heavy infantry in the world.



    Cohors Evocata

    Former legionaries that have reenlisted, now form a veteran corps within the army. They no longer have to take care of many routine duties, receive an increased pay and their weapons and armour are of higher quality. These men are some of the most reliable troops in a Roman army, invaluable in lending their experience to raw recruits and commanders alike. Although their numbers are not large, their presence in the Legio is very prestigious, for these men are allowed to carry the Vitis, a vinewood rod to direct drills and maneuvers, but they are also in direct personal contact with the Imperator of the army.

    Historically after the full required term of 6 years, veterans could reenlist at the behest of their commanders, or voluntarily, and be known as Evocati, meaning those called up. Some became Centuriones, officers and took up administrative roles in the Legio, but most of them remained in the ranks and were organised in separate Cohortes. This practice is already attested in the late 3rd century BC, however it was in the 1st century BC that they were heavily drawn upon, determining the outcome of many engagements.

    These veterans are the best Roman troops available, who have proven themselves in countless battles and several campaigns.




    Cohors Prima

    The legionaries of this Cohors are the best men of the Legio, known as the Primi Ordines. They enjoy immense prestige, especially the Primvs Pilvs, who is regarded as the top soldier. Such status is unquestioned, because every year new appointments are made and all the legionaries bear witness to the skills and bravery of the Primi Ordines.

    Historically the Cohors Prima consisted of the three Manipvli, standing at the extreme right flank. All the men in the Legio strove for promotion and honour, the Centvriones more than anybody else. Initiative and courage were incentivised, Caesar for example included the Centvriones in his war councils, thus through continuous active campaigning dubious elements were removed, leaving the absolute best fighting men in charge of the Legio.

    The Cohors Prima is the keeper of the Aqvila, the Legio's standard, the primary symbol of Roman power and an inspiration for all Roman soldiers nearby.



    Onager


    Relatively easy to make and accurate, this siege engine is one of the most successful designs ever created, for it is not as complex as Hellenic types. Missing any bow-string to arrest the movement, this machine requires a padded buffer to stop the arm. The resulting kick and adjusting dispersal of force gave rise to its name: the wild donkey. However with proper forward-sloping of the buffer a projectile could be launched in a flat and direct trajectory.

    Historically the Romani far from declining in matters of technique and technology, put to good use Hellenic knowledge and Roman pragmatism, obtaining an efficient and easily operated siege engine. Not requiring fine-tuning and balancing the Onager could possibly have offered a faster rate of fire and it spread use in time, might be a testament to its simple applicability. Made out of two oak beams, straight except for the hump in the middle. They had large holes in the middle of each beam, through which strong ropes made from cattle sinews were stretched and twisted. A long arm was then inserted between the bundles of rope, at the end of this arm stood a pouch for holding the projectile and a pin. Soon as this was released with a hammer, the arm rotated until it struck the crossarm, buffered with a sack stuffed with fine chaff and secured by tight binding.

    These siege engines are the result of genuine improvements in construction and efficiency, they might not be as accurate as other machines, but they truly get the job done.


    Officers

    The cohors units will feature 3 officers: Centurion, Vexillarius, Aquilifer/Signifier. The later will be used either by the Cohors Prima or other Cohors units.

    Centurion helmets:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    Signa:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 










    Aquila:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 














    Vexilum:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Vexilum Cohors prima:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 







    Winter Dress

    A feature which is a bit unknown of M2TW are winter textures, during the winter season the Marian units will use the winter set textures.
    Thus the legionaries will wear braccae for their winter campaigns in the harsh climate of Northern Europe.




    Various screenshots :









    Last edited by alin; December 21, 2015 at 05:45 AM.

  2. #2
    alin's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Marian preview

    Reform video:

    Link:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioqSlJbgnK0

    Shots from the modeling and texturing process:





































    Last edited by alin; December 21, 2015 at 05:54 AM.

  3. #3
    bobbyr's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Marian preview

    Great preview, love the fact that you guys are including the Marian Reforms in the next large update

    One question on the shields though, I always thought that legionaries from the Marian Reforms onwards used the same shield color and design within a legion, due to the fact that those were mass produced by the state and maybe also for uniformity and identification.

    I like your portrait of the cohors reformata I just have never seen a mod, documentation or illustration in a book that portraits them with diverse shield colors and paintings. Hence my question. Shame on me and please don't take this as any form of criticism, but I can't help but think of Polybian Principes when I see them




  4. #4

    Default Re: Marian preview

    the cavalry at glanum have double-rows of pteryges, but their chest armor is hard to identify, a couple are probably muscled but a couple are probably mail or linen/leather; if we can figure it out, we may feature it on at least some bodies, but others should have mail armor; the arausio/orange arch is almost entirely mail armor, with one muscled, one scale, and one probable linothorax among about a dozen mailed cavalry
    1x hardened leather, with long pteryges in a double-layer (see Glanum monument), similar to leather armors on late Celtic units or to a Hellenic linothorax
    -1x faintly muscled, boiled leather cuirass, in the nearly flat-bottomed edge cavalry style, with short, double-row of pteryges, and no shoulder yoke (
    nice preview and thank you for staying true to the historical evidence.

    also,i see there are different numbered vexilla,this mean we will have numbered legions?
    Last edited by excubitor; December 21, 2015 at 04:29 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Marian preview

    Excellent work, looking forward to using these. The antesignani seem quite well concepted!

  6. #6
    alin's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Marian preview

    Quote Originally Posted by excubitor View Post
    nice preview and thank you for staying true to the historical evidence.

    also,i see there are different numbered vexilla,this mean we will have numbered legions?
    No numbered legions, just to have different standards.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Marian preview

    maybe for the imperial legions then!

  8. #8
    icenii's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Marian preview

    Oh my sweet Lord did Christmas just come early, excellent work from a truly talented modding team, now alin please tell me you have or will post some video's on YT as a subscriber I haven't received any notifications.
    I cannot force you to believe the truth but i can allow you to believe a lie. Quote by me " Icenii " In the game of Life Death always wins. Patience is a Virtue that takes time to acquire. The Answer is "7". No 1 wins all the time except God and he cheats.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Marian preview

    This really looks awesome! I am curious though: Is it historically accurate for marian legionaries to have different helmet types within one cohort? I thought they were centrally equipped by their commander by then and would have uniform equipment.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Marian preview

    I dont think there was any point in roman history at which point equipment was exactly the same.
    The clone army thing is a myth.

  11. #11
    alin's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Marian preview

    Quote Originally Posted by icenii View Post
    Oh my sweet Lord did Christmas just come early, excellent work from a truly talented modding team, now alin please tell me you have or will post some video's on YT as a subscriber I haven't received any notifications.
    You can check the second post with some in-game action.

    Quote Originally Posted by romanius24 View Post
    I dont think there was any point in roman history at which point equipment was exactly the same.
    The clone army thing is a myth.
    It is, mainly a Hollywood thing, they didn't have factories to produce the exact same armor and shields in huge quantities.
    Some shields may have suffered some tear and were probably repainted and so on.

    However I've asked our lead historian to answer those questions regarding the diversity in the units.

  12. #12
    icenii's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Marian preview

    Quote Originally Posted by alin View Post
    You can check the second post with some in-game action.



    It is, mainly a Hollywood thing, they didn't have factories to produce the exact same armor and shields in huge quantities.
    Some shields may have suffered some tear and were probably repainted and so on.

    However I've asked our lead historian to answer those questions regarding the diversity in the units.
    Thanks alin already seen that one was just being greedy I guess and wanted more more more of the good stuff.
    I cannot force you to believe the truth but i can allow you to believe a lie. Quote by me " Icenii " In the game of Life Death always wins. Patience is a Virtue that takes time to acquire. The Answer is "7". No 1 wins all the time except God and he cheats.

  13. #13
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Marian preview

    ROMA VICTRIX!

    This new release is already looking so damn good.

  14. #14
    Stath's's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Marian preview

    Mind-blowing!! Thank you so much!!


  15. #15
    General Maximus's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Marian preview

    This is amazing! Will the EB2 units be complete after Marian units have been implemented, or are there plans for more to be added (like imperial Roman units)?
    सार्वभौम सम्राट चत्रवर्ती - भारतवर्ष
    स्वर्गपुत्र पीतसम्राट - चीन
    महाराजानाभ्याम महाराजा - पारसिक

  16. #16

    Default Re: Marian preview

    EB2 is just about half done when it comes to units. They said there are many more planned but they need more manpower and time.

  17. #17
    demagogos nicator's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Marian preview

    Great preview, I am really curious what is the option 2 of marian cavalry mentioned in the post. Will it be the unit drawn from Italians which will retain the xyston+sword style mentionet also in the preview text? Will there be also some other romanized marian cavalry units (Thracian, Numidian, etc..)? What about the roman generals bodyguards, will their get different model or at least some armour upgrades after each reforms?

  18. #18
    Genava's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Marian preview

    It's funny because you put the Alesia type helmet in the preview but in your model it's the Port/Nidau type helmet. Anyway it's a view I doesn't support, It's an auxiliary helmet not a legionnary one (I am refered on the thesis of L. Pernet).
    Last edited by Genava; December 21, 2015 at 05:19 PM.
    LOTR mod for Shogun 2 Total War (Campaign and Battles!)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIywmAgUxQU

  19. #19

    Default Re: Marian preview

    Genava, it seems you didn't read the concept carefully, that unit is an auxiliary cavalry unit drawn from Gallic aristocracies.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Marian preview

    Quote Originally Posted by alin View Post
    You can check the second post with some in-game action.



    It is, mainly a Hollywood thing, they didn't have factories to produce the exact same armor and shields in huge quantities.
    Some shields may have suffered some tear and were probably repainted and so on.

    However I've asked our lead historian to answer those questions regarding the diversity in the units.
    Thanks for the clarification.
    I would be more than glad to hear from your lead historian.

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