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Thread: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

  1. #321
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    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by VictorAYorke View Post
    every Zora game i played, from the launch of 4.0 (maybe earlier) to 4.5, i could not use Farkos's cavalry bodyguard without getting him killed. No matter the target, no matter the losses already inflicted or the weapon/class matchups, the moment those octoroks touch an enemy squad i get the message that King Zora fell in battle...
    Yeah non-boss heroes need a buff too, theyre no stronger than the base unit currently.
    As for bosses, theyd undoubtedly overpowered for now but as bloodly and victorayorke stated, its much preferable to them dying to trash archers.
    Balres Resdak, Balres Nofok.

  2. #322

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Of course, most heroes/generals are higher-end units to begin with. And a few are weird. Example: King Zarosef's(River Zora) Geozards have a Command Aura, where the base unit doesn't.

    They're just not all weird.

    Some are even so critical that I fear for results without them. Example; Senturon's 'A Good Day to Live' restores stamina at the cost of morale. The Darknuts are in desperate need of stamina at all times.
    Last edited by Bloodly; July 03, 2017 at 08:37 PM.

  3. #323

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    I definitely agree that the giant heroes should not die to light arrow fire or cheap melee. They need to be strong and worthy of fighting in the battle line. there was something I forgot to mention in my tests that further playing has confirmed. AI ranged units rarely will target giant heroes. This is not in a situation where they have multiple targets. I have deployed these hero units, alone, into field and siege battles and the enemy will not shoot them. The best example I have is with Goron bomb throwers with a Sheikah campaign I had started, but abandoned. I had allied with the Huskus and they had merged into my faction, giving me their giant heroes. Since this was before I applied a patch to counter the sheer income of those heroes, they were crashing my economy and I wanted them dead. As such, I went to war with the Gorons just to deal with the problem. I marched the Mantis giants right up to their bomb throwers and waited, and waited, and waited. Not a bomb was thrown, despite the closeness of the target.

    A slight counter example is that, in a Labrynna campaign I have played and now decided that my victory is inevitable, more on that later in the post, the Great Maku Tree had briefly come under some javelin attack while attacking Tokay rebels. This was, however, 3/4 of the way through the battle and was quickly quelled from my own response.

    My worry is that the AI doesn't know how to deal with these units whatsoever. We all can agree that the battle AI is rather derpy, but this is a new level as it won't even try ranged attacks and melee is only if you pretty much walk into them. Why this is happening, I have no idea beyond that maybe the stats are so high that the AI sees no point in attacking it. I haven't tested this against many ranged units yet so I don't know how accurate my worry is.

    Furthermore, I agree that the "regular" sized heroes need a buff. Right now, all they have going for them above other generals are their special abilities. These can be very powerful or just plain misfire (I'm looking at your fire barrel Gorons...) and even then these don't really add up to being a great hero group. And even if it did, not all the heroes have special abilities in the first place. For example, Veran of the Labrynna Regime has no special ability and is mainly an interesting looking general with some fancy traits. I'm not even sure she has more hitpoints then the average general.

    Now, onto my Labrynna campaign and why I feel I've already won despite that I only have 16 territories, no allies, and I'm probably only a 1/5 of the way through it. What I have that convinces me of my victory is money. I have 150,000 rupees sitting around and unable to be spent because I simply cannot spend it fast enough. In all my territories, I am building and recruiting and working up for long term wars, and I'm still making 20,000 a turn. This is because of one single set of resources: fire slug crystal. With a merchant trading one single crystal, I make anywhere from 3,000 to 5,000 rupees with levels 3-5 merchants. I imagine that if I had higher level merchants, I could make upwards of 10,000 a turn off a single crystal. I'm not even putting a soldier and filling it with merchants on the resource to stack up income, this is one merchant to each resource. You can find it, and other incredibly valuable goods in the Subrosia regions. If you secure it, and keep away the other merchants, you are set for the game. I have enough income alone to bribe a full stack of an enemy, and not even lose money for the turn. This makes the game ridiculously easy as, so long as you maintain a couple stacks yourself which I have at least three full stacks I can call upon, you can conquer Hyrule with money alone. As such, I'd say cut down on their value. Make them worth hundreds, not thousands.

    A counter argument can be made for me to simply not use the resource, but I'm here to use the game to its full intention. Which means that if there is great merchant trade, heck yes I will take it. It gives any faction who controls it an incredible lead, of which many do not need anyway. I won't stack the merchants up as I feel that it's not intended to be played that way, but anyone could and make even more money. If you would like pictures, I'll upload them.

  4. #324

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    You're inspiring me to try a Subrosia Game. I'd have to check whether they can recruit merchants. Of course, they'd still suffer to Labrynna's gun-play. Of course, everything does.

    Or maybe Fairies or the Horon.

    I've been looking through the files, though. Very few things have free upkeep(Which has always been true, but it seems now there's less now than before), and now a lot of things have the tag 'is_peasant'. Now as I recall that makes them count half for keeping unrest down.

    Except no unit actually shows you this trait in game. Given this, it's possible they expect upkeep costs to shoot right the hell up since you need twice the units since you're guessing on what actually works unless you file-dive. This seems poor at BEST. There's also been talk of bringing costs right up also. Which is concerning given many factions struggle while some factions can pull a Scrooge McDuck and swim in their money.

  5. #325

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Nah if anything costs will go down, the HD remakes are almost done so it will be easier to get a good sense of each faction so balancing can begin properly, the is_peasant trait basically does the opposite it stops the unit generating law and order when they are in a city.
    Also very annoyingly there are a plethera of unit attributes that dont show up, so they will be written in the unit description at some point when its all finalised, the same for the hidden building bonuses like education and the like
    Sign the petition to remove the hardcoded limits from M2TW
    https://www.change.org/p/creative-as...t_created=true

  6. #326

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade13666 View Post
    Why this is happening, I have no idea beyond that maybe the stats are so high that the AI sees no point in attacking it.
    This is likely the reason. The MTW2 battle AI is smart in the sense that it will always try to go for the squishies. Of Course it is quite jarring that it wont attack (extremely) high defense Targets even with no other Options available.



    Concering unit costs, I agree that they are way to low across the board. It doesent really matter if you pay 90 or 130 rupees a turn for a unit. This way there is no monetary incentive to build anything else then top-Tier Units.

    In other words: the ecconomic model does not follow the pricing model.

    But I know that getting this right is very hard to achieve.

  7. #327

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by tedster1995 View Post
    the HD remakes are almost done so it will be easier to get a good sense of each faction so balancing can begin properly,
    Yes. this is some thing We have been looking forward to for some time. Since there are a lot of things related to the unit model and animation. That will determine how well a unit does something in a fight/battle. It's far more complex then just the EDU File.
    Quote Originally Posted by tedster1995 View Post
    Also very annoyingly there are a plethera of unit attributes that dont show up, so they will be written in the unit description at some point when its all finalised, the same for the hidden building bonuses like education and the like
    This will be great. I also hope that it will mention all the unit attributes. not just the ones that are hidden.
    Beside that. maybe We can give a spot in the unit descriptions that stat their unit speed while walking/running. As well as their Range of their ranged attack.
    The reason I ask is. Some of my family have complained about not knowing the capabilities of units so you can't make a good judgement on what is good against what. They state that a good game needs to have a way to let the player(new or old) Know This.
    For example. My brother lost a hole army of wissrobes to archers who had more range them him. And he had no idea they had more range. :/ And just walked up to get in range when suddenly he lost like half his army. So you guys can see why certain things would be nice to know.

  8. #328

    Default Re: Nephy's Balance (Gasp!!!) Thread

    Although it is technically possible to get the Minish Guild right now, it is unlikely at best.

    Have a look in export_desc_guilds. The point check for the Minish asks for a total score of 190. The point values are also fairly low; the point values are from 2-10, with the higher scores for higher items, as you might expect.

    Compare to the Keatons. They're structured as a regular Med2 Guild-specifically, the Merchant's Guild. Their first point check is at 100. Although they don't check for buildings, and the point gain for income is small, they get 10 points for various units, and 10 for merchants, spies, and Trade Rights agreements. 15 if you can hire a Keaton before they actually offer the guild. It's a lot easier to get at, and would be even if both were set to 190 for fairness's sake.

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