about marian reforms

[excubitor]

so with the inclusion of marian units in the 2.1 version of the mod,what would be the requirements to recruit them?
in eb1 it was something like
-fight 450 battles(or win 450 dont remember)
-build 4 latifundia in italy
-build 45 type II goverments
-have a character with this traits Sharp/Charismatic/Vigorous,Popularis,Consul or Ex-Consul,Has Influence > 2,Has Command > 2 and if i remember correctly he took a trait called reformer if he had all the other traits.
-the year must be at least 172 bc.

or capture 90 setlements

will the reforms in eb2 resemble the above or the mod creators use a different aproach.

[bordinis]

There is NO Marian reform units in the upcoming large patch. So now you can say to developers: dude, where is my romans? ;D

[Roma_Victrix]

Sweet! I'll make a mental note to focus on building farms when I get around to playing as the Romans.

There is NO Marian reform units in the upcoming large patch. So now you can say to developers: dude, where is my romans? ;D

I can see that you're a little slow to catch up with the progress of what's already been done:

[romanius24]

What are you talking about? The marian units will be introduced in the Autumn release.

QS did say it will involve building farms in Italy. Hopefully they will still use at least 2 triggers, a simpler one and something more complex that lets you trigger the reforms faster.

[QuintusSertorius]

Here's the script:

monitor_event PreFactionTurnStart FactionType f_rome
        and	I_TurnNumber > 500								;;; 147 BC - earliest possible date
			set_counter marian_possible 0					;;; reset counter every turn
        
		if I_EventCounter ecMarianEra = 1					;;; terminate monitor once no longer needed 
            terminate_monitor
        end_if
		
		if I_TurnNumber > 660								;;; If there is 107 BC when Marian reforms happened IRL...
		and I_EventCounter ecPolybian = 1 					;;; ...and reforms had not happened already...
            set_event_counter ecPolybianEra 0				;;; ...trigger the reforms as fall-back for AI and unlucky player.
            set_event_counter ecMarianEra 1
            historic_event HE_MARIAN_REFORM factions { f_rome, }
			terminate_monitor
        end_if
    end_monitor
	
	monitor_event SettlementTurnStart FactionType f_rome
        and	I_TurnNumber > 500								;;; 147 BC - earliest possible date
        and IsRegionOneOf 99 97 112 125 134 131 141 		;;; Etruria, Umbria, Latium, Apulia, Campania, Kalabria, Brettia - count only those in Italy
        and	SettlementBuildingExists > farms_six 			;;; count Latifundiae and land reforms as sources of social tension and dispossession leading to reform
			if I_EventCounter ecPolybianEra = 1
				inc_counter marian_possible 1
			end_if

			if I_CompareCounter marian_possible > 5		
				set_event_counter ecMarianPossible 1		;;; Once the social/agricultural development reaches the threshold switch-on EDCT condition...
				terminate_monitor							;;; ... and terminate monitor 
			end_if
    end_monitor
	
	monitor_event CharacterTurnStart FactionType f_rome
        and Trait Reformator > 1							;;; First level enabled by ecMarianPossible, second one by being a consul.
			set_event_counter ecPolybianEra 0
			set_event_counter ecMarianEra 1
			historic_event HE_MARIAN_REFORM   ; might as well let the world know about the reform
			terminate_monitor
    end_monitor

The earlier trigger is based on farming development in Italy and an FM with suitable traits (but after 147BC). The automatic trigger is in 107BC.

[excubitor]

so basically you can just stay in italy and wait until 107 to get them?

what about having as a requirement to conquer and build varius forms of goverments as in eb1?

[QuintusSertorius]

so basically you can just stay in italy and wait until 107 to get them?

what about having as a requirement to conquer and build varius forms of goverments as in eb1?

What about them? They're completely irrelevant to the real reasons behind the reforms. Which were rooted in changes in land ownership and the subsequent impact on qualification for the (Polybian-style) legions.

[myarta]

so basically you can just stay in italy and wait until 107 to get them?

what about having as a requirement to conquer and build varius forms of goverments as in eb1?

You could wait for 660 turns, yes. I have no idea what you will do for 400+ of those if you refuse to build the farming building prereqs. I guess you could just mash end-turn while avoiding certain building chains despite having nothing else to build. That doesn't sound like an exploit to me. It's just if you've been extremely unlucky with your Consul getting the right traits.

[Wulfburk]

The date requirement is more so the Roman AI also gets the reform.

[torzsoktamas]

And how will the Polybian reform be triggered?Only after 200 turns,or is there a chance for a faster one,with some requiraments?

[myarta]

And how will the Polybian reform be triggered?Only after 200 turns,or is there a chance for a faster one,with some requiraments?

You can trigger the reform several ways:

1. After turn 100, if you have won 4 or more large battles in Cisalpine Gaul AND 5 or more large battles against Carthage. A large battle is one in which the enemy has at least 11 units shown on their army stack. Cisalpine Gaul means the area around Felsina, Segesta, Medilanon, Patavium, but also Massalia, Segestica, and Dalminion. I'm not sure that besieging a settlement and having them sally out from starvation counts. I was never able to trigger this reform via this method, usually I think due to the Cisalpine battles. I could find plenty of Carthaginian stacks to fight.

2. After turn 120, if you have conquered the territory of Sicily (all 3 settlements) plus 3 settlements in Cisalpania (specifically Segesta, Patava, and Felsina. Medilanon is irrelevant), then it can be assumed that you had the battles against Gauls and Carthaginians that were the historical impetus for this reform, even if the battle counting trigger in #1 for some reason didn't register it (like one of your battles, the enemy only had 10 units not more than 10, and now you own Cisalpinia so no one is bringing more stacks in there for you to fight. That's what my problem was).

3. After turn 248, regardless of what happens. In theory you could never take a city and just turtle in Roma, Arretium, Ariminum, Capua, and Arpi, but why would you do that for 248 turns? 248 is a decent chunk of time to mash end-turn for, so presumably by now your empire is in decent shape, even if you prefer to take things slow. Option #2 is brand new in the latest releases, and is a welcome change for those of us who were stuck slogging it out waiting for turn 248, despite having already conquered all of Sicily, Cisalpinia, Illyria, etc.

[torzsoktamas]

You can trigger the reform several ways:

1. After turn 100, if you have won 4 or more large battles in Cisalpine Gaul AND 5 or more large battles against Carthage. A large battle is one in which the enemy has at least 11 units shown on their army stack. Cisalpine Gaul means the area around Felsina, Segesta, Medilanon, Patavium, but also Massalia, Segestica, and Dalminion. I'm not sure that besieging a settlement and having them sally out from starvation counts. I was never able to trigger this reform via this method, usually I think due to the Cisalpine battles. I could find plenty of Carthaginian stacks to fight.

2. After turn 120, if you have conquered the territory of Sicily (all 3 settlements) plus 3 settlements in Cisalpania (specifically Segesta, Patava, and Felsina. Medilanon is irrelevant), then it can be assumed that you had the battles against Gauls and Carthaginians that were the historical impetus for this reform, even if the battle counting trigger in #1 for some reason didn't register it (like one of your battles, the enemy only had 10 units not more than 10, and now you own Cisalpinia so no one is bringing more stacks in there for you to fight. That's what my problem was).

3. After turn 248, regardless of what happens. In theory you could never take a city and just turtle in Roma, Arretium, Ariminum, Capua, and Arpi, but why would you do that for 248 turns? 248 is a decent chunk of time to mash end-turn for, so presumably by now your empire is in decent shape, even if you prefer to take things slow. Option #2 is brand new in the latest releases, and is a welcome change for those of us who were stuck slogging it out waiting for turn 248, despite having already conquered all of Sicily, Cisalpinia, Illyria, etc.

Thanks for the detailed awnser!
The second option seems very good for both historical and practical purposes

[Shatov]

Does anyone have any tips on how to get characters up the Cursis? I'm still a ways out but want a good Popular is ready.

[myarta]

Does anyone have any tips on how to get characters up the Cursis? I'm still a ways out but want a good Popular is ready.

The new 2.3 guide has an excellent overview of the Cursus Honorum. https://mega.nz/#!Z3pl3CiQ!GgOk-A_9c...cPDLw2T_hQMvrg

If you mean how to get Popularis, you'll have plenty of generals who are, based on their gens and other factors. Otherwise if you want to influence a specific general, have him be the governor when building land reforms and you have a chance of making him Popularis.

[romanius24]

Polybian is already in. Easiest way is to conquer some regions. Sicily and 3 in north italy i think.

[excubitor]

What about them? They're completely irrelevant to the real reasons behind the reforms. Which were rooted in changes in land ownership and the subsequent impact on qualification for the (Polybian-style) legions.

wasnt the fact that campaigns now lasted much longer,the new provinces also needing permanent garrisons that ruined economically many legionaires who were farmers?their farms were then bought by rich land owners leading to the latifundia.