Household Budget Template

[Poach]

House Details

House Name:

House Seat:

Income Details

Land Income: (Include any modifiers from Wealth trait or Trade Goods)

Trade Income: (Assume 20,000 Dragons so you don't have to revisit this every week, simply select 2 trade goods and assume that's what you're trading for)

Vassal Tax Income: (If any, max 10%. Remember that for each 2.5%, -2 to vassal call to arms rolls applies)

Total Yearly Income: (The sum of all above)

Expenditure Details

Military Edicts

Militias. 15,000 Dragons. +1,500 land levy points. Military Infrastructure. 15,000 Dragons. +1,500 land levy points. Sellsword Contracting Laws. 10,000 Dragons. When you summon your levy, conduct a d20*100 roll for sellswords who join the campaign. Sellsword troop type will be split 10/20/20/30/20 H Cav/H Inf/L Cav/Polearm/Archers. (eg roll a 1 and get 100 troops, 10 are H Cav, 20 H Inf, so on...) Press Gangs. 15,000 Dragons. +2,000 naval levy points. Naval Infrastructure. 15,000 Dragons. +2,000 naval levy points. Castle Quartmaster. 5,000 Dragons. +6 ingame months to siege survival time. Barrack Blocks. 5,000 Dragons. +100% Castle Garrison limit. Castle Defences. 5,000 Dragons. +2 to Siege Defence Rolls. Bastions. 5,000 Dragons. +2 to Siege Defence Rolls (must stack with Castle Defences) Holdfast. 5,000 Dragons. If your castle surrenders or is successfully stormed the remaining forces retreat to a Holdfast and the siege resumes. The Holdfast has +2 to Siege Defence Rolls (does not gain bonus from Castle Defences or Bastions) and will hold out for a further one year. (must stack with Castle Defences and Bastions) Town Watch. 5,000 Dragons. 500 Light Infantry and 250 Archers defend your home province if invaded or besieged, they will not leave your province once spawned. Not included towards castle garrison limit. +5 to capture rolls (-5 to escape rolls therefore) conducted by you in your province. Keep Garrison. 5,000 Dragons. 300 Heavy Infantry defend your home province if invaded or besieged, they will not leave your province once spawned. Not included towards castle garrison limit. -3 to assassination and spy rolls done against you in your home province. Postern Gate. 5,000 Dragons. If your castle is besieged, any characters inside may attempt to escape with a 10/20 chance.

Military Edicts Chosen:

Total Military Edict Cost:

Political and Mercantile Edicts

Vassal Autonomy. 5,000 Dragons per vassal. +500 levy points per vassal when you call your Banners (cannot have if centralised power is taken) (Unavailable to Lords Paramount) Centralised Power. +5,000 Dragons to your income per vassal. Vassals only send 50% of their levy instead of 100% (cannot have if vassal autonomy is taken) (Unavailable to Lords Paramount) Note: If you take Centralised Power and have a player as a minor Lord sworn to you, the player must pay you the 5,000 Dragons. Free Trade. 15,000 Dragons. +1 trade lane. (Trade lanes generate 10,000 Dragons in income, thus you're in effect paying 5,000 Dragons for an extra trade good bonus) Merchant Taxation. +20,000 Dragons income, -1 trade lane. (Effectively gaining 10,000 Dragons to give up one trade good bonus)

Political/Mercantile Edicts Chosen:

Total Political/Mercantile Edicts Cost:

Personal Edicts

Armoursmiths. 10,000 per character. +10 hp in duels. Weaponsmiths. 5,000 per character. +2 duels. A character may not have a Valyrian Steel weapon and this edict. Master Swordsmith. 15,000 per character. +5 to duels. Cannot be stacked with Weaponsmiths. A character may not have a Valyrian Steel weapon and this edict. Retainers. 5,000 Dragons per Retainer. Each House may employ up to 5 such men. The House may distribute the retainers among family members as they see fit, but cannot exceed 5 in total. Retainers Seasoned Sellsword: A man who has seen many battles, both on the front line and as a leader of men. Such a man is invaluable during times of war, as he understands the realities of battle and the art of commanding men to fight to the death. +1 Land Battles and Rearguard. Seasoned Captain: A man who has seen many battles, both on the front line and as a leader of men. Such a man is invaluable during times of war, as he understands the realities of battle and the art of commanding men to fight to the death. +1 Sea Battles. Redeemed Bandit: A man who made his living preying upon the innocent for personal gain and plunder. Eventually captured, but pardoned by an unreasonably forgiving minor Lordling. Unwilling to tempt fate twice, this former-bandit now finds employment in his old trade semi-legally by doing it on behalf of a Lord rather than in opposition to one. +1 Pillager. Smuggler: A man with the ability to covertly move goods from A to B is very valuable if you're under siege. 50% chance that a castle can hold out for 24 hours longer, 25% chance he fails, 25% chance he is killed in the attempt. If killed you may not attempt another roll for 2 years, representing the time it takes to hire another suitable smuggler. Ranger: A man attuned to nature, trained and keenly skilled as a huntsman, stalker and survivalist, a Ranger is capable of tracking your enemy with great skill and deploying his understanding of tracking to help cover your own tracks. +1 Scout and Pathfinder. Wagonmaster: Lords often laugh at someone who tells them wars are won by the side with the best logistics, but not all. Experienced, professional wagonmasters make an army move like clockwork, with supplies always ready to move and camps going up and down in record time. +1 Logistician. Dark Bodyguard: Being seen with plenty Knights about you makes you look secure, but you aren't really. Assassins can see those Knights too and know how to avoid them. Someone not in armour, but still making it their business to protect you from the shadows, might see people the Knights don't. +1 Survival. Veteran Swordsman: What better way to stay at the top of your game than to have someone paid to spar with you? A veteran swordsman is a man whose lifetime has been spent with a sword, who knows every move and counter-move, and he can teach them all to you. +1 Duel. Prime Stallion: The very best horses aren't easy to find and aren't cheap to maintain if they're to stay the best. Making room in your budget to always have the best horse money can buy available is a wise move for any Knight. +1 Joust. Middle-man: Assassinations are dangerous, especially to politicians, and aren't all Lords politicians? Cultivating middle-men with some deniability on your part is a must-do if underhandedness is in your toolbox. +1 Assassin. Unassuming idiot: That guy over there can't possibly be of interest, can he? He clearly looks like the village fool. Good, that's how he's supposed to look: no one ever suspects the idiot... +3 to escape rolls. Headhunter: He's good with faces and has a keen eye for them. If you need someone seized against their will, having someone who can pick them out even in a crowded tavern full of screaming people just after you bust down the door is a good investment. +2 Capture. Merchant: Greedy and amoral, merchants. Excellent with money, though! +1 Wealth. Orator: He was once a playwrite, spent time in a famous acting troupe in King's Landing, and co-wrote some play that was all the rage in the Free Cities. A man whose profession is to charm and entertain has uses beyond keeping your retinue regailed with tales of heroism and bravery, he's also very useful at teaching you how to come across more convincingly. +1 Charisma. Mystic: A fortune teller, some say; a professional con artist that has somehow duped a Lord into paying a sizeable salary for nonsense, say others. No matter your opinion, it is hard to deny that this mystic can either see the future or has a good eye for assessing the odds and suggesting the likely outcome... +2 Fate. Siege Engineer: A man who has studied the art of siege warfare. He allows his employer to construct advanced siege equipment and build siege weapons.

Personal Edicts Chosen:

Retainers Hired:

Total Personal Edicts/Retainers Cost:

Men at Arms

Select from this thread Ignore hire costs, calculate cost based on upkeep cost. The usual rules regarding point caps remain in force.

Troops selected:

Total Cost:

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Grand Total Cost of all expenses:

Note: Ensure your total cost does not exceed your total incomes. Once a budget is set, moderation must be informed of any changes you make to it. You can alert them via the Request Moderator Action thread.

[Poach]

Thoughts on this? Especially the "Men At Arms" section. I know hire cost was always meant as a barrier for entry, slowing people from accumulating standing forces by making them either save up or buy in batches over several weeks, but without dynamic vaults there's no way to make a hire cost mechanism work any more.

Should we lower the points cap instead?

Current caps:

Lord Paramounts may have 20,000 points worth of Professional Soldiers
High Lords may have 15,000 points worth of Professional Soldiers
Lords and Merchant Princes may have 10,000 points worth of Professional Soldiers.
All below the Lord or Merchant Prince rank (except Sellsword characters) may have 7,000 points worth of Professional Soldiers.

I propose we simply cut them by ~50% to:

LPs: 10,000 points.
HLs: 6,000 points.
Lords/Merchant Princes: 3,000 points.
All others: 1,000 points.

Thoughts? Is it too high for Lords Paramount? 6,000 points for all senior noblemen, 3,000 for junior and 1,000 for Knightly and below instead?

[jacb547]

So we'd be doing away with the yearly vault stuff? That's very good. I guess the point caps are fine, maybe a bit too high for the Lord Paramount specially in such a small setting with only one actual Lord Paramount might be overpowered.

[Poach]

Yep, the plan is to ditch yearly vaults and have players set their budget once at the start of the game. They can then change it if they want to by telling the mods, but the years can roll by without having to bother about it again if you don't want to make changes.

[The Mad Skylord]

I like it. 6'000 for senior nobles sounds about right. Are senior nobles Kings, Queens and High Lords?

[jacb547]

That's great, and also removes a weekly based pain for many of us.

[Poach]

Senior Nobles are LPs and HLs. I suppose "King" counts as LP in this instance since we're in only one Kingdom, meaning only one LP/King anyway.

[The Mad Skylord]

I suppose senior nobles could also encompass nobles who don't have a high natural rank, e.g minor lord, but possess a high unnatural rank, e.g Warden or Marshal.

[Pinkerton]

What about Merchant Lords? How much retinue would they get?

I am not convinced of the "personal" edicts, we used to have buildings that upgraded skills and no one seemed to like them, so they were scrapped, and the retainers seem to be way too cheap for what they give.

Hate to sound so whiny

[Lucius Malfoy]

I am gonna go on a limb and say that I don't really see the point of the retainers. I never used them and I feel like I never will. I mean they are good to help jumpstart lesser lords or new players, but beyond that, I just don't see them as a necessity.

I agree with the point caps changing to 6k for seniors, 3k for juniors and 1k for anything below Knightly. There isn't too much of a gap and it seems more appropriate.

@Skylord: I think its better to keep seniors as Kings, LPs and HLs while Juniors are Minor Lords and so forth. Doesn't really make sense for a minor lord to be an exception to gain the senior limit all because they have a special title. It would inbalance Junior and Senior limits because there are a lot of houses with 'special' titles such as Warden and Marshal. Westeros seems to be a place where any house, Major and Minor, could have a special title.

I am mostly against it cause there are many minor houses compared to LPs and HLs. That and, like I said, it wouldn't make sense to make an exception all because a minor lord, or any lord for that matter, has a special title.

[Poach]

Retainers have been about for a while, they're not actually new. Do people think I should make them more costly? 5,000 Dragons per trait point has worked for us for several games now.

Merchant Lords get whatever rank they land at: if they're a High Lord (eg inherit one of the High Lordships, Castamere is grantable if we're post Reyne-Tarbeck Rebellion for example) they get 6,000. If they get a landed title that's one of the minor Lordships (eg their liege is a High Lord or they're sworn directly to the LPs seat without vassals of their own) they get 3,000.

We also never had buildings that upgraded skills, except for the Whisper House (+spy rolls in your own territory) and Sellsword Guildhall upgrades.

We need the personal edicts because you can't just buy weapons and armour any more, since we're ditching (or I'm proposing we ditch) weekly vault updates in favour of this.

[Lord Dread]

Retainers have been about for a while, they're not actually new. Do people think I should make them more costly? 5,000 Dragons per trait point has worked for us for several games now.

I would suggest to do so, as they all seem pretty cheap, looking by what they grant you.
Because why in example would I buy myself a Greatsword for 40k, when the weapon smith grants me for just 15k a similiar stat? I see imbalances for the early game already, as people might still be used to buy their armour and swords first, while the cheap cost of the retainers is more lucrative.
Plus, as nice as the retainers are, it's pretty likely, that people just buy them to stack up their character as some of us tend to do in the past - take the Clegane Lord from PM as a major example, where the main focus clearly was on makeing this character literally as strong as the original Mountain from the books. And though he did a great job with it, while I felt we balanced out a lot of the game to make characters less trait stacked (trait limit to 3 max. at character creation is imo still one of the best solutions), the retainers might harm this balance as any duel with a Greatsword + Blacksmith + Duels 3 stat would turn out roll-wise most likely in a slaughter due to all the boni, especially against an unprepared opponent or a character, who is meant to be more than a duel robot.
Imo I would love to not see several people going mayhaps just for the above mentioned combo, because they need this advantage in certain situations, thus rather nerf the effects to justify the prize and/or raise the prize for retainers as well. (+5 duels really seems a bit much).

[The Mad Skylord]

Well, the thing is, we can't have greatswords anymore. We can't buy weapons or armour, so the smiths are a replacement. The household budget replaces currency.

[Lord Dread]

Well, the thing is, we can't have greatswords anymore. We can't buy weapons or armour, so the smiths are a replacement. The household budget replaces currency.

Okay, but then weaponsmiths are still too cheap imo. Their cost should be higher.

[Lucius Malfoy]

You sure we can't buy greatswords, weapons or armour anymore? I don't remember anyone saying that.

[Poach]

He's right. Budgets replace vaults: you can't "buy" anything any more. The Bulls Wares thread is basically useless except for Sellsword and Merchant characters. I can make Sellswords work with budgets but can't make Merchants work, so vaults will remain solely for Merchants, really.

[Lucius Malfoy]

If we up the costs, we will have to up some incomes. I would rather we run this as it is in the game and change it if necessary.

[Poach]

A +2 weapon used to cost 20k, so how is 5k/year unreasonable? A +5 weapon used to cost the same but prevented you getting the full armour set. By spending 20k/year on a character you can have +5 duels and +10hp. I think that's a reasonable amount of money out of the usual player incomes of 50-90k.

[The Mad Skylord]

One thing: How does Valyrian Steel factor into this?

[Poach]

Retains whatever +duel stats it has and you don't need to budget in weaponsmiths, I would suppose?