AI Focused DLC (or questions the still have never answered).

[AnthoniusII]

Its a common belief that the last 2 TW games provide the dammest and stupiest AI behavior ever created in TW games.
Rome I, M2TW/Kingdoms and espesialy Shogun II AI "lessons" seam that never have been used or managed to become factional in the last TW games.
Question: Can we hope (after so many DLCs and so many Mods that now CA/SEGA developers have in their disposal) for a FDLC focused on AI that would justify our money we spend and our trust to that Company?

• Can we expect auto-order of AI controled allied army like in Kingdoms?
• Can we expect 2-3 siege armies against a forified city (that its walls wont get sick by rain and cold) with their own siege equipment and their own siege asault paths like in RomeI ?
• Can we expect Rome II and Attila horsemen to dismount and follow infantrymen in wall asaults like in Shogun II?
• Can we expect in Rome II and Attila ships that can be captured and repaired and used by their new owners like ETW and Shogun II?
• Can we hope new features like tunnels instead of sick walls?

Question: Can we expect more cities models or we will stay on those cloned ones forever?
As a customer (that means I PAYED for those games) moderators of this Forum must allow me a couple of more questions.
In previus TW games CA/SEGA devs "accused" a modder (no need to tell his name) as fraud when he claimed that he improved TW games AI behaviur. We all had the good will to believe CA/SEGA devs because they were suposed that they knew their games better than everyone. But since that modder never "provided" a AI based mod we had our worst AI expirience in official TW games created by those that "accused" the modder. Today's CA/SEGA policy seamed that have been changed and now "rewards" mods and modders but the hardcore of the game remains STUPID as "inteligence"!
Final Question: Can we hope that some day our TW games will reach the level CA/SEGA promised and advertised inorder to take our money or we will be allowed to accuse CA/SEGA for advertising fraud as their actions and results allow us to believe?

[Vardan the Great]

I sign below each word written in the post above. I do not simply play single player campaigns, only MP campaigns or online battles, cuz AI movements are absurd and it is just a waste of time to sit against your monitor and follow the that is happening on the campaign map.

[Fanest]

• Can we expect Rome II and Attila horsemen to dismount and follow infantrymen in wall asaults like in Shogun II?

This yolo charge was stupider than torches in RTW2 tbh, in general STW2 sieges are the worst of them all.
Ppl who want a better challenge should play head-to-head campaigns which doesnt mean that CA can neglect AI but we all know that AI will never be as good as human player - well at least not in this century.

[Cpt. Cortes]

A big NO. I agree with your post, totally agree. Rome 2 Total War must be called Rome 2 Total Lie, because we pay 59,99€ (at last in my country) for a game, the same game that now, 2 years before, Im still waiting, me and many others. Now CA want money, he make good visuals to have MASSIVE BATTLES YEAHHHH THAT IS GOOOD on multiplayers, just to see many soldiers killing each other. There are people who only want this, so CA make his games for this people. Warhammer is the evidence, good graphichs, good animations, DRAGONS, GIANGTS!!! GOOOOOD BETTER THAN 10.000 LEGIONARIESSS. But with a crap AI, just see how the AI is in Rome 2. And Im writing this as a Warhammer fan from years, and TW fan since Rome/Medieval2. That is the politic of CA these days, new visual content, to make "visual customer" not to us, "TW customers" buy their games.

Next DLC will be Charlemagne, as I said since the first day of these files in Assembly Kit, we can wait this DLC in early December in order to release it just in time to Christmas.. Next will be a "Cultural pack", I dont know what factions, maybe Slavs, Armenia and other one, just because people are talkinga about it, then CA can say "hey!! We listen to you people, you must love us! Come on, buy our new WarDLChammer Total Lie". Dont understand wrong me, I like so much the last DLC and Attila in general is a good game (even if Im lover of ancient history). They can make more money with a new campaign about 3th Century Crisis, a brigde between Rome 2 and Attila, better than 3 factions, something we modders can make easily and better than CA, as many modders did before, just take a look to Little Legionarie mod, or DramaBelli roman units, or Avetis CIU project. For this 3TH century DLC, they can use a lot of models/resources from both games, merge in a DLC, new startpos, a few new models to romans and that's all, easy DLC, more easy than Charlemage, and better.

"You costumers want a AI DLC, do you want everything we promised you in game previews? We already did a game, a good game, is totally optimized. Now take this, new copy/paste factions, play with it while you see our BADASS ORKS KILLING EMPIRE SOLDIERS ON YOUTUBE". - CA.

Sorry for my bad english.

[Candy_Licker]

Question: Can we hope (after so many DLCs and so many Mods that now CA/SEGA developers have in their disposal) for a FDLC focused on AI that would justify our money we spend and our trust to that Company?

No. An improved AI would be a thing for a patch anyway, maybe accompagnied by a dlc/expansion like with Kingdoms back then, but we all know that won't happen. All their dlc have been lazy stuff recently, cosmetics, but nothing that improves the core of the game. Their post-release product-maintenance is just horrible, and Attila with Attila they've moved on long ago.
It's a shame, since it has some potential. But I think with this trainwreck of an engine it was never meant to be a great game.

[Thrasymachus]

An artificial intelligence improvement shouldn't be called a FreeLC or a DLC but an update, a patch, because that's what it is. It's not extra content and shouldn't be considered as such. We consumers have already grown accustomed to half finished and mutilated products on launch, I hope that, in five years, the notion that better artificial intelligence is optional and comes with a price will not be part of the norm.

[AnthoniusII]

I sent a message to Jack Lusted on his wall here in TWC. He avoided to answer. Now in 20 days a new DLC will arrive. I already saw CA/SEGA's conseption of historical accyracy even to this promo video of the new DLC. Kite shields in Frankish soldiers of 8th century!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder. Do they actually have historians that advice them or not?

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

Its a common belief that the last 2 TW games provide the dammest and stupiest AI behavior ever created in TW games.
Rome I, M2TW/Kingdoms and espesialy Shogun II AI "lessons" seam that never have been used or managed to become factional in the last TW games.
Question: Can we hope (after so many DLCs and so many Mods that now CA/SEGA developers have in their disposal) for a FDLC focused on AI that would justify our money we spend and our trust to that Company?

In order to not confusing the AI i speaking about is Campaign AI, for BAI is not my area of expertize, so cant truly speak about this part.
Common belief if yes, but the reality itself was far more compleks, i am here speak neither defend C.A nor attacking someone else belief. The Fact itself, the latest engine (Rome 2 and Attilla) provide the AI with very compleks db structure, one who can say heavy upgrade in term Campaign AI then Shogun 2 itself.

However its lack of optimization, resulting weak game play experience, but all the raw material to build higly sophiscated Campaign AI was there, only waiting someone to shape and fine tuning it, so if one asking C.A to release AI dlc, i guess the answer is probably " big no" , considering they already give the game a raw CAI , its do have latent power, if someone know how to harness and use it well.

Can we expect auto-order of AI controled allied army like in Kingdoms?
Can we expect 2-3 siege armies against a forified city (that its walls wont get sick by rain and cold) with their own siege equipment and their own siege asault paths like in RomeI ?
Can we expect Rome II and Attila horsemen to dismount and follow infantrymen in wall asaults like in Shogun II?
Can we expect in Rome II and Attila ships that can be captured and repaired and used by their new owners like ETW and Shogun II?
Can we hope new features like tunnels instead of sick walls?
We all had the good will to believe CA/SEGA devs because they were suposed that they knew their games better than everyone. But since that modder never "provided" a AI based mod we had our worst AI expirience in official TW games created by those that "accused" the modder.

From the demand list lots of it was BAI stuf. You mean Sir Darth ? I dont know Empire and Napoleon CAI engine, however i do bit much about shogun 2, despite common belief, the darth mod itself dont tweak anything regarding CAI personality , but he do tweaks from campaign mechanic, and diplomacy system and mostly lots of time he spent by fine tuning BAI system via units stats balancing. Darth itself was good modder that able to show the world, how good the Total War engines if carefully fine tune properly. But he did not change any CAI on the game system still its already enough to give people something hard to forget experience.CA statement back there not realy lie at all, half of it was true. But yeah Darth do much better compare with Vanilla

Speaking BAI i cant say much here. Harnessing BAI power itself can be considered as elusive work, since its was on LUA script. Most modder like Radious do harness its power by smartly fine tune BAI aspect and variable, like units stats , etc, etc. If you want to modify the BAI core , try to look on script file on db. All the booty and trinket was there provided you know how to extract the knowledge and apply it back.

Today's CA/SEGA policy seamed that have been changed and now "rewards" mods and modders but the hardcore of the game remains STUPID as"inteligence"!

On contrary the Campaign AI was smart actually, however since the game itself was create for common ages,so the C.A do implement a system where its split the CAI power into many small fracture and give its randomly to other AI faction, in Attilla Total War the system itself being knowns as "Wheel of fortune", every new game its will start using new personality to make the game experience fresh and different from one player to other player despite playing the same faction, same difficulty, and same setting.

While its seem genius as its sound, but in reality its doesnt realy good at all, because the original system was meant to created lots of new personality that have its own flaws either its greedy, defensive, oppurtunist and many more, all have its power and weakness. As cool as its sound, provided the AI with weakness, make human able to exploit it during the game via diplomacy not realy make game itself into more smarter, but yeah in the surface seem cool enough have theater soap opera show between AI

With much patience, however its do possible to create CAI that strong in logic and diplomacy, by combining each AI good trait, and learn to smart modify it to play by your rule, and rather using multiple personality, we just use single CAI personality so all AI faction can start as equal in term its logic and diplomacy.

As the game evolved from one engine to another , as so with BAI and CAI itself, its very hard if people who barely knew the engines look on its db file and try to figure it out how to tweak it. Its like learning math you need to start from grade 1, grade 2 , grade 3. If you never learn grade 1, and try to skip it and just start fresh from grade 3, then you will find many invicible wall blocking your mind. Not many modder want just to focus on single specific area and try to sharp their skill and their mind by continuely learning and adapting with change from new engines and try to apply what he already learn from previous engine.

People do tend make easy ways by waiting somebody to release it work, and rather learning it properly just start make some private tweaking here and here and releasing as his own work. Because they start it like that, then the devil circle begin and the modder itself never realy know the inside bely of the game itself and thus cant do much when facing with new engines.

Old engines
-Empire (1 grade)
-Napoleon (2 grade)
-Shogun 2 (3 grade)

New Engines
- Rome 2 (1 grade)
- Attila (2 grade)
- Warhammer (3 grade)

As many people dont know the guys who realy open crack up the Shogun 2 AI itself was Sir Hedge, he is the guys who generously write his own discovery lots of CAI variable should do. However with the birth of the New Engines, most of the knowledge was cease to exist since its never being used again .

Trust me rather you guys post it to C.A official member like Jack Lusted, its will proved useless, its better you guys start looking the LUA script, and make some private testing and make a good thread concerning BAI where you guys can pour you knowledge from test and tweak you made regarding BAI. Its more usefull and healthy especially for modding community. Like this old people done

Made complaint thread was good, but its realy add and teach people nothing in the end except more hate to our dear game Developer Creative Assembly. Just my two cent from modder perspective. God only helps those who learn to help themselves