Pikes!!

**AugustusRoman** · November 15, 2015, 02:58 AM

Hi! I would like to propose a way to make the pikes working better. I am not sure if this is possible. My suggestion is simple.
Take a hoplite unit (with their mechanisms) and simple change the spear to be longer, so that the collision would be detective. Ofcourse, you need to change stats armor etc.
Therefore you have a pike unit with hoplite mechanisms. I am not sure if this can be done, but you can give it a try I think. Let me know what do u think!!

**Petellius** · November 15, 2015, 05:17 AM

why would this be preferable? I cannot see the advantages?

**ABH2** · November 17, 2015, 05:58 PM

Well, I'm a little unsure what the OP meant myself. The hoplite formation in Rome 2 was very bugged as is. The only kind of advantage I see is it breaks up unlike the phalanx one which basically stays on and can be switched into in an instant.

**AugustusRoman** · November 18, 2015, 02:10 AM

The point is that pikes will behave better with a hoplite mechanism......you can try, u have nothing to lose

**KAM 2150** · November 18, 2015, 03:24 AM

Without pike phalanx formation there would be no collision and very bad clipping. Weapon reach only matters for pike phalanx formation, you could give hoplites a mile long spear and a mile of reach, but they would still fight their enemies standing face to face with them. I still have no idea how making pike phalanx fight as any other units would make it better, they would never switch for their swords so they would use pikes for attack even if the enemy would be inches away.

**Cesco** · November 23, 2015, 03:10 AM

Maybe the visual effect of the phalanx proposed by Augustus Roman would be worst, but the core mechanism would perform better, in my opinion. From the tests i made it turned out that phalanx in Rome 2 and in Attila is basically broken, as it seems to deal only the collision damage, wich means that it can kill its enemy only when these are charging or moving.

i think this could be an interesting idea.

**KAM 2150** · November 23, 2015, 04:38 AM

Regular damage is also important, for example pikes with damage on pair with regular weapons turn into murderbots. For actual combat and visuals I explained in my post above why it would not work.

**Cesco** · November 23, 2015, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by KAM 2150

Regular damage is also important, for example pikes with damage on pair with regular weapons turn into murderbots. For actual combat and visuals I explained in my post above why it would not work.

Indeed.
Pikes are almost impossible to balance, because:
-if you give them normal attack values they'll slaugther enemy units in the early stages of combat
-if you lower attack values and collision damage, on the other hand, they will be absolutely ineffective after the charge.

as i said, i think that depends on the fact that all pike units, when in phalanx formation, exclusively base their attack on collision damage, which is only applied in the first stage of the combat.

**KAM 2150** · November 23, 2015, 06:10 AM

In my balance colission damage has no effect on them and they actually only kill after the chargé so completly opposite to what you stated.

**Petellius** · November 23, 2015, 09:08 AM

pikes are a

to balance. They always do exactly the opposite of what you expect. With 1hp Pikes are almost impossible to get right.

**radsix** · November 23, 2015, 01:33 PM

We could just replace the old pike animations with new ones. It may work

**ABH2** · November 23, 2015, 01:38 PM

The issue is more underlying than animation issues. The formation itself works one way. Battles aren't my area of expertise, but just from experience I really doubt using the more broken hoplite formation would be progress. And to me, there's never been any question that hoplites were more broken than pikes.

**Cesco** · November 23, 2015, 02:02 PM

When i said "in the early stage of the combat" i didn't mean exactly "during the charge", but in the following moments as well. i guess it depends on collision, because the damage is inflicted only when enemy is moving. I tried your mod Kam and it's surely one ofthe best, but even there pike units have this problem. Not your fault obviusly, since, as far i know, there is no way to get phalanx to work properly.

it's maybe the maojor flaw of rome 2 and Attila.

**KAM 2150** · November 23, 2015, 02:31 PM

Yeah, that one is true, you can never make it work exactly as they should. For example you can either make it work in combat or make it look good visually. There is no middle ground as far as I know, hopefully someone will find more on the subject.