A letter to the Holy See

[Gandalfus]

Holy Father, Bishop of Rome, Supreme Pontiff, Successor of Saint Peter,

I write to you, Holy Father, concerning a religious matter, one that plagues the fledgling Crusader states. Officially, Antioch has always held a Patriarchate within the Catholic Church, but unfortunately, this high office has been left vacant since the last Patriarch, an Orthodox Christian of the Greek rites, fled to Constantinople. Whilst a Bishop of Antioch has been named, there is no Patriarch; no higher religious authority that the noble Latin Christians of Antioch may look to in times of strife. The nearest is that of Jersualem, separated from Antioch by dozens of Moslem principalities, unable to spread the word of God to the populace. I humbly implore you, Holy Father, to restore the ancient Catholic patriarchy of Antioch, so that the troubled flock may have a figure to look to, a representative of the Holy Father himself. With a Patriarch in Antioch once more, the true word of God could be spread to the surrounding lands that have been for too long plagued by heathenry. In the name of the noble Christians of Antioch, I submit this humble request in the hope that Your Holiness will take this into consideration.

Your faithful servant, and humble Christian,
Stephen de Aumale, Princeps de Antioche.

[The Mad Skylord]

OOC: I went with 1-25 he says no, and 26-100 he says yes. Got a 92.

Faithful son of God,

I have heard the pleas of God's children. It grieves me to know that the lands held by the noblest, holiest and most pious of Europe are denied religious authority by the heathens. To this end, I have decided to renew the office of Patriarch of Antioch. I thank you, my son, for your honesty in your report of this problem. No man should be without the word of God! The appointment shall be made immediately, so the people of the Levant may have a chance to amend their devilish and heathen ways before they go to Purgatory and hell!

Signed,
Paschel II
Pope, Holy Father, Bishop of Rome, Supreme Pontiff, Successor of Saint Peter

[Gandalfus]

OOC: Well it is an actual historical thing but, the modifiers are up to you mate. thought it would be nice to create some early friction between Antioch and Jerusalem.

[The Mad Skylord]

Right. Done. Hope I didn't make a ridiculous mistake or something.

[Gandalfus]

The current pope is paschal, but other than that, decent job

[The Mad Skylord]

Really? I looked it up and it said Urban was pope in 1098. I blame Wikipedia.

[Lord William]

For the purpose of the game the church is unified under one head, I'm sorry but your idea failed

[Gandalfus]

Where does it say that LW?

[The Mad Skylord]

It doesn't. Nothing in the rules says there can be but one Patriarch in the Levant. I don't know how it will be handled, if someone will aux it, be it a local mod, a proper mod or you, but I'm pretty sure it is allowed.

[Lord William]

It doesn't. Nothing in the rules says there can be but one Patriarch in the Levant. I don't know how it will be handled, if someone will aux it, be it a local mod, a proper mod or you, but I'm pretty sure it is allowed.

1) You just pulled numbers out of your ass and just rolled (I don't mean to sound rude)
2) you have have the authority to make game decisions like this, only rolls for battles, duels, babies
3) we don't even have players to play such a position, it would bias for someone to control both the church and the "crown"

Where does it say that LW?

its always been like that since the days of GSTK, Archbishop of Canterbury controlled all of England even conquered Wales Scotland and Ireland

[Gandalfus]

This isn't GSTK mate. Different game, and there is nothing wrong with me trying to implement something that is historically accurate. Doesn't say anywhere that I'll control the patriarch, just means I'm not beholden to Jerusalem's will, giving Antioch a little bit more independence when it comes to religious matters. This is not one kingdom. This is a loose set of principalities. I'm not trying to merge the state and the church, and it is in fact justified in my home thread between me and Mutton Chops. Complaining about this because it lessens your character's power is not a valid reason to dispute it.

Edit: In fact, I'll actively welcome a player patriarch of Antioch. I'm just trying to make it a more independent crusader state, as it was in history.

[The Mad Skylord]

There was no decision to make. It was simpky a yes no roll, after some historical research, i realised the Pope had very little reason to say no. So 25-75 percent chance. There was no pulling anything out of my ass.

The fact is that Antioch had a Patriarch and Jerusalem had a Patriarch, historically. Engled had two Archbishops, but Canterbury has always been the most important one. Scotland and Ireland never had Archbishops. You're following an irrelevant line of argument. There was a roll that needed doing, no one was here to do it so - as LM told us to - I did it.

[Lucius Malfoy]

What Skylord did was perfectly fine. I would have a done a different range personally, but he still did a moderating duty when I wasn't present. Thank you, Skylord, for doing this.

If Eredin wants to, he can have an NPC be the Latin Patriarch of Antioch to replace the Greek one. And if a player wants to, they can take the role themselves.

[The Mad Skylord]

It was a pretty stupid range, but I'm still getting the hang of this.

[Lord William]

I refuse to support this decision, so don't expect me to play the priest

also this decision validates the importance of the papacy and unifying the church in which case players can become pope

[Gandalfus]

I don't want you to.

And does it really now? Why on earth would it validate that?

[Lucius Malfoy]

Gonna repeat my judgment; no to allowing players to become Pope as it makes no sense for one player to be in Rome while the rest of us are here. Unless we were playing the Papal States itself, I would not see any reason to allow a player to become Pope in a setting whose focus is the Crusader States of the Levant.

@Skylord: I would have gone with a 50/50. Though Paschal II would not see any reason to deny it, who would be willing to leave their European parishes for the sand covered lands of the Levant? Nice try on the roll though!

@Eredin: I can still choose another main, my friend, I would gladly rp the Patriarch of Antioch!

[Lord William]

Gonna repeat my judgment; no to allowing players to become Pope as it makes no sense for one player to be in Rome while the rest of us are here. Unless we were playing the Papal States itself, I would not see any reason to allow a player to become Pope in a setting whose focus is the Crusader States of the Levant.

@Skylord: I would have gone with a 50/50. Though Paschal II would not see any reason to deny it, who would be willing to leave their European parishes for the sand covered lands of the Levant? Nice try on the roll though!

@Eredin: I can still choose another main, my friend, I would gladly rp the Patriarch of Antioch!

as the pope I could move the papacy to Jerusalem the birth place of Christ which would make it relevant

[Gandalfus]

That would be great actually, thanks LM. And thank you Skylord for being so diligent with the roll.

[Oznerol]

Pifff... The decision is pretty right, considering the patriarch of Antioch is one of the five traditional heads of the church: Constantinople, Antioch, Alexandria, Rome and Jerusalem. So, it's pretty legit. Moreso, you aren't expected to play every priest and every bishop in-game, as this was done to remove your authority over Antioch so would be extremely silly to grant you that title. Also, the patriarchy was restored historicaly. Also, no-one is supposed to ever become pope, you tend to forgot we have defined boundaries in this game. And for God's sake, forget abotu GTSK.