DEI feedback :-(

[DavidG]

Hi all, been trying out the dei update and whilst I love the concepts the gameplay just feels broken and I wondered if anyone else is having issues.

I've racked up over 1000 hours of dei gameplay and was really looking forward to this update and am super super grateful to everyone who makes it possible and am hopefully offering constructive feedbacck.

I'm about 100 turns into a Rome campaign on hard - but reduced battle setting to normal after about 60 turns.

1. AI is insanely overpowered in battles. Archers and slingers are defeating much more advanced melee units and cav - and general.
2. Despite having grain stores, and positive public order my army is starving but enemy armies in the same territory are not. (Global food is good)
3. Campaign AI seems out of balance also - other factions have multiple stacks, loads of agents but much less territory/regions than I hold.
4. Helvettii declare war, then a few turns later offer 3900 for peace. They have done it now 6 times - without the money id be bust!! When I agree we have green positive relations but they wont trade or agree non aggression - even if I pay.
5. Agent action which successfully halt a stack doesn't work. It shows that stck can't move - but they do.
6. Night attack seems broken too as defending stack or garrison get reinforced

Anyone else having similar issues? Or better experiences or advice?

Cheers

[FlashHeart07]

1. You say that the AI is overpowered yet you write that you have played at a difficulty higher than normal which is clearly stated to be the balanced one.

2. Are you using the fix pack? A lot of problems with the supply system have been fixed.

3. The AI have always had a bonus to income, food etc at difficulties higher than normal. With 1.1 some factions have recieved further income bonus to keep them alive. This Was requested by the players

5. That might need to be looked at if it doesnt work. But in my campaign Im capable of halting them

6. It works for me so I dont know what could be wrong in your game

[DavidG]

Thanks for getting back to me FlashHeart07.

1. I thought the recommended setting was hard for dei - that's what ive been playing for over 1000 hours. This is different, but even since downgrading the battle difficulty the AI is still very unbalanced.

2. Fix pack - no - but will go look for it now, thanks.

3. Cool - thanks again, I think I will re-start on normal.

Cheers

[Ivan_Moscavich]

Dozens if threads say normal. The scriptorium post says normal. And now it even says it on a frequent loading screen.
and you still somehow didnt catch a single one of those?

[DavidG]

I saw the loading screen - and thanks for your very kind message Ivan.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

I saw the loading screen - and thanks for your very kind message Ivan.

I wasnt harping on you. I was honestly curious. A lot of people keep asking the same questions despite us having the information plainly displayed.

So what i am trying to figure out is where else we can put this information so people actually see it.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Dozens if threads say normal. The scriptorium post says normal. And now it even says it on a frequent loading screen.
and you still somehow didnt catch a single one of those?

You are not talking about Campaign Dif. right?
The normal setting advice is for battle difficulty only??

Cheers

[Ivan_Moscavich]

You are not talking about Campaign Dif. right?
The normal setting advice is for battle difficulty only??

Cheers

Technically the campaign is balanced for normal. But hard is fine because the bonuses are minor.

I was reffering to battle difficulty regardless.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Technically the campaign is balanced for normal. But hard is fine because the bonuses are minor.

I was reffering to battle difficulty regardless.

Have you ever played with hard campaign and hardcore mod together???
or very hard campaign so you can tell me how it feels???

Cheers

[Ivan_Moscavich]

Have you ever played with hard campaign and hardcore mod together???
or very hard campaign so you can tell me how it feels???

Cheers

I haven't played the hardcore sub mod outside of testing because I disagree with the way the difficulty is increased. Gimping the player instead of improving the AI.

Some people like that for some reason, but I don't think that is the right approach.

I did test it on various difficulties including very hard, and yes it was playable, but it wasn't as fun as standard DeI to me.

[Alavin]

5. Agent action which successfully halt a stack doesn't work. It shows that stck can't move - but they do.

Anyone else having similar issues? Or better experiences or advice?

I also encountered this issue, but it is very rare and I wasn't able to reproduce it manually to test it out. 98% of the time the agent actions work as intended but in certain scenarios stacks can move even after succesfully sabotaged. It was a problem with previous versions too, so I would say it is not connected to the 1.1 release and maybe it is fault of the game itself rather than the mod (as always). But as I said before I wasn't able to reproduce it intentially so I can't say it certainly.

[DavidG]

Thanks Alavin - I'm sure most of my issues are as a result of playing on hard. I've reloaded a couple of saves and they are all on normal difficulty - I don't know why I've started the 1.1 campaign on hard. I'm going to put it down to old age :-) Thanks for getting back to me,

Cheers

[TheRazaman]

1) Battles are optimized for normal. Battles occur at a quicker pace — although still significantly slower than vanilla — in 1.1 compared to all other versions of DeI. This was largely done due to community feedback. BAI is awful in this game, so KAM (and others) had experimental battle packs made during 1.05 to try and make them more challenging. This included quickening the pace, allowing the AI to "see" more of the field so it could make sensible maneuvers etc... It will just take some adjustment for you to get used to. Its really more satisfying now.

2) Fix pack 1.1b

3) CAI has always been given a boost compared to the player, large factions moreso than small ones.

4) CAI will CAI

5) to DavidG and Alavin. If you ever notice that happen again, I would reload the turn, make another save right before you end turn and keep it aside for now. If this becomes more than a one-off, then Dresden and the other devs could use the save files to try and pinpoint what caused that bug.

6) Same as #5, although I've not seen this happen so it may just be a one-off

[DavidG]

Thanks Razaman - im all over fix pack 1.1b.

[Don_Diego]

Yep battle difficulty is balanced at normal level. Campaign Hard is good but a challenge and in early game having the campaign at Normal level might be recommended for less experienced players. It is possible to be wiped out in a hard campaign, as Rome i found Macedon as a huge challenge making what i thought would be a quick series of battles turning into a decade long war of attrition. That is why I love the challenge on hard!

So to sum up HARD campaign means HARD!

Also bonus to ai means you have to face of against real superpowers like Rome, Macedon, Carthage etc. No longer can you just steamroll over them all!

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Yep battle difficulty is balanced at normal level. Campaign Hard is good but a challenge and in early game having the campaign at Normal level might be recommended for less experienced players. It is possible to be wiped out in a hard campaign, as Rome i found Macedon as a huge challenge making what i thought would be a quick series of battles turning into a decade long war of attrition. That is why I love the challenge on hard!

So to sum up HARD campaign means HARD!

Also bonus to ai means you have to face of against real superpowers like Rome, Macedon, Carthage etc. No longer can you just steamroll over them all!

I used to play hard campaign with Normal battles yes...
But I really wanna start a game with hard campaign and Dresden's hardcore mod...
Do you think it'll be too much???

Cheers

[DavidG]

Thanks Don Diego! I'm jumping in again, fix pack 1.1b, campaign hard, battle normal - fingers crossed :-)

Thanks again to DEI - great great mod. Love it - and the help when I get stuck!

[Dresden]

A note about agents - they can no longer lock an army down. They can reduce its movement, but not completely take it away. Some of the tooltips may not be fully updated about this. I am still working on tracking them all down.

[ptagi]

I always play campaign very hard with battles on normal. Even then I find it easy to corner the AI and get territory. I just slow down my own progression by not repairing damaged buildings after I sacked and looted a settlement. I let them repair automatically and then I convert. This to make it a bit more difficult for me. But still it's quite easy to overcome. After a while all the other factions (especially Rhodos and Knossos) are begging for NAP's, alliances and stuff.

[Kjertesvein]

1. AI is insanely overpowered in battles. Archers and slingers are defeating much more advanced melee units and cav - and general.

In regards to archers and slingers, as was explained in the battle overhaul preview/video posted by KAM, archers do more burst, while nerfing their sustained damage. He upped their dmg, but lowered their ammo. This is done to give the AI an edge, because of how the AI uses their ranged units. The A.I. tend to use their archers as front line skirmishers, then once the infantry collide they often stand back and do very little dps. Since the A.I. ranged units do most of their damage before the lines collide means that it's preferential to buff their damage and reduce the ammo.

The way I changed my playstyle was to rely more on heavily armored tanks in front. I always make sure my frontline was well armored and with good shields. Any flanking unit such as Velites and General's bodyguard units needs to be carefully protected by a tanky unit that can absorb enemy back line if they have multiply ranged units. I can no longer send unarmored skirmishers and generals straight into their archers alone anymore. I also opted for prioritizing Research before other stats, because of the importance of testudo.

Basically, select units with high armor and large shields for this task. This is not an easy task because elite units (generally the best at soaking) were made more expensive, while levies were made cheaper. So there is a counter to the counter tactic, but that's all part of the fun I guess.

~Wille