CA response

[hep]

Chaos preorder dlc response on the main forums

http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...rders-and-DLC?

[DavidtheDuke]

This is their fig leaf where they sound a bit more human. As I've said before, I'm not so miffed about this DLC etc and are preordering because we now have steam refunds, but at least they're more clearly saying they want more money basically or they want it sooner.

People can doubt CA's honesty (with regards to budget layouts) if they want, but they're laying out the final deal on the table this time. Take it or leave it.

[hep]

If they release reviews before the release date whilst the preorder offer still exists then I'm happy.
Providing they are unbiased reviews, that means no sponsorship.

That way the consumer can make an informed choice before losing out.

[Aquila_Mars]

It’s outside the scope and budget of the main game, but it’s developed in parallel. We hired a whole extra team to do this....

If this is true, than I can overlook this Chaos thing. (still won't pre-order though. I never pre-order things anymore.) As long as they aren't using the budget/time for the base/main game, it is okay.

[DavidtheDuke]

If this is true, than I can overlook this Chaos thing. (still won't pre-order though. I never pre-order things anymore.) As long as they aren't using the budget/time for the base/main game, it is okay.

If I were as anti-dlc as some on here I could easily say them having a "dlc team" is semantics: You could call it a cut-content team. Many people want literally anything that was developed pre-release as included content at $60. That's fine, that's the price they want. I think ti's worth more than that if the game works as marketing and gameplayers think it should work.

[Aquila_Mars]

The only issue I had with the whole thing was I was thinking they were using the main game budget to make DLCs, which is what I consider cut content, if they have a seperate team and a seperate budget for the DLCs, then I have absolutely no problems with it. More content for the game, yay.

Assuming, of course, that it is true.

[Cathal]

Chaos preorder dlc response on the main forums

http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...rders-and-DLC?

I haven't been following this as closely as most everyone else, but did they say from the start that you could play as Chaos if you get the DLC, and if you don't get the DLC, you can still play against them? If they said that from the start then I would imagine there would be next to no back-lash, and people should stop whining. If they didn't say that from the start, then that's just stupid.

[Manu La Canette]

Almost feels like they are eating beans wrapped in a blanket though... All joke aside, It seems that they politely put the blame on SEGA. This only shows the limits of nowadays game industry. SEGA could totally cash in a full game developpment, but the editor want minimum risks and full guarantees. That way, making pay the customers is a double win situation for them. It doesn't cost them a dime, and allow to extend the developpment further after release in separate parts charging for them. CA is obviously dealing with this situation just like us. But at least could they admit that is "cut-content". Because it simply is, by definition. Stop making excuse, let us just think about alternatives, I don't know... Kickstarter mechanics is perhaps a more healthy side revenue for developpment of even big games, planning features in transparence, submitting them to the fans, and they back them up or not. Period. I'd prefer paying extra by backing up something that I see how it will work and how it's made than buying stuff cut apart being blindfolded.

[hep]

They haven't made any mention about silencing negative opinions.

I would also like some guarantee that they will announce these reviews, rather than letting them slide past unnoticed.
And that they will use a wide variety of reviewer, not just a preferred selection.

[joedreck]

Disappointed by this comment. I do not have anything against DLC, but to say "we do not have time for command team, cause of the 4 factions", but finally found time for DLC. This is bad. They say they want it perfect, so just 4 factions first, but let so important thing out.

[DavidtheDuke]

The only issue I had with the whole thing was I was thinking they were using the main game budget to make DLCs, which is what I consider cut content, if they have a seperate team and a seperate budget for the DLCs, then I have absolutely no problems with it. More content for the game, yay.

Assuming, of course, that it is true.

There's really no way to know this or if it even matters. Just buy what you think is worth it from the game they put on the table.

[Tullaris]

It sounds like a pack of lies.You had to hire a new team, yet you offer it for free? Why is still in the basic game, only not playable then?


Why do you need people to pre-order so badly? Especially since there has been massive disappointment regarding your previous two titles? Preordering does not net you more profits at all.

My view:
- Pre-ordering incentives (especially as significant as 1/5th of the game) are only worthwhile if the product is bad and you want people to buy it before the reviews are out, or if need cash real quick.

- By offering otherwise paid DLC for free, they are trading future revenues for lower revenues now.

- The argument that you hired an extra team to do this, isn't valid. If you had just offered this as paid content rather than free, the DLC would have earned much more (and possibly the cost of the team back).

- The reason we do not like these big pre-ordering incentives is that we suspect strongly that the game is going to lack severely in quality, just like CA's previous two titles. CA knows this, and wants the sales in the bag before the game gets out. Ofcourse they will promise to patch it afterwards.

[Huberto]

It's a good response, especially Mike's.

But...he didn't really explain why pre-orders are so important to their company, except to admit there isn't a budget to do everything they'd like to do. Well, no . He's also revealing that the end-game hinges around a faction that wasn't budgeted for in the main game? Personally I'd rather they made a budget and had the confidence to stand behind it and have the game judged on its own merits.

Secondly, with respect to DLC's for TW they should be iterative -- like CIV and Paradox expansions -- adding in new features to main game. If they want to do faction DLC and campaign DLC that's fine too, but I think we'd be willing to pay extra for deeper games through a longer release cycle.

These aren't shooters and we're not clueless teens.

[Bust Nak]

Secondly, with respect to DLC's for TW they should be iterative -- like CIV and Paradox expansions -- adding in new features to main game. If they want to do faction DLC and campaign DLC that's fine too, but I think we'd be willing to pay extra for deeper games through a longer release cycle.

There is fine line with this too, while I don't mind missing out on factions or campaign, I would hate to miss out on features. DLCs that expand on features feels a lot less optional then content DLC.

[RogueLeader]

So then what was the deal with Rome 2? Can anyone possibly still explain that. What was that all about? Fool my once shame on you. Now its going to be a quality product.

[hep]

It sounds like a pack of lies.You had to hire a new team, yet you offer it for free? Why is still in the basic game, only not playable then?


Why do you need people to pre-order so badly? Especially since there has been massive disappointment regarding your previous two titles? Preordering does not net you more profits at all.

My view:
- Pre-ordering incentives (especially as significant as 1/5th of the game) are only worthwhile if the product is bad and you want people to buy it before the reviews are out, or if need cash real quick.

- By offering otherwise paid DLC for free, they are trading future revenues for lower revenues now.

- The argument that you hired an extra team to do this, isn't valid. If you had just offered this as paid content rather than free, the DLC would have earned much more (and possibly the cost of the team back).

- The reason we do not like these big pre-ordering incentives is that we suspect strongly that the game is going to lack severely in quality, just like CA's previous two titles. CA knows this, and wants the sales in the bag before the game gets out. Ofcourse they will promise to patch it afterwards.

My thoughts exactly, whether it is lies or not is regardless, either way it has all been sugar-coated by marketing.

As long as there are proper reviews out before release they cannot do another unfinished release.
My advice would be to wait for these reviews and then decide whether to buy or not.
You gain/lose nothing by preordering before then.

[Påsan]

Hm guess I was right on all points. Chaos in the vanilla game as Mongol esque late boss, they decided to add it as a DLC for this one despite not being the man focus of the game and it never was, Chaos getting a full release later with daemons and gods.


People should really stop doing the forum equivalent of running around screaming with hands above their heads and think about things objectively for a second before they post.


So question is: Do you ant to play as Chaos now, then huy the DLC/Pre order or do you want to wait for the second game to do so?

Secondly, with respect to DLC's for TW they should be iterative -- like CIV and Paradox expansions -- adding in new features to main game. If they want to do faction DLC and campaign DLC that's fine too, but I think we'd be willing to pay extra for deeper games through a longer release cycle.

Well they have kind of robbed themselves of the option of creating a simple faction DLC this time. New race, in this case Chaos, will ave to feature three new lords which each feature a minimum of 3 quest battles. If they are unique as well thats at least 9 "Historical battles" with their own items and stuff to gain on top of the unique race you'll be playing.

[Person012345]

I am sceptical. I mean, we all know this is a potential explanation and I don't buy it just because CA said it any more than because someone else said it. My reasoning being: http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/164869-Total-War-WARHAMMER-Dev-Blog-%E2%80%93-Chaos-Warriors-Pre-orders-and-DLC?p=1448420&viewfull=1#post1448420

However, a stipulation: I did say that if chaos daemons were going to be separate from chaos warriors (I asked joey in a thread she was talking in and she gave an answer that very much seemed like that wasn't the case) that this could actually change my mind on the whole thing. This means chaos won't be left out for people who only buy the mainline games (assuming daemons are a mainline faction) and so it's not nearly as egregious as if they cut them out completely for DLC. It only means a certain aspect of chaos is left out which... isn't good, but it's not as bad.

[Charerg]

I have to say I'm a bit disappointed by this part:

"The Race Pack enables you start a Grand Campaign as the Chaos Warriors, with a much-expanded roster and extra Legendary Lords to choose from. The Ai will then also take advantage of this expanded roster if you play another race in opposition."

I mean, why exactly doesn't the AI get access to the full Chaos roster if you don't buy the DLC? From my point of view this decision makes no sense, since they're not playable without the DLC anyway (and presumable the DLC is aimed at those who want to play Chaos).

As far as the "separate DLC team", I'd argue that all the people working on a game constitute a single team, regardless of how the workload is distributed. In other words, I don't buy this argument. From a consumer's point of view any part of the game finished at release could/should have been included in the core game. Whether it was done by a separate team or not is irrelevant.

That said, it's definitely good that we finally have some kind of response. I can definitely understand the "financial pressure" argument, but it's still sad that pre-orders are thought to have such value that a major part of the game is made "pre-order or pay" DLC. Personally, my decision not to pre-order remains, since although I understand the reasoning, I strongly disagree with the practice itself. Putting 20% of the game's content in a pre-order DLC is simply far too much, regardless of how it is justified.

But I do commend that CA "came out of the box" and gave some actual info regarding their decisions, as this definitely dispels a lot of the rumours and fringe theories such as "SEGA forced them to do it" and so forth.

[Napoleon Complex]

As long as the campaign preview is good I'm prepared to swing behind CA on this one. They've set out their position fairly well and there's nothing I can't understand there. Regarding the whole "why they need pre-orders" thing, it's as they say; it gives the publisher confidence in the product, and that confidence is needed if SEGA are going to devote their (now limited) funding to this particular franchise. As for paying a whole new team to develop a pre-order bonus, think about it. Companies need to invest in marketing, right? Well, instead of just advertising the game heavily, they put the funding into another team to develop pre-order DLC. See Rob's blog about pre-order bonuses.