Do you find with DEI 1.1 that you cannot afford as many elite units?

[mbrasher1]

I am finding with my play style that I cannot. Perhaps it is because we have to devote more building space to supply/logistics buildings, and perhaps it is because of higher corruption and unit upkeep. Anyways, how do you respond to this? More lower quality units (I am starting to find new uses for light peltasts, I have noticed).

[Dresden]

We tried to actually make a place for light/levy units to have a home in 1.1. There should be some reason to use them.

[Kjertesvein]

As a civilized faction

Since elite unites were nerfed ( higher cost and upkeep ), and levies buffed ( lower cost and upkeep ) I have two armies instead of one. The vanguard doing the heavy work, and the rearguard for support. The vanguard army consist of a balanced force of elite and medium troops, not pure elite troops anymore. Due to the increased value of elites, be careful in sieges and allow the Rearguard to clear the path, like ladders, gates and soaking up projectile fire. The vanguard army invest agents, army traditions and general points into campaign movement speed, reduced upkeep and unit replenishment giving it all the resource it needs to do the killing part.

The second army is the Rearguard, consisting of light cavalry, levy spearmen, peltasts, etc. Units that cost next to nothing, but provide decent support and are able to scare away enemy factions from ganging up on my vanguard by simply being numerous. It's important that they bring the numbers up, but also that they are light and able to quickly get in position during major battle engagements. Battlefield mobility is specially important for the support army, because heavier troops are extremely slow in this patch. The Rearguard's utility upgrades is focused into culture conversion, public order, etc. The first army goes in for the killing, while the support army makes sure the region is stable after conquest.

Ideally, I want a Military governor to accompany both of them on the ground, not in the army itself, as he now reduces upkeep for all armies in the province. Military Governors used to be a strong single-army buff, but is now an AOE effecting the province. Not as strong, but it's very important to keep the cost of multiply armies low regardless.

~Wille

[Daergar]

Given the difference in upkeep costs and how logistics can snowball, I'm running three armies with half medium and half levies. The idea is simply to overwhelm the AI with cannonfodder, instead of breaking them with elites, which is definitely a new playstyle for me (and I assume others). Good fun!

[zonks40]

While I struggled with it at first, I found that having a mix of units feels much more realistic than an army of top tier units, and I have come to value the elite units I do have so much more.
In battle my low tier units are the jab, my elite units are the right hook.

[Velico]

While I struggled with it at first, I found that having a mix of units feels much more realistic than an army of top tier units, and I have come to value the elite units I do have so much more.
In battle my low tier units are the jab, my elite units are the right hook.

That's exactly how it should be, it's good to see that people can--and are willing to--adapt. Elite units were way too common in the previous versions, something I--and many others--voiced concerns over. They were the cream of the crop for a reason, and I'm glad the change was made to represent them as such. They should be few, and expensive, but when you throw them into the fray they should wreck face and be able to turn the tide if properly deployed. So far I'm very pleased with the update.

I've always liked having three types of armies: offensive, defensive, reserve. My offensive are mostly professional with some elites, defensive are spear and missile heavy to inflict a lot of casualties in a cost-effective manner, and reserve were a mix of professional and levy to go where needed. It's nice to be able to organize like that again (or rather have to) instead of one full army of elites that roflstomp everything in their path. I never played like that, because I'm a historian and like to keep compositions mostly accurate, but I know a lot of people played like that and it made me sad.

[Ygraine]

That's exactly how it should be, it's good to see that people can--and are willing to--adapt. Elite units were way too common in the previous versions, something I--and many others--voiced concerns over. They were the cream of the crop for a reason, and I'm glad the change was made to represent them as such.

I reacted when I read this. After 1500~ hours in DeI, I can tell you that it was pretty much the opposite. Non-merc/non-AoR elites appeared at earliest mid mid-game / late mid-game for certain powerful factions, but generally late game. Most smaller factions still use levies/mid-tier troops up to late game where you began noticing them changing their troop quality types.
A mix of variables here:

• AI isn't able to replace old armies until they are defeated
• Restricted amount of building-slots in town demonstrate that some smaller factions will sometimes not even have a single barrack, which in turn hampers their troop quality
• The default DeI army cap being a tad too low does not unlock enough new army slots for them if they do manage to increase holdings when they've teched to better units (This means you might see that three of their armies have lower quality troops and only the fourth has good quality)

Example: In my 1.0 parthian campaign, once I reached the Seleucids at around turn 100-120~ (12 TPY GC) they already had white shields, royal peltasts and similar troops. At the same time factions like Armenia, Media and other remnant eastern factions still had full armies consisting of mostly nizangan/gund-i palta-quality troops.

So unless you meant late-game (or you're only talking about the players access to elites?) in your post, this does not coincide with my own experience.

[Daergar]

... (or you're only talking about the players access to elites?) in your post, this does not coincide with my own experience.

There you go, perfectly correct.

After 1500 hours, surely we've noticed that the AI uses templates for army composition, while players could run full elite stacks very early on.

So far in 1.1 I'm meeting nicely built AI stacks, with variations within a faction. Good fun!

[zonks40]

There you go, perfectly correct.

After 1500 hours, surely we've noticed that the AI uses templates for army composition, while players could run full elite stacks very early on.

So far in 1.1 I'm meeting nicely built AI stacks, with variations within a faction. Good fun!

Once I pass turn 100 I'm actually coming up against stacks that have better units than myself, playing as the Suebi and needing a fame level 4 to get my reforms is a real task, especially in a multiplayer campaign, where the AI only need to achieve a set number of turns for their reforms.
The game is harder, and after playing a Head to head radious campaign prior to our current 1.1, a lot more thought needs to be put into my moves, it's refreshing.

[ptagi]

I just finished a game with economic victory. Game lasted approximately 320 turns. I was still in Marian Era fielding 2 full elite legions only. I only had like 11 full regions. But I was fielding 11k-12k in Italy and 8k in Magna Gracia. Macedonia gave me 5k each turn. So yeah, you can run full elite legions (mine were only changed in Marian era to test out some aux spearrs and swords from the alps and uburzis region). The rest of my legions were 1 legionary cavalry, 2 hippies (from magna gracia), 1 first cohort, 5 legionaries, 2 vet legionaries, 4 cretan archers. Before that I was running around with full hastati/principes/triarii.

When conquering new terrain I barely had any rebellions. Now I think of it, I had none. A few slave rebellions in mid game because i was looting everything and enslaving the captives. But they were quickly crushed with a few mercenaries or they died trying to take the city.

If you abuse the generals with the Capable Bureaucrat and Rightful Sovereign traits, you can have massive powerhouses. Combine them with dignitaries focused on the tax traits and you have way to many money. I noticed I was giving the Boii 200k+ regularly, just to keep them alive from having war on all their fronts except mine.