Agents in 1.1

**Zarrk** · October 26, 2015, 10:14 AM

First congratulations on releasing a major build without CA throwing another surprise patch breaking the phenomenal work done by team.

Gven that there is no hints in-game or patch notes about the changes made to agents, is it possible to have a rundown of their actual abilities ?
It is a little deconcerting to see a spy succeding at a 'poison provisions' order gaining the 'false supplier' trait and killing nobody except maybe the general's food taster.

Also I suppose it wouldn't be possible for agents actions to affect the supply state of armies and finally 'wrecking the baggage train' would have a meaning.

**FlashHeart07** · October 26, 2015, 10:18 AM

This should be in one of the previews and is most likely also in the final release notes. Spies CANNOT poison armies, ONLY garrissons. We are not able to remove the option, just tweak it.
And Im positive that this has been announced as I have read all the previews before they were released

**Zarrk** · October 26, 2015, 11:12 AM

Thanks for the answer, you're right my confusion was mostly due to the prewiew being more detailled (and not final) than the release notes on this subject, I also thought the agent traits were to be modified but it looks it's only true for the skills.

Technically speaking has anything be done to prevent the AI from trying to poison armies or is it fair game that I slip laxatives in their rations like before ?

**FlashHeart07** · October 26, 2015, 11:38 AM

So far I havent experienced the AI trying to poison my armies but I cannot be sure.
Skills will most likely be tweaked for later versions of the mod

**suras333** · October 30, 2015, 01:55 AM

So.. Poisoning armies doesn't do anything now? I poisoned an army (no one died - I know), but I manage to stop the army. Next turn they fully move..

How can an army be stopped now or slow down?

Thanks?

**FlashHeart07** · October 30, 2015, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by suras333

So.. Poisoning armies doesn't do anything now? I poisoned an army (no one died - I know), but I manage to stop the army. Next turn they fully move..

How can an army be stopped now or slow down?

Thanks?

You can still slow armies down using some of the other abilities, like wrecking the bagage train. These also have a much higher chance of slowing the enemy down.
Poisoning armies were never ment for stopping or slowing down armies it just proved to be the best option as you would damage the enemy and slow/stop them. Too me it was both annoying and OP.

Garrisons can still be poisoned.

**suras333** · October 30, 2015, 03:20 AM

Ok, thanks!

I also think that was a very smart decision to remove Poisoning armies. A very small change with a huge impact.

**UsulDaNeriak** · October 30, 2015, 07:48 AM

Perhaps you can change "Poison Provisions" into "Poison Garrisons", and also change the text in the skill-description. And of course in the skills-spreadsheet in the user manuals.

I once have learned the hard way, that no change should pass the release and quality management as long as the documentation is not fully changed as well. Please take that as a constructive and positive feed back.

**godwrote** · October 30, 2015, 04:24 PM

I Play Odysian Kingdom.
I have a big problem with Agents and Generals... most of my Agents and Generals have very bad Characteristics. More Malus then Bonus. Generals i cant sack but the Agents i can.... but this is crazy... for example i take an Agent which givs me +1 growth and +1 public order...ok so i think GREAT i Take that one. But than i look aat his character and find out that because of his character he gets -3 growth and - 3 Public Order... BAM 2300 credits wasted........ . I am about to think about to dont buy these guys.. because without any agents my Local town is better than a Local town with an agent that has more malus than anything else.

**Dresden** · October 30, 2015, 05:39 PM

If you could only pick the good archetypes, the entire trait system would be pointless.

**FlashHeart07** · October 30, 2015, 10:01 PM

We cant all have good traits

not me included ofc. Im perfect

**zonks40** · October 30, 2015, 10:13 PM

If a General is not to your liking, just assassinate him.

**BMLlednar** · November 01, 2015, 11:34 PM

So...What DOES the spy's cunning-based army attack do? From what I've read in the patch notes it sounds like it just...does nothing? The agents are designed so that each sabotage target can be approached using any of the three stats. Outright removing the spy's cunning option against armies breaks the symmetry, which strikes me as quite odd. If the old effect was too powerful, wouldn't it be better to replace it with something else rather than completely remove an interaction? Maybe something related to the new supply system, that seems rather fitting for a poison-based ability.

**FlashHeart07** · November 02, 2015, 12:37 AM

First of all. We cannot remove the ability only set the values to 0. Secondly, spies can still poison garrisons just not armies. So if we were to alter this ability, which I dont believe we can, we would also remove the option to poison garrisons. The only thing we changed is the spies ability to poison armies and thats all. Besides that ability was way OP

**BMLlednar** · November 02, 2015, 01:04 AM

Isn't poisoning garrisons the city interaction though? I'm talking about the army interaction.

**FlashHeart07** · November 02, 2015, 01:27 AM

But I dont think we can mod like that. Though Dresden ofc would know for sure, it sounded like we arent able to mod it, we cant even remove it and create our own.

**BMLlednar** · November 02, 2015, 01:43 AM

The current situation just really bothers me for some reason. Also I feel like I'm explaining myself poorly. I've never been very good at communicating my thoughts. Maybe this very poorly made chart will help?

Cities : Authority : Zeal : Cunning
Dignitary : Incite Unrest : Buy Off Merchants : Cultural Propaganda
Champion : Rally Slaves : Assault Town Watch : Raid
Spy : Promote Disorder : Commit Arson : Poison Wells

Armies : Authority : Zeal : Cunning
Dignitary : Undermine Authority : Threats of Destruction : Mislead Command
Champion : Show of Force : Assault Patrol : Harass
Spy : Intercept orders : Wreck Baggage Train : Nothing

By removing Poison Provisions, the cunning spy is missing an interaction compared to every other agent / stat combo. If it was overpowered then nerf it (or is even that impossible?), but outright removing it seems like it creates more balance issues than it solves. And setting it to 0 IS removing it for all intents and purposes.

**FlashHeart07** · November 02, 2015, 03:04 AM

I think I understand what you mean

even from that poorly made chart

I think one of the reasons for removing it was the fact that you could lock entire armies down and tear them apart with this ability even nerfing it would in the end mean that a single spy could destroy entire armies and especially the AI Loved to do this which was very frustrating for players. I believe this was the reason for removing it. If someday we come up with a better alternative it will most likely be changed but for now this was seen as the best alternative

**Dresden** · November 02, 2015, 01:59 PM

Technically, you are right there isn't much of a reason to use it currently. I am going to make it so that it has a larger morale reduction than the other abilities.

Having spies be able to lock down armies and damage units has always been a major complaint and problem. They should be able to reduce movement and prevent reinforcement, but not have those other abilities. If having one of their options be a bit underwhelming is the price to pay, so be it.

**BMLlednar** · November 02, 2015, 05:27 PM

A morale hit could work too, yeah. Don't get me wrong, I fully appreciate that the old ability was massively overpowered and needed to go. I just want it to still do something compared to the other options.