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  1. #41

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    [REQUEST]

    could a member perhaps provide a workaround to restore hoplites (their animations) to how they functioned in 1.05? or would doing so completely break their new battle mechanics somehow?
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by King Kong
    Hey moonflower, just wanted to say that your descriptions are indeed the best, so I will use all of them, of course. Regards

  2. #42
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    Besides being unrealistic it would not break anything balance wise.
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  3. #43

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    I started a new normal difficulty Roma Grand Campaign to test out v1.1, and i am loving it quite a bit. You folks did a wonderful job.

    My main point of critique would be the overkill of stats on both characters and regions. I'm sure that when i have to micro-manage a large sized empire i will probably end up going into "ah it" mode and ignore the massive lists of tiny bonuses on regions/characters. I would pick 3-4 stats per region, selected from the entire list of region stats the region stats, with the unmentioned stats simply being neutral and thus not listed.

    Likewise the traits you guys added to characters are a bit overkill. A brand new character can already have a list of "commander effects" that fill my entire screen. I would pick up to 5 meaningful bonuses and penalties for the trait, rather than about 10 tiny ones.

    Sometimes, less is more.

  4. #44

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    For all the people claiming Roman units are too expensive to reasonably use. That's simply un true. I have played as Rome for 99.9% of all 1600 hours I have played DeI, and in testing with the upgraded unit costs I have never, EVER been unable to afford a historical 20 stack (50/50 socii/roman troops, composition listed in many other threads) within the first 20 turns.

    Keep in mind, the early roman units, even hastati, are equivalent to some of the best barbarian troops have available. Only Greek and Carthaginian troops are dangerous to camillan era Roman troops.


    Turn one, disband your starting units. For the first ten-twelve turns build Rome to a level 2 building, then arminium, and upgrade arminimum to a trade port. After that, upgrade the rest of your starting cities to level 2. That'll give you plenty of income to maintain a sufficient 20 stack and then some.

  5. #45

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM 2150 View Post
    Besides being unrealistic it would not break anything balance wise.

    ah well I guess we have differing views on what is and is not realistic in this case.

    so as to the workaround...? I've already discovered that one cannot simply just delete the animation fragments related to hoplites.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by King Kong
    Hey moonflower, just wanted to say that your descriptions are indeed the best, so I will use all of them, of course. Regards

  6. #46

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    Hey, loving 1.1 so far. I just have a hilariously small suggestion. The culture icon for egypt in DEI has always looked kinda sloppy next to all the others. Think you guys could replace it, permission allowing, with the one from the Ancient Empires sub mod? I extracted and imported it with the PFM in my own game, but I thought it might be nice to just make it the norm. It's much crisper and cleaner than the default. Thanks for all of your great work! 1.1 really was worth the wait.

  7. #47

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Lieutenant Sharpe View Post
    How big of a role is Rome supposed to play in the Macedonians Wars campaign? So far they seem somewhat under powered since they don't have a steady income or military training center. Or does Rome get scripted reinforcements later in the campaign? Playing as Macedon it feels as if the Aitolian league is a far bigger threat than Rome.
    Is this playing as Rome or as AI? I jumped in to a Rodos campaign and while slow to get going Rome has now forced Epirus to become a satrap after leaving them with only one region. They've also started making gains into Macedonian territory originally owned by the Aitolians.

  8. #48
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Moonflower View Post
    ah well I guess we have differing views on what is and is not realistic in this case.

    so as to the workaround...? I've already discovered that one cannot simply just delete the animation fragments related to hoplites.
    Easiest thing, but also completly taking away their ability to form phalanx would be to give them in land_units tables an animation from regular spear unit. As for actual animation edditing, I have no idea how it is done.
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  9. #49

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    So this may be strictly A.I. and thus untouchable, but I often have friendly nations that end up going all the way to hostile in a couple turns due to trespassing. Sometimes an army will just sit in the other faction's territory for multiple turns. This really screws with diplomatic plans.

    Oh, and do the new character traits have to be so negative? Could we at least see them before we recruit a character? 2,400 for a governor that reduces public order, taxes, and cultural influence isn't really my ideal pick.

    Love the mod though! It's addicting!

  10. #50

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    Hello ,
    First of all I would like to thank all the team of DeI for their amazing work and mod.

    I have a question about the attrition,when I make a siege my army is automatically affected by the attrition(green smoke like a disease not the red skull) and it continues after the capture of the city.
    Can you explain me why?
    My reserve of food are positive.

    Thank you.

  11. #51

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    I've tested elephants in custom battle and they're beasts now. One unit of indian ones killed thousand and quarter of legionaries losing only one elephant to friendly pilla. Glad you reintroduced rampaging instead of berserking as one third of their kills was friendly, so they aren't as much op. Lower ammo on missile units also buffs their usefullnes as you can put them in use farster without worring about enemy peltasts.

  12. #52

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by Troubleshooter View Post
    My main point of critique would be the overkill of stats on both characters and regions. I'm sure that when i have to micro-manage a large sized empire i will probably end up going into "ah it" mode and ignore the massive lists of tiny bonuses on regions/characters.

    Likewise the traits you guys added to characters are a bit overkill.

    Sometimes, less is more.
    Very true, I saw these massive lists of stats and couldn't be bothered to read them because there is no chance I will remember them. A small handful is enough, which grow slowly over time

  13. #53
    Argive Strategos's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    I have tested some bits of the mod, I think that the Thracian nobles are a bit too OP, they killed every Infantry unit i sent against them, Pratorians, Spartans, Logades and more. I think the Spartan Homioi should be the strongest unit in the game, I have done a lot of research on the spartans in my free time. I think that they should beat the Praetorians head on due to the phalanx, but also, due to extensive training as children, I think they should be the strongest infantry unit head on. Spartans were bred to be soldiers from very small and started from 7 years old. The Praetorian guard, although a strong force, should lose against the spartans head on, they had great training, but not the life conditions a spartan wouldve had. The Thracian nobles have a very high defence, despite having no shield, I think the defence should be lowered a bit, they shred every unit in their path. In europa barbarorum, I increased the number of spartans to equal the praetorian number and they won. It is a great mod despite this little detail. The supply system is a cool and realistic feature, I am loving the Macedonian wars. I love divide et Impera, it is a great mod, I beg you though to please fix up the stats with these units. The greatest feature in the update is definitely all the new animations, especially the phalanx and barbarian charges.

  14. #54
    Argive Strategos's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    I also noticed a bug, for some reason, the Athenian logades can beat praetorians, whereas the spartan homioi cannot.

  15. #55

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM 2150 View Post
    Easiest thing, but also completly taking away their ability to form phalanx would be to give them in land_units tables an animation from regular spear unit. As for actual animation edditing, I have no idea how it is done.
    how do you mean? as they are now, they dont have the 'ability' (button) to form the phalanx as they just are in the phalanx by default, correct? and thank you for humbly assisting me in this kam. +1
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by King Kong
    Hey moonflower, just wanted to say that your descriptions are indeed the best, so I will use all of them, of course. Regards

  16. #56

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    Pikes don't excel at any roles at the moment (worse anvils than hoplites due to breaching, awful offensively as they don't push units, can't hold ground defensively due to poor 1v1 skills) and they're not 'jack of all trades' so they're pretty useless at the moment. You guys seem pretty stubborn on not making them useful but they're my 2 cents.

  17. #57
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    The Hellene, top falx units were a bit nerfed for upcoming hotfix so this one is already done, I forgot to test how those elite falx units performed (there are only few). Simply their damage was just to high.

    As for the Spartans, their glory days are over, but they still have one of the highest stats in game. In case of late units I think the simply suffer from worse armour but their attack, charge and morale are above any other Civilized units in the game. Still, I might take a look into it.


    Moonflower, I mean by that you can give then regular spear animation but it will take away phalanx animation so they will just stand like any other spear unit (Thureophoroi for example).


    docjones1, please go watch battle preview, all is explained and no, I do not agree with anything you wrote. Regular pikes beat regular hoplites frontally. So in other words, they are more mobile then hoplites, beat them frontally and are much, much better vs cavalry.
    Last edited by KAM 2150; October 28, 2015 at 11:30 AM.
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  18. #58

    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    I noted some weird inconsistencies that may be bugs or intended but I am not 100% certain of it so Iíll post them here.
    Iíll leave a list of suggested db changes below but changing them is up to you guys.

    Some roman auxiliary archers and horse archers have inconsistent stats with respect tot their in-game model. Some have shield stats while they do not have a shield, some have different armor while they look the same. Furthermore their missile weapon is of lower quality than the normal Syrians archers.

    List:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    db-land_unit_table-aux_land_units:
    Aux_Archer_Crete: armor = arm9, shield= none
    Aux_Archer_Thrace: armor = arm9, shield= none
    Aux_Archer_Antioch: primary_missle_weapon = bow3
    Aux_Archer_Canatha: armor = arm9, shield= none, primary_missle_weapon = bow3
    Aux_Archer_Damascus: armor = arm9, shield= none, primary_missle_weapon = bow3
    Aux_Archer_Hama: primary_missle_weapon = bow3
    Aux_Archer_Hama_Imp: armor = arm9, primary_melee_weapon = dagger2, shield= none
    Aux_Archer_Petra: shield= none
    Aux_Archer_Bithynia: shield= none
    Aux_Archer_Ascalon: shield= none
    Aux_Archer_Cav_Cappadocia: shield = none, armour=carm8
    Aux_Archer_Cav_Thrace: shield = none, armour=carm8
    Aux_Archer_Cav_Parthia: shield = none, armour=carm8
    Aux_Archer_Cav_Syria:shield = none, armour=carm8

    db-land_unit_table-aor_land_units:
    AOR_21_Syrian_Heavy_Archers: armor = arm9, shield= none

    db-land_unit_table-MERC_land_units:
    MERC_Syri_Mercenary_Archers: armor = arm9, shield= none

    Some units with muscle cuirass only have 40 armor instead of 50.

    List:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    db-land_unit_table-dei_land_units:
    Car_Sacred_Band: armor= arm10
    Gre_Royal_Spartans: armor= arm10
    Gre_Heroes_Sparta: armor= arm10
    Bac_Royal_Guard: armor= arm10

    db-land_unit_table-EastNomadArab_land_units:
    Ste_Indo_Greek_Nobles: armor= arm10

    db-land_unit_table-hel_land_units:
    Bos_Epilektoi_Hoplites: armor= arm10
    Mas_Royal_Guard: armor= arm10
    Mas_Veteran_Sword: armor= arm10
    Syr_Royal_Guard: armor= arm10
    Ill_Royal_Guard: armor= arm10
    Car_Elite_Infantry: armor= arm10

    Finally some miscellaneous curiosities:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    db-land_unit_table-aux_land_units:
    Aux_Infantry_Tungri_Imp: primary_melee_weapon= spear3 %they should use spears instead of gladii
    Aux_Infantry_Thrace_Imp: armor = arm9 %their armor is higher than other similar units
    Aux_Infantry_Batavia: primary_melee_weapon = gladius4 %they should use the same sword as other auxiliaries
    Aux_Infantry_Galatia: primary_melee_weapon = gladius4 % they should use the same sword as other auxiliaries
    db-main_unit_table-Aux_main_units:
    Aux_Archer_Hama_Imp: num_men=350 % they should have double the men of standard unit
    db-main_unit_table-hel_main_units:
    Arm_Cataphracts: num_men=120 % they have less men than other eastern cav

    db-land_unit_table-105_land_units:
    ind_bodyguard: primary_missle_weapon = cbow4 %they now use longbows
    indian_war_elephants: mount=indian_elephant %they use a different elephant (with less hp)
    indian_armoured_elephants: mount=indian_armoured_elephant %they use a different elephant

    Gre_Companion_Cav has two entries: one in dei_land_units and the other in 105_land_units.

    arrow_tower and arrow_tower_upgraded has two entiries: one in DeI_projectiles and other in __raf_SIEGES_projectiles.

    The (rome_longbow) Indian longbow has the wrong flaming arrow type. Also its max range seems unbelievably high compared to other bows.

    Aux_Infantry_Tungri_Imp has no entry in Aux_building_units_allowed table.

  19. #59
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    Thanks for spotting those stuff, some were fixed and then accidentaly brought pack as for example I already deleted that Gre_Compaion_Cav entry soem time ago. Some units also got new models and textures over the course of last year so they too might be not up to date.

    As for the bronze muscule cuirass they have correct values, which is 40, steel muscule cuirass has 50.
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  20. #60
    Mark07040's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: [Feedback] Impressions, Critiques and Requests for 1.1

    i don't know if i should put this here or not but can anyone make a submod that "skips" the first phase of the roman army (forgot what it was called XD) and goes straigt to the Polybian army jk hastati principes triarii because i am not really a fan of the spear spam im forced into
    sorry if i sound mean just asking a question :p
    Last edited by Mark07040; October 28, 2015 at 04:42 PM. Reason: not properly explaimd before edit

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