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Thread: Creative Assembly Business Practice Discussion Thread (Warhammer I & II)

  1. #61

    Default Re: Change.org Petition regarding TW:Warhammer "Banned"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zipzopdippidybopbop View Post
    https://www.change.org/p/creative-as...m_medium=email

    Basically a petition to make Warhammer "complete" on release reached over 8,000 signatures yesterday; as of today the petition maker has been banned as he noted his petition on the official forum.

    Nice move CA; suppression of dissenters is a sure way to gain respect and support.

    Your thoughts?
    I actually signed that petition. It's obviously nowhere near as important as many other things on that site but I did believe in it so why not?

    If true, it's poor form by CA and shows poor community management and a certain amount of manipulation on their part. They've been accused of similar by some on the official forum, YouTube and Steam so I can believe it. Though I think they've given up on YouTube as you could spend an hour going through the comments the video got without seeing anything positive.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Change.org Petition regarding TW:Warhammer "Banned"

    How are you even surprised he gets banned for linking it on the official forums? It's like standing inside a shop and telling every person that enters it that the products are overpriced and garbage. In that case you also get thrown out the shop. If you (or the petition creator) wants to link it on any other forum or reddit or youtube it is totaly acceptable. But on the official TW forums? Don't know why you are even surprised by their reaction. To me it's logical and reasonable.

    edit/ "So I brought up the topic of my Petition almost reaching 10,000 members [...]". Yeah, it's exactly 8.086 right now. So nearly 10k...
    Some people don't get numbers as it seems.
    Last edited by Saurus; November 24, 2015 at 10:34 AM.

  3. #63
    alQamar's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Change.org Petition regarding TW:Warhammer "Banned"

    The so called "Totaliarism Total War" (forum.totalwar.com) has banned another of its members again.
    First of all moderators act based on the forum rules which state clearly that petitions are not tolerated either to discuss, promote or anything else on their forum. Then the company that holds responsibility for their service is allowed to set any rule or take actions they find useful to ensure the service and keeping forum culture civilized.

    The guy that was just banned on totalwar.com is not a single issue. Me and many other people are actually affected.

    While I am still a motivated and eager fan to the Total War franchise and quite active part of the TW community, not solely known due to my technical expertise, my uplifting passion for Total War Arena, or some successful community driven surveys I have helped in, I have no access to the official forum either and need to report issues via Facebook or other channels.

    I am not in the position to judge anyone of the moderators but I insist they should keep an eye on the amount and names they have blocked from their official forum so far over the past years. Some of them even much more recognizeable than mine.

    Let me question if they just want a "herd of sheep" visiting their forums, or a loyal but also honest community that will necessarily question things and rise and want to discuss problems - problems that may even harm the franchise long-term.


    Just my 2 cents...

    p.s. I want to make clear again that we have had several discussions about moderation issues on the offcial forums and so far I think that the moderating team on TWC did agree that discussing foreign moderator actions on this forum (TWC) is not very welcomed, most of all as this will never cause a change. Rules are rules, no matter if we cheer them or not.
    Last edited by alQamar; November 24, 2015 at 11:28 AM.
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  4. #64
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    The moderation policy of the official forums is perfectly reasonable. The reason for their existence is to be a platform from where CA should develop her marketing strategies, not a place of debate for brainstorming or criticizing. That is why the ranting threads are moved from the general discussions, not because CA doesn't want to "face the truth", but because the only information accessible to members and most importantly for guests (due to their much larger number) should essentially be praising of their products and encouraging to buy them. Official forums are ideal for a heads-up, not for a discussion over the merits of the games.

  5. #65
    alQamar's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    The moderation policy of the official forums is perfectly reasonable. The reason for their existence is to be a platform from where CA should develop her marketing strategies, not a place of debate for brainstorming or criticizing. That is why the ranting threads are moved from the general discussions, not because CA doesn't want to "face the truth", but because the only information accessible to members and most importantly for guests (due to their much larger number) should essentially be praising of their products and encouraging to buy them. Official forums are ideal for a heads-up, not for a discussion over the merits of the games.
    That's a point of view, but I agree it is more a marketing platform than a classical point where people can discuss - like a forum should be.
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  6. #66

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alQamar View Post
    That's a point of view, but I agree it is more a marketing platform than a classical point where people can discuss - like a forum should be.
    Well, you said it yourself:

    Let me question if they just want a "herd of sheep" visiting their forums, or a loyal but also honest community that will necessarily question things and rise and want to discuss problems - problems that may even harm the franchise long-term.
    Herd of sheep would be the preference for a marketing platform. I think that forum is only good for questions and certain announcements (like their response to the DLC outrage). Actual discussion is carefully controlled which, on reflection, is their right I suppose. But it makes that forum a lesser one to this if you actually want to discuss things.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    CA is still actively growing and this position seems to be new and I think it could make a change if they find out that this currently time limited engagement would deal out:
    http://www.creative-assembly.com/job...eedback-intern
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  8. #68

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by alQamar View Post
    CA is still actively growing and this position seems to be new and I think it could make a change if they find out that this currently time limited engagement would deal out:
    http://www.creative-assembly.com/job...eedback-intern
    The amount of criticism that poor intern will have to shift through. I can imagine him being like Butters in that episode of South Park.

  9. #69

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Choose the business model you want to support. Vote with your wallet. Simple as that folks.

    CA now operates on a business model based on superb marketing, strong graphics, unpolished and buggy content, less depth, paywalls and dlc ad nauseum. Being a business is not an excuse or justification for anything. There are plenty of game companies that operate different business models. Blizzard RTS, Bethesda, CDPR are examples of companies whose business models are based on high quality base content, strong community ties, modifications, and expansion-style DLC.

    I support the latter so I invest a lot of my spending money in those companies. I loathe the former so I don't spend any money on them. The only language any company understands is money. If enough people walk away from CA that there is a comparative advantage to switching to an alternative business model they will. If not, they will keep on with their current business practices. I cannot blame them for that. They are a private company and should do what they think is best for them. But I sure as hell don't need to give them any of my money.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shlazaor View Post
    superb marketing


    Wouldn't call a marketing strategy which consistently manages to deeply piss off even the most hardcore of fans to the point that some are advocating for boikoting their products "superb".

    CA operates in a business model in which they know they have almost a monopoly. There is yet no way to get this kind of experience anywhere else in gaming, so even the customers who are completelly pissed will eventually either get the game or resign themselves to playing shooters.

  11. #71

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    That makes me laugh all these baby's shouts. If you don't want to pay to have the Chaos at the start of the game, don't pay that's all. I think it's normal to have some bonus for the reservation of the game, if you'are not agree with this don't pay and don't play. The petition is very ridiculous and I hope it will not work, the game seems very good with a lots of new things so stop denigrating it and waste your time on other games, thanks.

    In deed less players at the start of the game is better for my speed of download on Steam.

    I agree to pay more to have more contents and I hope Sega will make a lot of DLC to have all the races and the different Lords.

  12. #72

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HigoChumbo View Post


    Wouldn't call a marketing strategy which consistently manages to deeply piss off even the most hardcore of fans to the point that some are advocating for boikoting their products "superb".

    CA operates in a business model in which they know they have almost a monopoly. There is yet no way to get this kind of experience anywhere else in gaming, so even the customers who are completelly pissed will eventually either get the game or resign themselves to playing shooters.
    The marketing for Rome II was pretty damn good in my opinion.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shlazaor View Post
    The marketing for Rome II was pretty damn good in my opinion.
    Maybe for the short term, I guess.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HigoChumbo View Post


    Wouldn't call a marketing strategy which consistently manages to deeply piss off even the most hardcore of fans to the point that some are advocating for boikoting their products "superb".

    CA operates in a business model in which they know they have almost a monopoly. There is yet no way to get this kind of experience anywhere else in gaming, so even the customers who are completelly pissed will eventually either get the game or resign themselves to playing shooters.

    They do not care about us. Their market is the dumbed down streamlined gamers, that ic clear based off their last few releases.

  15. #75

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    We are mere months from release and still people sheepishly ignore the issue of this Chaos on both the official forums and on reddit.

    I just can't believe people. How many times are they going to allow CA to screw them before they realize what's up? How long will they remain loyal to a company that doesn't give a about their customers.

    I stood by CA even after the abysmal launch of Rome II and their lack of support for Attila, but this Chaos DLC crap was the final straw. It showed me that they are an objectively awful and untrustworthy company that truly doesn't care about their consumers.

    I will not be buying another Total War game, and TW: Warhammer can shove it. Warhammer is dead. GW killed tabeltop and now CA is pissing on the grave.

  16. #76

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor Soviet View Post
    We are mere months from release and still people sheepishly ignore the issue of this Chaos on both the official forums and on reddit.

    I just can't believe people. How many times are they going to allow CA to screw them before they realize what's up? How long will they remain loyal to a company that doesn't give a about their customers.

    I stood by CA even after the abysmal launch of Rome II and their lack of support for Attila, but this Chaos DLC crap was the final straw. It showed me that they are an objectively awful and untrustworthy company that truly doesn't care about their consumers.

    I will not be buying another Total War game, and TW: Warhammer can shove it. Warhammer is dead. GW killed tabeltop and now CA is pissing on the grave.
    I don't think that these DLC politics are going out from CA, and they are definitely not the plan of the core CA, the developers etc.. This marketing strategy is a part of Sega and maybe a part of some managers by CA, but both are not CA, both are not the people who develope these games, they are only these who are grabbing the most of the money, which you have payed. And it seems that the Total War games are selling bad, so Sega wants more money produced by CA, TW Warhammer was developed 4 years, I heared, and maybe Sega planned only 3. Attilla TW was also not that good-selling how sega wished, same thing for Alien: Isolation, where Sega gave CA a very big budget to develope, like Rome II, but TW games are not that popular like Call of Duty. We can only speculate about that, we don't know if Sega wants only more profit or that they need DLCs to make it profitable, but there is only two options for CA: They can release a game to a mostly fair Price with DLCs, so you can at least play the main game or they release no DLCs, but a very expensive game, so not everyone will play the game. I would prefer the first option.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Change.org Petition regarding TW:Warhammer "Banned"

    Quote Originally Posted by Zipzopdippidybopbop View Post
    https://www.change.org/p/creative-as...m_medium=email

    Basically a petition to make Warhammer "complete" on release reached over 8,000 signatures yesterday; as of today the petition maker has been banned as he noted his petition on the official forum.

    Nice move CA; suppression of dissenters is a sure way to gain respect and support.

    Your thoughts?
    This is exactly the reason why I left the official CA forums about eight years ago. A group of us regular posters on that forum were so pissed off at the draconian, petty and unfair moderator behaviour at that forum that we broke away and made our own forum. It was quite successful around 2007, maybe some of the older members here will know it. It was called The Defenestrated Forums. We had quite a large community of former Total War Forums members, and all of us basically migrated all of our posting activity to the new forum. As far as we were concerned, CA and the official forums could go themselves. We were fed up and completely alienated by their total behaviour.

    Anyway I completely agree with your sentiment, Zipzop. By shutting down discussion and stonewalling, ignoring and persecuting anyone who says anything they dislike, it's just going to piss people off even more and generate ten times as much anger and rage than if they would just grow some balls and actually treat the customer with respect. It's no wonder everybody is massively pissed off and hates them so much. They've brought this on themselves by turning against the community.

    I have consistently seen this kind of idiotic, , attitude from CA and I am really fed up with it. The person responsible for community relations obviously has a real attitude problem and I would dearly like to see that person fall. I want to see those responsible punished severely for this. I want justice. And then I want to stomp on their face and see how they like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by HigoChumbo View Post
    Wouldn't call a marketing strategy which consistently manages to deeply piss off even the most hardcore of fans to the point that some are advocating for boikoting their products "superb".
    Amen to that. Exactly right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shlazaor View Post
    CA now operates on a business model based on superb marketing, strong graphics, unpolished and buggy content, less depth, paywalls and dlc ad nauseum.
    Yes. That has been true ever since Medieval 2 Total War (2006), in my opinion. This was the first time a vanilla release was deeply disappointing and clearly unfinished. The game was clearly inferior compared to Medieval TW (2002). It was broken and buggy at release and was not fit to play. Many of the factions had been gimped to , especially the Byzantines and the Moors which were treated much worse than they had been in MTW four years earlier. Mods eventually rescued M2TW and made it into my all time favourite Total War game, but without mods it would have been a total failure. I stopped playing it after two weeks, utterly pissed off and disgusted at the state of the vanilla game. This is when the rot set in.

    That said, I do like Attila and I think in many ways it is the best Total War game they have ever made. If only the music were not so weak and lacklustre, the atmosphere and immersion could be excellent. They also need to bring back the detailed historical descriptions on units and buildings, and get rid of that awful TW encyclopaedia, which is too slow and which is inconvenient to use - the old M2TW system of having the writing directly accessible on the unit or building selected was much better.
    Last edited by bigdaddy1204; January 19, 2016 at 01:35 PM.

  18. #78

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Marschall de la Cuesta View Post
    I don't think that these DLC politics are going out from CA, and they are definitely not the plan of the core CA, the developers etc.. This marketing strategy is a part of Sega and maybe a part of some managers by CA, but both are not CA, both are not the people who develope these games, they are only these who are grabbing the most of the money, which you have payed. And it seems that the Total War games are selling bad, so Sega wants more money produced by CA, TW Warhammer was developed 4 years, I heared, and maybe Sega planned only 3. Attilla TW was also not that good-selling how sega wished, same thing for Alien: Isolation, where Sega gave CA a very big budget to develope, like Rome II, but TW games are not that popular like Call of Duty. We can only speculate about that, we don't know if Sega wants only more profit or that they need DLCs to make it profitable, but there is only two options for CA: They can release a game to a mostly fair Price with DLCs, so you can at least play the main game or they release no DLCs, but a very expensive game, so not everyone will play the game. I would prefer the first option.
    Blaming it all on SEGA is pretty naive.

    I do agree that the development staff is not acocuntable. They have virtually no control over the game, which is a damn shame considering they are the ones who put in the effort of actually making it, but are ultimately treated as subordinates by the administrators and shareholders. The game's industry is horribly slanted against the actual devs.

    I know they aren't to blame because nobody sits down and says "I'm going to dedicate 2 years of my life making this game, so lets make it on release and divide all that work up into garbage DLC". Devs are usually more in tune with gamers.

    Unfortunately, it is abundantly clear that the actual developers at CA are at the mercy of their administration, who repeatedly makes them do this kind of without justification.

    The whole market is unfortunately like this. It's sad that developers essentially forfeit their rights to the product they made. ​However, these decisions are being carried out by somebody at CA, but likely somebody who doesn't actually work on the game.

  19. #79
    alQamar's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    the petition imho isn't a rage of a disappointed customers minority. We see more than 12.000 signers and still (slowly) growing.
    On my very extensive friendlist, that contain a lot of, if not mostly TW fans, and some remarkable names included from the TW scene only 2 people have so far preordered TW Warhammer including the Preorder DLC, whilst one of them is a CA employee itself, who somehow wasn't able to resist

    If this isn't a clar sign - so few months before release, I simply don't know how to apologize that. Rome 2 had seen definitely more anticipation.

    I am not even sure if I am going to buy Warhammer at all, I just bought Attila to keep up some tech threads with updates, hence I never really played this game.
    16 hours accounted solely on testing and benchmarking, this is a lot less I was willing to spend for the same goal in Rome 2 - at least I was able to enjoy one full campaign with great TWC mods.


    Well I don't want to judge about Warhammer, not at all as I don't have any relation to this world and fantasy scheme. The only thing that is interesting to me in regard to TW is: how the game develops further from the technical perspective and how it does evolve in terms of gameplay, complexity and not least modability.

    I was very happy to see someone started a LoTR mod for Rome 2, however the campaign map limitation seems to be odd, so if Warhammer or the next historical based Total War will not bring changes back to the roots - like Medieval 2 - I really don't know if I am just getting too old for this game and franchise and leave it alone for the younger, that even may not have touched any of the TW classics seriously.
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  20. #80
    Huberto's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Change.org Petition regarding TW:Warhammer "Banned"

    Looks like half of the hiring going on at CA these days is for Halo Wars 2. If TW Warhammer is more of the same Warscape/32 bit, then Halo Wars is....the future.
    http://www.creative-assembly.com/jobs/halowars
    Last edited by Huberto; January 21, 2016 at 08:24 AM.

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