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Thread: Creative Assembly Business Practice Discussion Thread (Warhammer I & II)

  1. #21
    Ygraine's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody0 View Post
    My addition is how they moderate their forums. It has really made me doubt CA even more.

    I have never been given warnings, banned, had a thread locked/moved or have had any post deleted on any forum until I posted this:

    I was expecting Chaos to play a similar role as the Mongols in Medieval 2 then be added as a playable faction in the next release.

    Cutting such a major faction and making it available only to people who pre-order or buy the DLC after release seems wrong to me.

    I am not 100% sure how it works but if they are in the game but unplayable is it not just some lines of code that need to be changed?

    It got moved to rant and raves. Which as a customer I found rather insulting.

    I also noticed no matter how polite, well written, thoughtful a post was in there announcement thread about the release and Chaos thread that did not say something completely positive it did not remain there long.

    As a customer the impression I get is they really do not care what I have to say.

    I also made a thread basically saying what I said in the sentence above that I totally expected mods to jump on. Which they did. One mod moved it, another came along deleted the post that agreed with me, left the ones not agreeing or hostile to me and then locked it.

    The mod sent me a warning and suggested I was slandering them.

    The whole experience has soured my feelings regarding CA.
    I gave up on that forum completely. There's no point being there if you don't completely agree with how things are being run, because any critic will be brushed off and deleted/moved/locked by the staff. I'm all for mature and respectful discussions on how to improve something, but apparently that counts as disrespecting their ToS.

    All in all I suspect that if the stockholders at SEGA will be affected by lowered revenue compared to their predicted margin income analysis that they usually do at companies like that - they might start asking questions which in turn maybe will make SEGA re-evaluate certain business practices for CA.
    Sadly this is only possible if they experience a modest loss of revenue.
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  2. #22
    HigoChumbo's Avatar Definitely not Jom.
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody0 View Post
    My addition is how they moderate their forums. It has really made me doubt CA even more. I have never been given warnings, banned, had a thread locked/moved or have had any post deleted on any forum until I posted this:

    I was expecting Chaos to play a similar role as the Mongols in Medieval 2 then be added as a playable faction in the next release.

    Cutting such a major faction and making it available only to people who pre-order or buy the DLC after release seems wrong to me.

    I am not 100% sure how it works but if they are in the game but unplayable is it not just some lines of code that need to be changed?
    It got moved to rant and raves. Which as a customer I found rather insulting.

    I also noticed no matter how polite, well written, thoughtful a post was in there announcement thread about the release and Chaos thread that did not say something completely positive it did not remain there long. As a customer the impression I get is they really do not care what I have to say.

    I also made a thread basically saying what I said in the sentence above that I totally expected mods to jump on. Which they did. One mod moved it, another came along deleted the post that agreed with me, left the ones not agreeing or hostile to me and then locked it. The mod sent me a warning and suggested I was slandering them.

    The whole experience has soured my feelings regarding CA.

    This constant attitude is pretty much the reason why I left the official forums ten years ago and moved here. I mean, your quote is way more polite than half the stuff we are used to read here (and still allow if it's within reasonable limits). They envision their forums not so much as a discussion community but more as a store display to advertise their products and keep people hyped.


    It got moved to rant and raves. Which as a customer I found rather insulting.
    Not only that (since what you said is hardly a rant), their intention there is no other than just burying the comment in a forum with little visibility which almost no one ever reads (right now they have 35 people in the Warhammer forum and 2 in Rants&Raves), considerately placed in the same section as The Graveyard. And of course, don't expect CA staff to ever comment there.


    It really gives the impression that they only value fans as far as they keep posting stuff in the lines of:

    Last edited by HigoChumbo; October 25, 2015 at 09:52 PM.

  3. #23

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HigoChumbo View Post
    This constant attitude is pretty much the reason why I left the official forums ten years ago and moved here. I mean, your quote is way more polite than half the stuff we are used to read here (and still allow if it's within reasonable limits). They envision their forums not so much as a discussion community but more as a store display to advertise their products and keep people hyped.

    Not only that (since what you said is hardly a rant), their intention there is no other than just burying the comment in a forum with little visibility which almost no one ever reads (right now they have 35 people in the Warhammer forum and 2 in Rants&Raves), considerately placed in the same section as The Graveyard. And of course, don't expect CA staff to ever comment there.


    It really gives the impression that they only value fans as far as they keep posting stuff in the lines of:

    As a matter of fact they are systematically deleting bad rating posts on the official forums. They even threatened me with "law action" for I eventually compared their current business practices to "blackmailing". Really guys? You can't sue people because they are voicing what your behaviour is inspiring them, just deal with it.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Manu La Canette View Post
    As a matter of fact they are systematically deleting bad rating posts on the official forums. They even threatened me with "law action" for I eventually compared their current business practices to "blackmailing". Really guys? You can't sue people because they are voicing what your behaviour is inspiring them, just deal with it.
    Are you ing serious? That is their attitude to legitimate concerns and un-offensive/reasoned argument? Who the do they think they are?

    Apologies for the language, but I despise that attitude with a passion.

    PS - Wonder how long it would be before they threatened me with "court action" for posting this tirade =P
    Last edited by Ybbon; November 02, 2015 at 03:20 PM. Reason: removed unnecessary comments

  5. #25

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Miles Invictus View Post
    Are you ing serious? That is their attitude to legitimate concerns and un-offensive/reasoned argument? Who the do they think they are?

    Apologies for the language, but I despise that attitude with a passion. CA are the utter bastards of the gaming community!

    PS - Wonder how long it would be before they threatened me with "court action" for posting this tirade =P
    Well this was on the official forums, I guess they want to keep the thing totally clean, they called it -- I'm quoting -- "CA/SEGA bashing", which is strictly forbidden. Now I hardly would call that "bashing" because I bought every single of their games since RTW, I was just thinking maybe I was entitled to a little criticism about something that pisses off virtually everybody. There's a point you gotta call a cat a cat. Period. And even then, that makes me wonder what is a one-way to speak forum's purpose? That's why the official forums are basically dead minus a couple absolute fanboys with pathetic servile attitude. Anyway, I'm done with this, I'll wait for more information from now on, that way I can make a better opinion if this game developpment is still worthy of any attention or not.

  6. #26

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Manu La Canette View Post
    Well this was on the official forums, I guess they want to keep the thing totally clean, they called it -- I'm quoting -- "CA/SEGA bashing", which is strictly forbidden. Now I hardly would call that "bashing" because I bought every single of their games since RTW, I was just thinking maybe I was entitled to a little criticism about something that pisses off virtually everybody. There's a point you gotta call a cat a cat. Period. And even then, that makes me wonder what is a one-way to speak forum's purpose? That's why the official forums are basically dead minus a couple absolute fanboys with pathetic servile attitude. Anyway, I'm done with this, I'll wait for more information from now on, that way I can make a better opinion if this game developpment is still worthy of any attention or not.
    Yeah, I got banned there 10 eyars ago when they tried to take down TWC. They've always been a little hostile at least to the community. If anything it has got markedly better over the past few years, however on the official forums mods are very strict and don't care if topics can bleed over from topic to topic.

  7. #27

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    You know, I think Sega's financial struggles play a role in this, which is probably why CA keeps cranking out DLC's for each total war game. Mommy is going broke and is desperate for cash, what better way than to exploit your gifted child for a quick and easy buck.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    I'm big Fan of Chaos and have Hardware army minatures of Chaos. So you think I should be happy, but I'm not. CA tell me they want make the 4 factions perfekt and not have time to add command team, but for DLC on realease date they found time. Ohhh wonder....
    CA should be honest with us. With command team they do not earn money, but with realease on fist Day of course. This is the only reason they don't have flagbearer in. DLCs need also time....
    Edictum mod adds new edicts to Rome II. http://www.twcenter.net / YouTube: Edictum Mod / Click here for Edictum Mod on steam
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  10. #30
    SleepySteve's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    I have had enough of pathetic marketing practices. I will continue to hold off buying new products till they are at a minimum 50% off. Sincerely one pissed off ex fan.
    Last edited by Radzeer; October 28, 2015 at 07:55 AM. Reason: insults removed (again)

  11. #31

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Woody0 View Post
    My addition is how they moderate their forums. It has really made me doubt CA even more.

    I have never been given warnings, banned, had a thread locked/moved or have had any post deleted on any forum until I posted this:



    It got moved to rant and raves. Which as a customer I found rather insulting.

    I also noticed no matter how polite, well written, thoughtful a post was in there announcement thread about the release and Chaos thread that did not say something completely positive it did not remain there long.

    As a customer the impression I get is they really do not care what I have to say.

    I also made a thread basically saying what I said in the sentence above that I totally expected mods to jump on. Which they did. One mod moved it, another came along deleted the post that agreed with me, left the ones not agreeing or hostile to me and then locked it.

    The mod sent me a warning and suggested I was slandering them.

    The whole experience has soured my feelings regarding CA.

    After reading your post, I had a look at the CA total war rants and raves section, I have never seen such a fanatical defence of what are blatantly shady business practices. Reading some of the threads is like looking at a psychological case study!

  12. #32
    Zephyrus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Because we really needed another reason to hate CA. That company simply enjoys digging itself into holes...
    SEMPER FIDELIS Remember Constantinople Κωνσταντινούπολη


  13. #33

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...-need-more-DLC
    this is one of the most pathetic fanboy threads i have ever seen on the total war forum. It seems being positive about ca buisness pratice is allowed on the offical total war forum, but saying anything negative about this garbage gets deleted or moved

  14. #34

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nosuchname View Post
    http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...-need-more-DLC
    this is one of the most pathetic fanboy threads i have ever seen on the total war forum. It seems being positive about ca buisness pratice is allowed on the offical total war forum, but saying anything negative about this garbage gets deleted or moved
    I posted this in another thread. I want to think it was meant to be sarcastic but I am not so sure.

    Just to mention there seems to be two places where people think the DLC is great. Their official forums and reddit. Only exceptions for reddit is if it is posted somewhere CA/SEGA can not delete it.

    Really brings up the question is it ethical to delete customer comments regarding business/marketing tactics in an attempt to protect sales?

  15. #35

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    i made a sarcistic one just to make fun of these fanboys, but unfortantly it got moved to rants and raves
    http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...58#post1447258

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillam I View Post
    How Skyrim / Mass Effect is how DLC should be.

    You get loads of free stuff, the big stuff you pay for. But these things are worth the money
    Exactly. A new campaign or map would be fine as DLC. The major evil faction is not. I keep thinking it's like a LotR game offering Mordor as DLC. DLC should be cosmetic stuff or things that are almost separate from the main game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zipzopdippidybopbop View Post
    Ahh, this thread again.

    Well it's basically the same as last time; CA have become one of the most dubious gaming companies in the land with their pre-release pay-walls/cut content DLC. What's more shocking is the clear abhorrence to these practices among the gaming community, seen with the downvotes on Youtube, Steam and Facebook; yet they persist.

    I wonder what they're thinking.
    I heard about the case of Deus Ex but are there any other cases of a company doing similar things and it biting them in the back side?
    Last edited by HigoChumbo; November 01, 2015 at 05:50 PM. Reason: merged consecutive posts.

  17. #37
    Zipzopdippidybopbop's Avatar Barred from the Local
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stark_7 View Post
    I heard about the case of Deus Ex but are there any other cases of a company doing similar things and it biting them in the back side?
    Evolve had a similar plan I believe.

  18. #38
    Ygraine's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidtheDuke View Post
    Yeah, I got banned there 10 eyars ago when they tried to take down TWC. They've always been a little hostile at least to the community. If anything it has got markedly better over the past few years, however on the official forums mods are very strict and don't care if topics can bleed over from topic to topic.
    Where can I read more about this? Never heard of it and I can't find any info myself. Would you mind PM:ing a link or something? Thank you.
    (2nd position - Gameplay Mods-category - 2016 Modding Awards.)

  19. #39

    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ygraine View Post
    Where can I read more about this? Never heard of it and I can't find any info myself. Would you mind PM:ing a link or something? Thank you.
    Its been a long time, the domain here used to be totalwarcenter.com I believe, and CA used that angle as a way of saying TWC was breaching copyright. The domain had to be moved, and it was obviously a hostile move by someone over at CA. It was over some tiff about either Rome 1 or Medieval 2. Greeneyeddevil should remember more details, as I'm sure he had to do the domain moving himself.

    Anyway though, Rome 1 had lots of bugs bla bla and every time the community simply OUTRAGED! that they could do something. They do it everytime in varying degrees.

  20. #40
    Modestus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: CA business practice discussion thread

    People may find this an interesting, Fredrik Wester of Paradox.

    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1020872...The-Importance

    Note also that Paradox have on principle decided that no game will now be released in a state that is unfinished they will in fact delay that game instead until they are happy with its condition.

    Regards CA and again I must repeat myself......

    CA invested long term in the Warscape engine, it was intended to produce a number of games far into the future and while over the years it has been improved its ultimate goal was to allow CA to create a Total War world that would have higher production values but at the same time keep costs under control.

    OfficiallyDevin has suggested that having higher production values means you end up with less content which may be true in some cases but I would argue that Warscape was actually intended to counteract that phenomenon, the buyer would have higher production values but also have a familiar Total War with a reasonable amount of content at a relatively competitive price.

    Warscape was intended to automate the process of making a Total War game, a tool that would make life easier however I would argue that it had another perhaps unintentional effect and it turned the process of creating a Total War game into a production line and as I have said before production lines tend to be less adaptable, they are certainly an advantage if you wish to keep churning out basically the same thing but can put you at a serious disadvantage if you wish to do something more complicated.

    Perhaps more serious is that the design can become subservient to the requirements of the production line and more consideration is given to keeping the production line moving rather then retooling even if it would be wise to do so.

    Your now into the realm of workarounds and unsatisfactory fixes of course each iteration of the game is slightly better but you have now become as OfficiallyDevin put it a software company or as I prefer a production line and a sameness begins to permeate all of your games.

    People will of course argue that Warhammer must be different because of the variation among the different races but that is not necessary the case, models and animations are one thing game play is something else.

    And don’t be fooled by the Steam refund because all CA need to achieve with Warhammer is a level of mediocrity that makes people not want to lose their pre-order DLC which is of course why you have it in the first place.

    Perhaps CA have been struggling to get to a place where everything works and Warhammer will blow us away which will then mean that MTW3 could be amazing we will see.

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