Chaos Warriors Race IS pre-order DLC

[Radzeer]

I am closing this for the moment. Stay tuned.

Ok, thread reopened. A bunch of posts were deleted for various reasons. Two things to keep in mind:

1. Posts with huge letters etc. do fall under the hard to read rule. Imagine someone reading it on a phone. Feel free to make the same argument in normal font size.

2. If you have questions about moderation, please use the moderation commentary thread:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...mentary-Thread

The reason why we don't allow this in regular threads is that such discussion tends to create a bunch of off topic references and emotions etc. Your questions will be answered in the modcomm thread.

Enjoy the discussion, gents. Within the ToS, that is.

[Zipzopdippidybopbop]

I'm not even interested in modern TW games (the TW engine is a shambles); but I'll put in my two words here. Please don't flame me; I've seen how hostile you lads are on this already.

This addition of Chaos as DLC (not Free-LC, as you need to pre-order the game beforehand to get it) just screams "shameless marketing strategem" to me - get the faction everyone wants and put the diehard Warhammer fans to ransom, who of course would pay for the opportunity to play as them. Not to mention offering a hidden faction as "suddenly available" to get pre-orders up before reviews are out (in other words a bad sign). Moreover, since the game isn't even released yet why are they slapping it on as DLC and not as core content? They can't pull the "oh it takes time to make a new faction" trick they used with Rome II!

As for the game itself; I hear they're cutting even more content from the actual game, or "streamlining" it as they would say (i.e. no dismount, no naval battles, no officers etc.). I originally believed this was to simplify the experience for the mainstream fans that CA wanted to encourage into this game; now though, I am more inclined to view several of these cut corners as attempts at masking the horrific bugs encountered in the engine (i.e. remember Empire/Napoleon and region exchange, removal of supply in R2TW - same principle for dismounting in Warhammer, particularly with such extravagant "mounts").

To conclude; I'm not overly surprised. CA are upto their dirty tricks as usual.

[The Despondent Mind]

Wait there is no dismount? That's it this game.

[Chris P. Bacon]

Wait there is no dismount? That's it this game.

I wish their was but it kind of makes sense seeing how demigryph knights for example you would never want them mounted when you can just dismount them and you get both the monster and the man.

[ScipioGermanicus]

during battle.

[D@gget]

So if you preorder the game you get 5 playable races instead of just the 4 that we were told would be playable when the game was announced?

Does this fall into the territory of the "why sell something extra when you can just give it away for free?" that DLC on Total War often gets?

[MissRarity]

Well, well, well.

Pree-order DLC. And i knew it from day ing one.

Well, thats this game done. I aint touching it, not with a 6-foot pole.

Sega, go to hell and take your cheap suit with you.

[Ichon]

Not sure I should have taken the 30 minutes to read the entire thread so far but... can't quite figure out the argument of people who were fine with starting with only 4 races in the base game and assuming would have to pay for Chaos as a later expansion/DLC (since it was obvious Chaos would be coming) yet now get Chaos both earlier and at a cheaper price?

I can actually see someone at CA thinking it was a customer bonus to give such a major race as pre-order DLC rather than a minor faction like Kislev instead of charging $15 for Chaos Warriors later.

On the other hands this was obviously planned far in advance and is the exact part of DLC practices that make people angry- having content prepared ahead of time and included in the game locked behind a paywall.

Overall I still wouldn't be that upset so long as the base game price is around $60 or less... however seen places where it is advertised as $75 USD- not a collector's edition price. Considering GW's involvement and reputation as well as Sega being involved and Rome II's rushed release I can't say I'm overly excited about all that and really I had been considering buying it the first month of release based on reviews/feedback from the community I think I will probably wait a good deal longer unless I get it included with a new GPU that I plan to be buying right around the same time as the release date...

[Person012345]

Not sure I should have taken the 30 minutes to read the entire thread so far but... can't quite figure out the argument of people who were fine with starting with only 4 races in the base game and assuming would have to pay for Chaos as a later expansion/DLC (since it was obvious Chaos would be coming) yet now get Chaos both earlier and at a cheaper price?

I can actually see someone at CA thinking it was a customer bonus to give such a major race as pre-order DLC rather than a minor faction like Kislev instead of charging $15 for Chaos Warriors later.

On the other hands this was obviously planned far in advance and is the exact part of DLC practices that make people angry- having content prepared ahead of time and included in the game locked behind a paywall.

Overall I still wouldn't be that upset so long as the base game price is around $60 or less... however seen places where it is advertised as $75 USD- not a collector's edition price. Considering GW's involvement and reputation as well as Sega being involved and Rome II's rushed release I can't say I'm overly excited about all that and really I had been considering buying it the first month of release based on reviews/feedback from the community I think I will probably wait a good deal longer unless I get it included with a new GPU that I plan to be buying right around the same time as the release date...

Here is my issue: DLC should be a pick and mix selection, so factions that aren't necessarily going to be wanted by the vast majority of the player base, or at least the lesser ones. It should not be the factions that EVERYONE will want, those should be reserved for the mainline, £50 games. Even aside from my personal view that that is how bit-DLC (rather than major expansions) should be handled, what do you think they're going to do if they start splitting off the major factions into DLC? It will mean they mix major and minor factions together in the main games with maybe one or two ones that most people will want with a couple that much fewer people will want, then they'll have a number of the must-have popular factions on the side as DLC. This will force MORE people to buy those DLCs + the main game because of the way they structure the DLCs rather than because people actually want all the factions they're buying.

[HigoChumbo]

Here is my issue: DLC should be a pick and mix selection, so factions that aren't necessarily going to be wanted by the vast majority of the player base, or at least the lesser ones. It should not be the factions that EVERYONE will want, those should be reserved for the mainline, £50 games. Even aside from my personal view that that is how bit-DLC (rather than major expansions) should be handled, what do you think they're going to do if they start splitting off the major factions into DLC? It will mean they mix major and minor factions together in the main games with maybe one or two ones that most people will want with a couple that much fewer people will want, then they'll have a number of the must-have popular factions on the side as DLC. This will force MORE people to buy those DLCs + the main game because of the way they structure the DLCs rather than because people actually want all the factions they're buying.

I don't even have an issue with factions in dlcs. Just imagine if they released the game with just orcs and the empire at a lower price point, and then released all other major factions as dlcs. That would actually be beneficial for the customers (since you would be paying just for the factions you want to play). After all, factions take time and effort to make and that's a part of the final product's price, it's not like charging for fully-fledged factions is a steal.

My issue is that they use a major, highly requested part of the game they know a lot of people are going to want as a lure for pre-orders, in a really dishonest way of avoiding the income loss of negative post-release feedback (aka bad reviews). Dishonest because it hints at a mediocre product that they are trying to force-feed their fans. They would not be so scared of reviews if the game was in good shape. Really, I don't even have a problem with the pricing, I just happily paid 30€ for a fancy pizza in a fancy restaurant when they usually cost around 10€ here and it was worth it. I know games don't grow on trees. My problem is with their attitude towards their customers, which is far from ideal.



Not to mention that I recall some CA official statement declaring that would not cut off content from their games to be sold separately (sorry, can't find it). Well, announcing and showing an entire day one dlc faction 6 months before release is a pretty straight confirmation that content is being cut off to be sold separately. And really, I would not even have such an issue with cut off content (as far as it was fairly priced) if it wasn't for their constant dishonest approach to the community.

[Person012345]

I don't even have an issue with factions in dlcs. Just imagine if they released the game with just orcs and the empire at a lower price point, and then released all other major factions as dlcs. That would actually be beneficial for the customers (since you would be paying just for the factions you want to play). After all, factions take time and effort to make and that's a part of the final product's price, it's not like charging for fully-fledged factions is a steal.

My issue is that they use a major, highly requested part of the game they know a lot of people are going to want as a lure for pre-orders, in a really dishonest way of avoiding the income loss of negative post-release feedback (aka bad reviews), and that, in my book, is being dishonest. Dishonest because it hints at a mediocre product that they are trying to force-feed to their fans. They would not be so scared of reviews if the game was in good shape. Really, I don't even have a problem with the pricing, I just happily paid 30€ for a fancy pizza in a fancy restaurant when they usually cost around 10€ here and it was worth it. I know games don't grow on trees. My problem is with their attitude towards their customers, which is far from ideal.



Not to mention that I recall some CA official statement declaring that their games would not cut off content to be sold separately (can't remember where it was). Well, announcing and showing an entire day one dlc faction 6 months before release is a pretty huge confirmation that content is being cut off to be sold separately.

Well, I wouldn't have an issue if pretty much all factions were DLC if they charged appropriately for it. I am working on the assumption that each game of the trilogy will have 4 or 5 races included. Call me cynical but I believe what they're doing is designed to squeeze as much money out of the player as possible by the way they mix factions and which ones they keep aside as individual DLC. I would love to be wrong.

[Cpt. Cortes]

I dont have a problem with faction DLC, but cut a faction, THE FACTION, of Warhammer as DLC, , the centre of their own cinematic trailer... Bravo CA/SEGA. Warhamemr has a big amount of stuff for DLC, like deamons, flying beast, AOR units, minor factions, dont need to go into the lore or books, just go to games-workshop.com, you have DLC ideas for years. But no, you're cutting the most important faction, along with Empire, for a DLC, not even a big one, 6 months before game released.

Im can see the future: Warhammer 2 Total War, a game about Elves civil war, day 1 DLC, High Elves!

If you see the other Warhammer (Fantasy or 40k) is easy to see that this practise is from CA and not GW, so, the game is going to be just like Rome 2?

[Costin_Razvan]

Why are people pissed off?

This is CHAOS in Storm of Chaos, you know the entire period the game is set in?

It's like having Attila Total War without the Huns or Rome without ROME. Archaon's crusade is the main damned story thread in this entire period of Warhammer Fantasy.

[ScipioGermanicus]

Why are people pissed off?

This is CHAOS in Storm of Chaos, you know the entire period the game is set in?

It's like having Attila Total War without the Huns or Rome without ROME. Archaon's crusade is the main damned story thread in this entire period of Warhammer Fantasy.

There is no storm of chaos... it was purge from cannon sometime ago...

[Costin_Razvan]

There is no storm of chaos... it was purge from cannon sometime ago...

The game is based off Storm of Chaos and not End Times, they said it themselves.

[scoicarius]

There is no storm of chaos... it was purge from cannon sometime ago...

Since it probably won't follow the official End of Times lore, we could say it is another Storm of Chaos, similar to the first.

[Costin_Razvan]

Storm of Chaos was the cannon before they replaced it with End Times. CA's take is that Storm of Chaos is cannon for their game and even IF this was based on End Times Archaon's crusade would still be the central story thread.

[scoicarius]

Storm of Chaos was the cannon before they replaced it with End Times. CA's take is that Storm of Chaos is cannon for their game.

They might very well go for a rewrite of the Storm of Chaos and put their own spin on it.

[Boomkow]

I am sure my post will get lost in this thread, but here I go.

Chaos is a CORE race in both Warhammer Universes. They are essential to the world, the fluff, and the battles. For instance, in the new Age of Sigmar (continuation of Fantasy, sorta), the two factions that are key players are the Empire and Chaos. This is not about artistic direction. It's about greed. I don't know who to blame, but I am sure someone at GW or CA/Sega are to blame.

For those of you who don't know, Games Workshop have a history of exorbitant pricing, so it could be them pushing like this hard. Though, I'm sure CA/Sega are doing this one all on their own.

And another thing, if the game comes out and ends up horrible, which it might, the Chaos Faction DLC may be given as the free race, so pre-ordering is even more pointless.

[LinusLinothorax]

The horrendous feedback on Youtube and the TW forums is so obvious, and still they continue their hated pre-order/race pack dlc policy.