What does this game need to make the WRE campaign more challenging and immersive?

[Aenima]

I don't know about the rest of you but short of increasing the battle difficulty I'm never able to really an engaging, immersive and edge-of-my-seat thrilling campaign as the WRE. I remember loving Barbarian Invasion because playing as the WRE was often far more exciting with an aggressive AI and hordes that actually posed a threat. Now, though, that's just not the case.

By the time Attila comes of age I've stabilised public order and income and killed off most if not all hordes, all whilst having enough fleets and armies to defend and even extend my borders. Eventually I stop feeling like a beleagured and weakened Roman empire and more like a super power that can just crush almost any faction with ease. I can conquer all of Africa, Britain and even Germany whilst, even more ahistorically, the Sassanid's vassals come across the Steppe and into Eastern Europe. The game just eventually loses the appeal it holds for me, which is trying to keep the WRE alive.

What I'd love to play is a campaign in which the map relatively reflects what actually happened; Huns in control of the Steppe and much of eastern Europe, ERE and Sassanids in conflict (no Persian expansion into Europe by north of the Black sea, please...) with Germanic and Celtic tribes posing a genuine threat to the empire. Oh, and hordes that actually pose a strategic threat, maybe even with predetermined goals such as raiding and settling in territories that they actually did, not just looting Pannonia until they're wiped out.


Asides from things like that I genuinely don't see how this game can be hard and a fun challenge without simply upping the battle difficulty and/or not researching troop upgrades (but then that just makes battles stupid and rage-inducing, not a fun challenge)

[ThorHa]

A seasoned veteran with hundreds or thousands hours of gameplay under his belt complaining about missing challenge in the 10th sequel of a preferred game?

[Aenima]

A seasoned veteran with hundreds or thousands hours of gameplay under his belt complaining about missing challenge in the 10th sequel of a preferred game?

Being called a seasoned veteran made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...

But I'm really not that good of a TW player, despite my years of experience. I don't play with tons of missile or cavalry units, for instance, I like to play somewhat realistically with a blend of spears and swords as the bulk of my army with a few missile and cavalry units in support. I'm not asking for the game to become a strategic headache, I'd mainly just appreciate more immersion and some kind of way for the WRE campaign to not feel like it becomes easy after a few turns.

[Lugotorix]

Mods. Although WRE on H was the single-most challenging campaign I've ever played. Including VH and Legendary ones.

[vinxente]

Use a mod to reduce the cost of Mercenary Onager back to release version price. WRE campaign are ton more fun when AI can have access to artillery early.

[Aurelius Silvanus Tacitus]

1: Stop with the Onager spam! Also, give them less accuracy, it's onagers not mortars
2: Less razing
3: CAI must be improved

[Bingbangbong]

Why not just increase the battle difficulty then? You can't complain about the game being too easy if you aren't playing on the hardest settings!

[AaronTheGreat]

Are you playing it on legendary?

Sounds like you want a scripted game rather than a free-for-all, which would actually make it easier.

Also, Sassanid tributary states barely dent Eastern Europe. In fact, at the end of my Saxon Legendary campaign I was annoyed the Sassanids weren't coming after me outside Asia at all.

You are playing alternate history, that begins the second you attack a faction in a year they didn't historically in a town they didn't historically.

[Humble Warrior]

A siege that actually ends when all siege weapons gone...

[Bingbangbong]

A siege that actually ends when all siege weapons gone...

But you don't need siege weapons to take towns/cities... Whenever possible I always attack walled settlements from the sea and don't think I've ever even seen the AI use anything except onagers in siege battles to break through walls.

[Humble Warrior]

But you don't need siege weapons to take towns/cities... Whenever possible I always attack walled settlements from the sea and don't think I've ever even seen the AI use anything except onagers in siege battles to break through walls.

Just because you attack only from the sea, doesn`t mean everyone else does! Guess you don`t play enough then, lad.

[Bingbangbong]

Just because you attack only from the sea, doesn`t mean everyone else does! Guess you don`t play enough then, lad.

If you bothered to read what I said properly, you'd notice the 'wherever possible' part. Also lots of the walled settlements already have holes in the walls that are part of the design. I guess if you played a bit more you might know that too..

[Humble Warrior]

If you bothered to read what I said properly, you'd notice the 'wherever possible' part. Also lots of the walled settlements already have holes in the walls that are part of the design. I guess if you played a bit more you might know that too..

And you would know that are many times when there aren`t holes in the walls and that the AI does attack with more than just Onagers. And Onagers are siege weapons too. Stop wasting your time and mine.

[Gillam I]

Just because you attack only from the sea, doesn`t mean everyone else does! Guess you don`t play enough then, lad.

I use fire ships to blow up the city and the defenses before my land forces even move.

[removeduser_45762834756]

My post in the "next patch suggestions" thread is mostly about WRE and ERE so i suggest anyone who might be interested, to follow the quote link and take a peek.

long list of stuff

[econ21]

Aenima, try to save the ERE. That makes the WRE campaign challenging and immersive. You have to act fast. It definitely can't wait for Attila to come of age. You probably need 2 stacks down there by 400 or so to contest the region around Edessa. Maybe a couple more soon after if you are to conquer the Sassanids and their clients. That's hard to manage early on when you are still trying to stabilise the WRE's own territory and get your economy going.

Other than that, the biggest single factor may be diplomatic relations with Attila. If you keep peace with the Huns, the WRE game can be very quiet as sometimes the Huns are content to just wander around squishing Germans. There's a case for declaring war to keep things lively. But doing that and saving the ERE would definitely be challenging.

However, the ERE mirror game to the above is arguably harder: saving the WRE while fending off the Sassanids. The AI WRE is just hopeless. Watching it be devoured is very immersive, if sad for a Romanophile.

[yupper]

By the time Attila comes of age I've stabilised public order and income and killed off most if not all hordes, all whilst having enough fleets and armies to defend and even extend my borders. Eventually I stop feeling like a beleagured and weakened Roman empire and more like a super power that can just crush almost any faction with ease. I can conquer all of Africa, Britain and even Germany whilst, even more ahistorically, the Sassanid's vassals come across the Steppe and into Eastern Europe. The game just eventually loses the appeal it holds for me, which is trying to keep the WRE alive.

It's the same feeling for me. The WRE campaign is amazingly addictive in the first and second chapter. After Attila dies, however, the appeal of the campaign really takes a dive. There isn't a different kind of challenge anymore, just the same late game rinse-and-repeat map conquest endemic to previous TW games. I don't think there is much that can be done about this. R2TW attempted to remedy the late game sandbox drudgery with it's civil war mechanics, but that raised more ire than joy for me. Since faction influence is easier to maintain (and more sensible) in ATW, that usually doesn't happen in late game if you manage your faction politics right. The one thing I've never cared about was saving ERE. If anything, when I play WRE, I always try to make unifying the Roman Empire my late game goal. Breaking your trade agreement with ERE really causes WRE's faction income to dip, and can sometimes provide a challenge. I just wish there was a way for WRE to access some uber cavalry in the late game. I really dislike the crossbow heavy armies since I am a traditional hammer-anvil type.

[Lugotorix]

Honestly, I found my WRE campaign immersive and challenging. One thing that could help is more diversity in character portraits. IMO the ERE and the WRE should have their portraits pools combined to make for less look-alikes.

[Lionheart11]

Strategic maps where terrain really does matter and not oh hey "it's the flat lands map with nothing on it"

So we can use our brain and enjoy the challenge.

[The Iron Chancellor]

I'd prefer they had stronger starting defences across the European frontier: a garrison building in each of the small towns and an army in the border province capitals. Ideally, the initial challenge should come from economy and public order - I find that they are attacked by the Celts and Germans too soon. While not a massive issue when playing as the Western Roman Empire, the AI crumbles by 410AD; they then tend to have lost Britain, the Balkans, Gaul and most of Italy, which shouldn't really happen that early in the campaign.