Seriously, why did CA make >1 wall meaningless in their castle designs?

[dearmad]

You take one wall... you can run along it to the inner walls without having to go thgouh any other walls. You're done. Take the sqaure, battle over.

All the walls are connected!? I can not fathom why on earth they did this unless they couldn't face programming an AI for it. They touted this feature (the multiple walls) as something cool. But as it is.. casltes seem nearly pointless. They offer no greater defense at higher levels since you can avoid having to actually "take" the inner walls and the donjon.

[Endeav]

Well, you don't HAVE to walk along to the outer wall, if CA made it this way, you can still challenege yourself by breaching the other rings. I didn't even notice until someone pointed it out, and I still just breach the walls anyhow. Not like a citadel's walls can stand up to cannon fire anyways.

[Mooncabbage]

You can't actually. Have you tried it? Friendly units can retreat along the wall into the next ring, enemy units can't. I found that out the hard way. Had to lure the stupid AI out so I could chase it back through the gate of the inner ring wall.

Still I would have liked to have seen some proper curtain walley things like you would see in a real, unplanned set of walls.

PS. Thought just came to me: You can probably have very interesting battles by attacking the castle directly, since that is where the all important plaza is.

Thoughts?

[Amroth]

You can't actually. Have you tried it? Friendly units can retreat along the wall into the next ring, enemy units can't. I found that out the hard way. Had to lure the stupid AI out so I could chase it back through the gate of the inner ring wall.

I have tried it, and it works. I sent three archer units onto the walls of their third ring, and decimated the units in the square...

[Destraex]

I attacked a multi walled town.
My troops were able to go straight through the towers to the second wall

There were no enemy troops around which may have been the reason.

If there were enemy troops in the area then i imagine I would perhaps not been allowed through???

Has anyone experimented with this?

[dearmad]

Oh ok. I DID try it, but I was testing out my own castle... I couldn't believe my eyes so I marched a unit around my own walls. Have not yet tried it in an enemy castle. I will and I hope to get slaughtered.

I'm GLAD you learned the hard way on this one- it means there is a hard way.

However the post above refutes your experience...

So now I'll have to just test it out a few times... maybe some castle designs are bugged and don't keep enemies out, while some do work? Report which place and which faction you attack, I'd suggest.

[Mooncabbage]

That would be my guess... there where units in the square when i tried to get my mercenary crossbows up there to finish them off, so perhaps that is it. Many of the defences in TW don't work without units nearby so i would not be surprised.

[Rupertel]

well, i was attackted by the mongols in a 2 ring castle (acre?), and the first thing they did after i left them the 1st ring was to send almost all their infantry to a remote corner of the castle and try to pour in through the towers into the inner ring - so you can go through, even if there are defenders nearby, i had to fight them back and i barley managed to kill them... i'm just glad cav can't go through there, stupid mongols

[ablitzkrieg]

I believe this is somewhat accurate of how fortresses/citadels were actually built. Makes sense too, however, i think you should have to break into each tower before you can move into each section of wall. This way enemies cant just run throughout your entire castle unimpeded.

[Darkmoor]

I believe this is somewhat accurate of how fortresses/citadels were actually built.

only the very bad ones.

concentric ring castles were quite prevalent by the mid middle ages and most assuredly did not have inter-connecting walls.

Some would have connectors that could be removed (wooden bridges, mini-drawbridges) and similar, but to have a continuing wall is madness.

Some outer wall towers were even open-backed to allow them to fired into by ranged units on the inner walls if they were taken.... and some of those open-backed wall towers (and closed backed) also had no connection from one side to the other apart from wooden platforms that could be removed to stop troops passing from one side of the tower tot he other, and thus isolating a section of wall if it was taken.

Castle design was pretty ingenious and vary rarely stupid. Including continuous walls sadly makes M2 castle very pretty but rather... well, let's just say "the architect was hung drawn and quartered shortly before the builder - the plumber only escaped due to the complete absence of any plumbing".

Read Sidney Toy - Castles: Their construction and History for a good book on detailed construction with plenty of good diagrams/sketches.

[NoSiS]

actualy, ive not only tried this but tested it and yes it works BUT, it is only possible on the far end of the castle within the second wall, so to do this your/the enemies troops have to march quite a long way alongside the walls - if you have those walls packed with archers and men near the towers so they are firing aswell, than not many will get through

ontop of that just position some melee at the doors the few who get through will come out of, and there is nothing to worry about - i didnt like it at first glance, but once you understand it and come up with a strategy its not only realistic but balanced aswell

[Destraex]

im more worried about the AI being effective defending castles.
Especially if you can get through even when enemy are nearby

[John I Tzimisces]

im more worried about the AI being effective defending castles.
Especially if you can get through even when enemy are nearby

on e/e, I saw the AI retreat successively from my much more substantial force from wall layer to wall layer. By the time I managed to breach the inner walls, I hadn't fought many units and my boys were tired from the hike...

A very good thing I remembered bombards.

No one can defend CA for this, not even the fanbois.

Actually, I'd invite you to read the thread.

[Juggernaut]

"Actually, I'd invite you to read the thread"
To me it looks like the conclusion in the thread is "Design of the castle in-game is very stupid that looks nothing like the clevery built real ones.

[Markas]

Adding boiling oil would make them more competitive than cities but I guess CA where out of time on that one.

[Destraex]

has anyone been able to move anything but a battering ram through the gates?? MAybe this is the reason they "had too" make the castle walls a joke

[Wurfspiess]

has anyone been able to move anything but a battering ram through the gates?? MAybe this is the reason they "had too" make the castle walls a joke

not yet but you can move siege equipment through holes in the wall

[Darkmoor]

not yet but you can move siege equipment through holes in the wall

Some units wont fit through the gates but you can carry through ladders for one thing - and anything fits through a gaping hole in the wall!

You know I have the feeling that the tower (which is always what connects the inner and outer walls) should probably be closed off (as it is on the other side of ALL castle types) and may just be left over from testing/pathing.

Certainly hope it can be closed off and it does rather spoil the difficulty of taking a castle.

They may just have forgotten to remove it (close it).

[La Vache Qui Rit]

Seems pretty silly really, the door should be taken out. Probably an oversight by CA, how can this be highlighted to them? Lusted?

[Destraex]

you can take ladders through - now thats awesome.
And siege equipment through holes - thats also awesome

So why the need for secret doors to the inner walls on every castle?