Whats up with fighting on the Walls?

[NineinchNails2010]

Am I missing something here?
Cause ive had Feudal Foot knights attack (in a general led army) up ladders on to the walls, they were all up there and THEN they started fighting mercernary crossbowmen and it was a complete massacre. The crossbowmen just tore them to shreds fighting hand-to-hand????

Now im thinking okay fair enough, defenders must get a bonus of some sort. but then I try to defend an English city against the danes. 30 green dismounted huscarls climb in groups of 3s into a group of experienced English foot Knights and again my troops get sliced and diced?????

So is any one else confused about this cause it sure baffles me. If im doing something wrong then fair enough but it sure pisses me of.

[Endeav]

They nerfed siege towers and ladders, the defending forces on the tower get a huge bonus because as soon as your guys step off the ladders, its 3v1 and they just die real quick. You can do this yourself in a defense, a unit of spear militia will kill 3-4 enemy units of superior quality with no problems.

[ProudNerd]

They nerfed siege towers and ladders, the defending forces on the tower get a huge bonus because as soon as your guys step off the ladders, its 3v1 and they just die real quick. You can do this yourself in a defense, a unit of spear militia will kill 3-4 enemy units of superior quality with no problems.

yeah it was liek that in rome thye come up the ladder and almost insantly die from being surronded and outnumbered by the troops on the walls. you need to aim for places wih no deffenders. use siges towers to deliver troops imto awall unit you can get mroe men into the figth that way.

[lawngnome]

I think of it like... the guys defending are defending their wives and children and homes... it's going to be tough to beat desperate men in that situation... so I don't mind. I actually think it should be nearly impossible for defending units to rout.

[dearmad]

I find the ratio closer to 1.5 to 1, but the other possiblity the OP is facing is that there are many types fo crossbowmen in this game- some have decent armor and decent h/h weapons- Pevensey (sp) crossbowmen come to mind.

[Dark Exodus]

Don't forget the arrows from the towers, they cause quite a few casualties. Like parking infantry just outside enemy walls, but at nearly point blank range.

[NineinchNails2010]

Yeah I can understand that but then why were my english knights tottaly torn a new one when they were defending? Surely they shoulda put up a decent fight? Seriously man they just got OWNED by outdated and inexperienced troops. I even threw some yeoman into the melee to help and they got torn apart as well.

[a8686]

try putting the attackers on defencive stance.. It helps alot as they start defending right as they get on the wall

[Wurfspiess]

I can tell you what
Even i can do something when a knight is crawling up on a ladder
the system is fine for me
I think the system represents also throwing down stones (furniture,whatever)

[Bauhaus in da haus]

I can tell you what
Even i can do something when a knight is crawling up on a ladder
the system is fine for me
I think the system represents also throwing down stones (furniture,whatever)

His knights were defending the walls against huscarls and yet they got owned. how do you explain that?

I've had similar things like this occur, too. The pathfinding is just bizarre on walls.

[lawngnome]

Freak accidents are always a good excuse. Things don't always happen the way you expect them to in real life, nor do they always happen the way they 'should' in a game... if it happens repeatedly then, yeah, that's not right, but for now, just look at it like... Wow, that sucked.

[Flavius]

You guys talking about dismounted English Knights? Apparently, there's a problem with them that they can never attack because they all are hit mid-animation, since their attack animation takes twice as long as all the other units in the game. Maybe that explains it?

[Mooncabbage]

As to the OP, a lot of the units are weird compared to what you might expect: Mercenary Crossbowmen have an attack value of 6, compared to Peasant/Militia Archers/Crossbowmen who have an attack of 2. You might be surprised to find that Peasants have an attack value of 5, compared to the 6-9 values of basic spear infantry units, meaning they can actually kill stuff.

Seems like the defense value of units is a lot more important now, as it dictates how long they can survive in a fight, rather than the attack value, which seems to be more of an indication of it's ability to overcome the armour of other units, than it's general combat effectiveness; ie. A unit with a high offensive value is equally effective against units of both high and low defensive values, where a unit with a low attack value will be far less effective against a unit with a high defensive value. If that makes ANY sense at all, I haven't done any testing or anything, that's just my best guess from my experiences.

In any case, units are a lot more even in a man to man sense than before, and numbers seem to play a much bigger role.

I'll be interested to see if any of you find the same thing.

[Cadmium77]

You're climbing up a ladder....a tall ladder....to a crenelated wall top....and you've got a big weapon in your hand. There are a limited number of ladders. Only one lumbering man can go up the ladder and over the top at a time, only to be immediately greeted by a mob of knife wielding demons intent on murder. So only 4 men at a time can jump into that mob of 80 or more murderous demons. I don't care how elite they are, they'll probably die 4 at a time. The general wisdom on assaulting an entrenched or fortified position is that the attackers should outnumber the defenders by about 3 or 4 to one or risk a catastrophic debacle. General Colin Powell and General Schwartzkopf like 5 to one. If I'm going to assault with ladders I'm going to assault a vacant stretch of wall at the very least. If not I'd expect to fail miserably, wasting perfectly good men.

Just be glad the enemy doesn't push the ladders off from the walls when they're loaded with climbing men.

And if you think that is a dubious proposition I invite you to borrow the longest extendable painter's ladder you can find, prop it up against a three story building and climb to the top; like the view? like the way it wobbles treacherously under your feet? Like the feeling that the soft earth supporting it could give way on one side toppling you to the ground for a pair of broken femurs?

Please, use your wits here...

And please, learn the game of total war before you start accusing the developers of being incompetent.

You guys would make good WWI Western Front generals, like the ones in Paths of Glory; you love sending men to certain death assaulting impregnable positions and then blaming them when they fail..

[Angmar_nite]

One thing I love about wall battles is how you can arrange you men in rows!

Now aside from that off topic excalamation of joy, Notice the crossbows with decent sized swords instead of daggers. Also if it seems as if you chance of victory and moral directly affects combat ability. I'v had spear militia torn apart by crossbows after a segment of the wall was secured.

In fact I'm glad for M2TW's focus on rams as they were very important unlike RTW portrays them.

[NineinchNails2010]

You're climbing up a ladder....a tall ladder....to a crenelated wall top....and you've got a big weapon in your hand. There are a limited number of ladders. Only one lumbering man can go up the ladder and over the top at a time, only to be immediately greeted by a mob of knife wielding demons intent on murder. So only 4 men at a time can jump into that mob of 80 or more murderous demons. I don't care how elite they are, they'll probably die 4 at a time. The general wisdom on assaulting an entrenched or fortified position is that the attackers should outnumber the defenders by about 3 or 4 to one or risk a catastrophic debacle. General Colin Powell and General Schwartzkopf like 5 to one. If I'm going to assault with ladders I'm going to assault a vacant stretch of wall at the very least. If not I'd expect to fail miserably, wasting perfectly good men.

Just be glad the enemy doesn't push the ladders off from the walls when they're loaded with climbing men.

And if you think that is a dubious proposition I invite you to borrow the longest extendable painter's ladder you can find, prop it up against a three story building and climb to the top; like the view? like the way it wobbles treacherously under your feet? Like the feeling that the soft earth supporting it could give way on one side toppling you to the ground for a pair of broken femurs?

Please, use your wits here...

And please, learn the game of total war before you start accusing the developers of being incompetent.

You guys would make good WWI Western Front generals, like the ones in Paths of Glory; you love sending men to certain death assaulting impregnable positions and then blaming them when they fail..

If all that was directed at me I got an idea for ya. How about you read all my posts before telling me to use my wits? And where did I accuse CA of being incompetent? And yes I do know the game of total war thank you. Oh yeah Im not a retard, I realise units climbing up a ladder should take heavy losses, if you bothered to read my posts you would realise I was talking about units DEFENDING, (y'know thats when they are attacked first and they have the advantagewhen on the walls )

Yeah you would make a great modern politician, not reading the whole report and just going ahead with what you wanna do.

Oh and Mooncabbage lol, yeah that did make sense man ( I think =) )

If that thing about English foot knights is true than yeah that does explain it, next time ill stick with my feudal knights or armoured swordsmen.

Cheers people. = )

[Tiwaz]

As for why huscarls tore up those knights. Are you SURE they were not upgraded huscarls? And what about the general... He can give big boost to morale with his command.

[Valerius Maximus]

that's why prefer using towers, at least that way they move onto the walls in a bigger group. still would be good if 1 unit would push the towers while another 1 is already in the tower , ready to attack

[ablitzkrieg]

still would be good if 1 unit would push the towers while another 1 is already in the tower , ready to attack

That is a great idea!

Yeah I can understand that but then why were my english knights tottaly torn a new one when they were defending? Surely they shoulda put up a decent fight?

I actually think English footknights suck ass, they have poor defence and have very unwieldy poleaxes. I stopped using them after i started building armored swordsmen.

[Lusted]

I actually think English footknights suck ass, they have poor defence and have very unwieldy poleaxes. I stopped using them after i started building armored swordsmen.

Their animation set is bugged so they actually hardly ever attack.