Silvan Elves Campaign - some observations

[julianj99]

As several forum members liked my musings about how to play Dale, I thought I would put down what has happened in my Silvan Elves campaign so far. I can understand that some players think the SE are an easy faction, as I don't feel on theedge as I did with Dale, though there have been setbacks - I got Legolas killed (again), this time by the spiders in Mirkwood.


I am on T75 currently.


Strategy:


I am a bit builderish, and like t oturtle along so I can upgrade to the best troops but I initially felt that I needed a blitzkrieg to consolidate my holdings, and to grab Dol Guldur, as that is such a vital military region, and spawns awful Mordor armies. I wanted it as a southern bulwark against Mordor.


So while I sent my initial troops tocapture all the rebel provinces nearby (and running into those effing spiders – I wasn't being cautious enough in my haste to capturetowns) the aim was to then bring all the troops together under Thranduil, lure the Dol garrison out and teach them the error of their ways. On the second attempt I stormed the citadel. (after I had disabled the garrison script as I don't think it is fair).


Setbacks in the early game


1. Getting Legolas killed.

2.Leaving Caras Galadhon unguarded and a small force of Orcs grabbed it. I had to rush over nearby forces and liberate it. Fortunately the computer hadn't razed it to the ground (as a human player wouldhave probably done). So no long-term harm was done.

The lesson from this was build watchtowers like a maniac. I have basically gotthem covering all approaches, and if you build a loop of them in the southern part of Caras Galadhon province (over the bridge) you can watch over potential lines of attack from Isengard and Mordor as well as Moria.

3. Attacking Moria prematurely and liberating the Balrog. There can be no excusing this stupidity – I was chasing a badly damaged OoMM force and it ran into Moria, so I sieged it. Dumb. I would courtmartial the C-in-C (me) but he's sopolitically connected (me again) that he remains in place. Ideally he should suffer some punishment like being broken down to latrine orderly, or worse still, being made an Elven haircare and grooming auxiliary. That's why Elven troops take so long to raise, they have to have manicures before they can put on their armour.

Diplomacy

Important. I have alliances with Dwarves, Rohan and Dale. That secures my borders. Annoyingly, Rohan refuses me military access all the time.(I want to go down to Fangorn and hire some ents). I can't offer much money but they just refuse reciprocal military access, which seems fair, and adding tribute or map info doesn't seem to work. Any ideas?

I have made trade agreements with all and sundry.

Economy

I have been trying to build a strong economy. I have been using the various guides. It is going reasonably well – My economy can now support about three good Elvish forces(not full stacks but capable all-arms forces, mainly of Spearmen andLight Elven Archers. I have a decent amount of HA because I seem toget them from successful missions). My troops are now highly experienced.

I have tried to train up successful governors,following the advice from incomitatus' excellent MiddleEarth Strategikon
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...on-60-Complete


However, it isn't easy to create super governors, as they have to rush off to fight fires (that is incursions), so they can't just sit around building buildings for the good traits.


Tactics


Very similar to Dale. Link I have been using powerful archery armies to weaken the enemy then used spears. My HA goes round the flanks or rear, peppers them with arrows and charges when it seems tactically wise.


See the archery discussion here. Using these tactics I have given big stuffings to fullsize orc forces,including a 22:1 and 24:1 kill ratio (though there was favourable terrain and some luck involved).


After capturing Dol Guldur I went down twice and took Thoronburg castle off Mordor, then razed everything I could for the money, then went back North to my own territory with more watchtowers. It's back in the hands of rebels again. Mordor seems to have given up taking it so I now have a buffer zone.

The campaign against the Orcs of the Misty Mountains

This has been a bit of a slog. I wanted to consolidate after capturing Dol but I couldn't feel safe with those b**tards on my Western flank. I didn't quite have enough strength to do a through job on them. I started by capturing the wooden castle north of Moria and working upwards.Again, the computer didn't take advantage of this and strike hard for Cerin and Caras.

Sauron called an invasion of Edoras andthat turned to my advantage. Moria and Mordor (& others) sent their armies off there, and to my surprise, the Rohirrim under the AI played a blinder and gave them a stuffing. Shattered Moria forces would come back (I think the extra movement counts in retreat too), and I would destroy them before they got to Khazad dum.


This was really helpful as quite powerful forces got neutralised. The Balrog has disappeared, so maybe it went to Rohan and got splatted?


As far as I can see, Dale and the Dwarves are also doing OK, so that has helped me. Dunno what's happening with Gondor, I presume they are holding.


Computer Idiocies


However, I have just had two prime examples of AI stupidity, so I nearly biffed the computer in frustration. Certainly it got the benefit of some harsh language.


Firstly, I attacked Moria from both sides and sieged it, my thinking being that the strong OoMM forces inside would sally out and attack one of my forces, which even if it did not destroy them, would cause such damage that the other force could then capture it the next turn.


My prediction was correct and a whole lot of orcs, wargs and trolls came out of the Eastern gate. Joy oh Joy! Both of my armies can fight according to the battle screen. As it started I pulled back to the slope, expecting that my other army(under AI control, switched to aggressive mode), would trundle round to assist me. To buy time I left a ballista and a smallish spear unitin their initial position outside the gate. The wargs sallied out first and did a little forward and back soft paw shuffle, then went back inside. This happened a few times. I realised that my other army wasn't coming. So I did my own back and forward dance number, and raced to the fray as the orcs began their attack proper.


A very bloody battle ensued, where I wasted lots of them, killed their general and eventually chased the routers inside the first gate. I only had about 100 exhausted troops left. I'd topped over 2000 enemies and there were too many remaining to take on (745 in fact). I withdrew all my men, hoping against hope that my other army of 1000 fresh troops might do something useful. Nada, zilch, zip. It would have been a walkover for them.


I had to exit, and lose the battle,both my armies suffering casualties and retreating.


I was seething.


The silver lining is that I had killed the last OoMM faction member and the faction was destroyed, although Moria is now in the hands of strong rebel forces. Far less of a threat.


I am building up troops to attack it again. It is too valuable and I don't want another faction to get hold of it. This time I am only going to attack from one side and take a 20 stack + a handful of other units, so I will have fresh troops I can send in to replace units with reinforcements. Two ballistas are on the way to deal with the trolls.




Idiocy No. 2

My northern forces have been careful not to antagonise the Gundabad Orcs. I've been giving them small amounts of money to placate them.


They are definitely lurking around, so they probably want to attack me. I was hoping for some respite from war so I could build up my economy and transfer experienced troops North. On the other hand, if I whack the Gunda Bad Guys together with the dwarves, that makes the North safe.


While I was pondering this, I saw that the Dwarven King, on his own!!! had been chased near my main Northern army by a 14+ stack of Gundies. I had to rescue my ally, it wouldn't be honourable to leave him to his fate. So I brought my army adjacent to both the Dwarf and the Orcs. I didn't attack. I hoped that the Dwarf would retreat, and the Gundies would fear to attack me. Or the Dwarf would attack and it would be a de facto war situation.


Well, that's what happened. The Dwarven king attacked this huge army on his own. Instead of hanging back on the battlefield until I could reach him, he charged forward with his bodyguard. I raced along at full speed, sacrificing tactics for speed, but of course he got killed about a minute before my melee troops whacked into the rear of the great mass surrounding him. I totalled this army and as it was my most ruthless general, executed the prisoners.


More seething, I should have let the thick stumpy die, instead of precipitating a war and still not saving him.


The Next Strategic Moves


Firstly I am going to take Moria.


Then I will campaign against the Gundies, hopefully with the Dwarves. That is follow them around and join in when they attack, so I can ameliorate AI poor tactics.


Then I should be in good shape to attack Mordor, but that is a bit further in the future and I may change plans depending on what is happening.

[DrDragun]

My favorite opening maneuver with the Silvans is to rush Fanghorn, then build up a 3/4 stack of basic units in Cerin Amroth waiting for the Ents to arrive. When they arrive, grab Moria and use its rich mines to fix all the Silvans' economy problems. Also make sure to use the Ents to kill the resulting rage stack before they go home!

[julianj99]

Thanks Dr D. A completely different opening to mine. Shows there are many different ways to skin
a er...warg.

[julianj99]

I've captured Moria, after a bloody nose from the trolls I sat down and sieged it out. With the dwarves I have captured Gundabad - many more casualties than necessary because the AI didn't coordinate their attack with mine. The ring is now at Gram - not too far away. Unfortunately my forces in the North are too attrited to take it off a lot of orcs and trolls. Unfortunately I can hardly raise any new troops - it takes about 6 turns for any to come. I am pushing forward but I am not confident I can capture the ring, unless the computer fritters its strength away piecemeal.

T90.

[eugenioso]

As several forum members liked my musings about how to play Dale, I thought I would put down what has happened in my Silvan Elves campaign so far. I can understand that some players think the SE are an easy faction, as I don't feel on theedge as I did with Dale, though there have been setbacks - I got Legolas killed (again), this time by the spiders in Mirkwood.




I am on T75 currently.


Strategy:


I am a bit builderish, and like t oturtle along so I can upgrade to the best troops but I initially felt that I needed a blitzkrieg to consolidate my holdings, and to grab Dol Guldur, as that is such a vital military region, and spawns awful Mordor armies. I wanted it as a southern bulwark against Mordor.

Could not agree more. Dol Guldur will be a necessity against the mordor stack horde.


So while I sent my initial troops tocapture all the rebel provinces nearby (and running into those effing spiders – I wasn't being cautious enough in my haste to capturetowns) the aim was to then bring all the troops together under Thranduil, lure the Dol garrison out and teach them the error of their ways. On the second attempt I stormed the citadel. (after I had disabled the garrison script as I don't think it is fair)

As long as you go for the eastern rebel provinces, then the dwarves and dale will stick to moving eastwards. A one space move done slowly will avoid you running onto the spiders (one block of movement, then another, as opposed to going straight towards your location)

Setbacks in the early game


1. Getting Legolas killed.

2.Leaving Caras Galadhon unguarded and a small force of Orcs grabbed it. I had to rush over nearby forces and liberate it. Fortunately the computer hadn't razed it to the ground (as a human player wouldhave probably done). So no long-term harm was done.

The lesson from this was build watchtowers like a maniac. I have basically gotthem covering all approaches, and if you build a loop of them in the southern part of Caras Galadhon province (over the bridge) you can watch over potential lines of attack from Isengard and Mordor as well as Moria.

3. Attacking Moria prematurely and liberating the Balrog. There can be no excusing this stupidity – I was chasing a badly damaged OoMM force and it ran into Moria, so I sieged it. Dumb. I would courtmartial the C-in-C (me) but he's sopolitically connected (me again) that he remains in place. Ideally he should suffer some punishment like being broken down to latrine orderly, or worse still, being made an Elven haircare and grooming auxiliary. That's why Elven troops take so long to raise, they have to have manicures before they can put on their armour.

Big no-no's. Im not a big fan of removing the garrison script, as it makes the job a lot easier and the AI cant manage garrisons at all.

Diplomacy

Important. I have alliances with Dwarves, Rohan and Dale. That secures my borders. Annoyingly, Rohan refuses me military access all the time.(I want to go down to Fangorn and hire some ents). I can't offer much money but they just refuse reciprocal military access, which seems fair, and adding tribute or map info doesn't seem to work. Any ideas?

I have made trade agreements with all and sundry.

If you are allied with a faction then they cant declare war on you. With that being said, you dont need permission to march through their lands. Just go on and ignore the military access crap.

Economy

I have been trying to build a strong economy. I have been using the various guides. It is going reasonably well – My economy can now support about three good Elvish forces(not full stacks but capable all-arms forces, mainly of Spearmen andLight Elven Archers. I have a decent amount of HA because I seem toget them from successful missions). My troops are now highly experienced.


I have tried to train up successful governors,following the advice from incomitatus' excellent MiddleEarth Strategikon
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?568344-WIP-Middle-Earth-Strategikon-60-Complete


However, it isn't easy to create super governors, as they have to rush off to fight fires (that is incursions), so they can't just sit around building buildings for the good traits.

I will disagree with the governor strategy; the cities in TATW have been capped so that there is a maximum pop growth and trade income, ergo governors (in a game in which income has been drastically reduced and troop upkeep is much bigger) are wasted as governors save in large cities where their presence might be noticed (in other words, keeping a governor in Thranduil's halls, sure, but keeping one in random village #1, not so much)


Tactics


Very similar to Dale. Link I have been using powerful archery armies to weaken the enemy then used spears. My HA goes round the flanks or rear, peppers them with arrows and charges when it seems tactically wise.

Keep archers away from melee as much as possible. Silvan heavy archers (in vanilla) cannot be replaced until many many turns later, and their powerful arrows and range rivaling


See the archery discussion here. Using these tactics I have given big stuffings to fullsize orc forces,including a 22:1 and 24:1 kill ratio (though there was favourable terrain and some luck involved).


After capturing Dol Guldur I went down twice and took Thoronburg castle off Mordor, then razed everything I could for the money, then went back North to my own territory with more watchtowers. It's back in the hands of rebels again. Mordor seems to have given up taking it so I now have a buffer zone.


The campaign against the Orcs of the Misty Mountains

This has been a bit of a slog. I wanted to consolidate after capturing Dol but I couldn't feel safe with those b**tards on my Western flank. I didn't quite have enough strength to do a through job on them. I started by capturing the wooden castle north of Moria and working upwards.Again, the computer didn't take advantage of this and strike hard for Cerin and Caras.

Sauron called an invasion of Edoras andthat turned to my advantage. Moria and Mordor (& others) sent their armies off there, and to my surprise, the Rohirrim under the AI played a blinder and gave them a stuffing. Shattered Moria forces would come back (I think the extra movement counts in retreat too), and I would destroy them before they got to Khazad dum.


This was really helpful as quite powerful forces got neutralised. The Balrog has disappeared, so maybe it went to Rohan and got splatted?


As far as I can see, Dale and the Dwarves are also doing OK, so that has helped me. Dunno what's happening with Gondor, I presume they are holding.


Computer Idiocies


However, I have just had two prime examples of AI stupidity, so I nearly biffed the computer in frustration. Certainly it got the benefit of some harsh language.


Firstly, I attacked Moria from both sides and sieged it, my thinking being that the strong OoMM forces inside would sally out and attack one of my forces, which even if it did not destroy them, would cause such damage that the other force could then capture it the next turn.


My prediction was correct and a whole lot of orcs, wargs and trolls came out of the Eastern gate. Joy oh Joy! Both of my armies can fight according to the battle screen. As it started I pulled back to the slope, expecting that my other army(under AI control, switched to aggressive mode), would trundle round to assist me. To buy time I left a ballista and a smallish spear unitin their initial position outside the gate. The wargs sallied out first and did a little forward and back soft paw shuffle, then went back inside. This happened a few times. I realised that my other army wasn't coming. So I did my own back and forward dance number, and raced to the fray as the orcs began their attack proper.


A very bloody battle ensued, where I wasted lots of them, killed their general and eventually chased the routers inside the first gate. I only had about 100 exhausted troops left. I'd topped over 2000 enemies and there were too many remaining to take on (745 in fact). I withdrew all my men, hoping against hope that my other army of 1000 fresh troops might do something useful. Nada, zilch, zip. It would have been a walkover for them.


I had to exit, and lose the battle,both my armies suffering casualties and retreating.

The problem in these battles is that the custom terrain plays havoc on the supposed reinforcement routes that the armies coming onto the field have to take.


I was seething.


The silver lining is that I had killed the last OoMM faction member and the faction was destroyed, although Moria is now in the hands of strong rebel forces. Far less of a threat.


I am building up troops to attack it again. It is too valuable and I don't want another faction to get hold of it. This time I am only going to attack from one side and take a 20 stack + a handful of other units, so I will have fresh troops I can send in to replace units with reinforcements. Two ballistas are on the way to deal with the trolls.




Idiocy No. 2

My northern forces have been careful not to antagonise the Gundabad Orcs. I've been giving them small amounts of money to placate them.


They are definitely lurking around, so they probably want to attack me. I was hoping for some respite from war so I could build up my economy and transfer experienced troops North. On the other hand, if I whack the Gunda Bad Guys together with the dwarves, that makes the North safe.


While I was pondering this, I saw that the Dwarven King, on his own!!! had been chased near my main Northern army by a 14+ stack of Gundies. I had to rescue my ally, it wouldn't be honourable to leave him to his fate. So I brought my army adjacent to both the Dwarf and the Orcs. I didn't attack. I hoped that the Dwarf would retreat, and the Gundies would fear to attack me. Or the Dwarf would attack and it would be a de facto war situation.


Well, that's what happened. The Dwarven king attacked this huge army on his own. Instead of hanging back on the battlefield until I could reach him, he charged forward with his bodyguard. I raced along at full speed, sacrificing tactics for speed, but of course he got killed about a minute before my melee troops whacked into the rear of the great mass surrounding him. I totalled this army and as it was my most ruthless general, executed the prisoners.


More seething, I should have let the thick stumpy die, instead of precipitating a war and still not saving him.

You should have attacked the north almost immediately to both gain a good foothold on the northern misty mountains, as well as block an attack by a possible OOG invasion; simply buying them off would be long term more expensive and not even a guarantee of the AI acting nice.

The Next Strategic Moves


Firstly I am going to take Moria.


Then I will campaign against the Gundies, hopefully with the Dwarves. That is follow them around and join in when they attack, so I can ameliorate AI poor tactics.


Then I should be in good shape to attack Mordor, but that is a bit further in the future and I may change plans depending on what is happening.

[Flinn]

^
|

I would say the hardest-to-read reply I've seen in my life; please split the quotes dude.

Strategy:

I am a bit builderish, and like t oturtle along so I can upgrade to the best troops but I initially felt that I needed a blitzkrieg to consolidate my holdings, and to grab Dol Guldur, as that is such a vital military region, and spawns awful Mordor armies. I wanted it as a southern bulwark against Mordor.

a bit of self promotion If you like to turtle, have a look here

edit: have you seen this guide from the Norseman?

[julianj99]

Further developments:

The ring was in Gram, filled with Gundabad grunts - including the annual Troll Convention. I didn't have the strength to attack, then all but two units left and disappeared into Eriador. Thankfully that's not my responsibility. I pulled my two battered Northern armies into one and took Gram, and pulverised another army that came along, then razed the town and left with the ring. I've gifted the town to the Dwarves. I am pulling back from the north and consolidating my forces for an attack on Mordor.

No sign of any Ents in Fangorn.

Economy good - Moria a big help.

My plans are to send a strong force of HA to harass the little Mordor forces and follow up with a full stack with veteran Spears and Archers plus elite units. I also will send a Reserve/Support force to back this assault up.

Reserve/Support forces

Playing TW games in the past, I often found that my armies ran out of momentum, through casualties, having to garrison a captured city to stop it revolting, or trundling along slowly hampered by artillery. I also have found that concentrating on one field army is better than two or three where you can make mistakes.

Basically a Reserve/Support force follows the main army, garrisons captured places, and replaces damaged units, so the main army remains at or near full strength. It also often has artillery so this can be used if necessary. An example would be 3 garrison units, 3 good infantry units, 2 good cavalry units, 2 artillery batteries. There's no set formula. Any unit in the field too damaged gets rotated back to the support force, and either rebuilt or sent home. Of course the support force can fight if it has to, and you needn't worry about bandits, which you do if you are sending individual replacement units from home bases to a war front far away. I have found this to be a successful approach.

[Patronus]

Your SE campaign sounds like it is off to a great start!

OOTM are usually the 1st faction you have to destroy due to their proximity. Gungabad, Isengard, Mordor, Rhun are all viable for next moves. I've usually let the situation dictate my next move...if I see Rohan really struggling, I would go after Isengard...If I saw Dale and Dwarves struggling, I would send raiding armies into Rhun's interior cities (very fun)...ect. Really the best way to play SE, IMO, is to save/support your surrounding allies in their proxy wars/battles...this not only keeps you buffered from direct enemy invasions, but also keeps the enemy distracted so that you can organize massive armies for assaults at your discretion.

Military access with Rohan is kind of key (not sure if you have it yet or not) as you need to travel through their lands to aid Gondor and fully engage Mordor. I would usually capture an inconsequential city and gift it to them for alliance/access...doesn't always work, but has a generally good success rate.

Your inclusion of HA is good...they're often overlooked in the SE roster, but they really are key. They give you mobile firepower, good flanking attacks, and really good at prisoner-taking. They'll really show their usefulness when you start dealing with troll and mumakill spam.

It sounds like you haven't had the barracks event that gives you heavy swordsmen, spearmen and archers yet. Until that happens, your armies will be relatively vulnerable to prolonged melee; the early game SE infantry can hold their own against enemy infantry, but the casualties will put an undue burden on your treasury and recruitment efforts. Once you get the heavy infantry and archers for the SE, you may decide, as I did, to play a little more aggressively as you will then have some of the best infantry in the whole game.

Your comments on Reserve/Support forces were spot on! That will be the #1 challenge you face as you start to expand and attack more distant enemies...recruitment and reinforcement. Until you can get high enough SE culture in captured enemy settlements, your only option will be to have your replacement/reinforcement units recruited in advance and waiting near your main fighting armies. The logistics/reinforcement for the SE (and HE) are especially tough because of the long recruitment times and high unit upkeep. I found myself estimating casualties for future battles so that I could recruit and station the replacement/reinforcement units ahead of time. One pyrrhic victory too many, and you could easily find your campaign losing all of its momentum due to lack of reinforcements.

Overall, you sound like you are off to a great start! Capturing OOTM territories should give your economy a much-needed boost for further campaigns. I would definitely get some spies to check on Isengard's and Rhun's progress against your allies...if you let them go too long unchecked, they will start to steamroll and spam stacks.

BTW, for some reason, I never encountered spiders in my SE campaign. How did you fare against them? Are they considered a cav unit? Any recommendations on how to deal with them?

[julianj99]

Interesting suggestions. @Eugenisio - I play for enjoyment and to have an LOTR experience. There are lots of ways to make it even harder, like not fighting bridge battles. It's not an exam :-) So I don't use the garrison script because it just magics up troops and is no fun. Although I am fighting in the North against Gundabad I feel my forces are over extended. Thanks for the advice about moving through allied territory.

@Flinn I shall have a good read of your guide when I have a moment - it looks interesting. I tend not to read faction specific guides as I want to do things my way, and make my own mistakes.

[julianj99]

Hi Patronus, those are interesting comments. Logistics and economy do seem to be more of a headache than actually fighting the battles for the SE. I have a force down near E. osgiliath to aid the Gondorians and it is getting worn down to the stage I am worried it will cop it if it meets a big army (inc Trolls) coming out of Minas Morgul. Reinforcements are on the way but they are slogging through the misty marshes so they won't get there for 3-4 turns (ish). I have got some of the better units, but quite frankly I am going to post soon about "ordinary" troops as they are the backbone of my army and can be rebuilt/amalgamated much more easily than the "elite" units who are expensive, and I can only rebuild in Dol, Caras, or Moria, which are a bl**dy long way from the battlefront.

I did gift a city to Rohan for alliance and military access. I've got fangorn and given it autonomy. No sign of any trees with attitude.

Thanks for the heads-up about Isengard and Rhun - I've been in my own little war with Mordor and not bothered about them, or Harad. A spy will be dispatched soon, operating under the alias "Patronus". :-)

Edoras has fallen to a Mordor Invasion. I have a spy there and of course the AI isn't mustering much of a fightback to recapture it. I could probably scrape a 10 stack together out of garrisoning units but it would take forever to get down there to kick some orcish butt. I don't like this but I can't do a lot about it.

[Patronus]

Hi Patronus, those are interesting comments. Logistics and economy do seem to be more of a headache than actually fighting the battles for the SE. I have a force down near E. osgiliath to aid the Gondorians and it is getting worn down to the stage I am worried it will cop it if it meets a big army (inc Trolls) coming out of Minas Morgul. Reinforcements are on the way but they are slogging through the misty marshes so they won't get there for 3-4 turns (ish). I have got some of the better units, but quite frankly I am going to post soon about "ordinary" troops as they are the backbone of my army and can be rebuilt/amalgamated much more easily than the "elite" units who are expensive, and I can only rebuild in Dol, Caras, or Moria, which are a bl**dy long way from the battlefront.

I didn't realize that you were fighting that far south already. Yeah, the reinforcement issue can either make or break your campaigns. There are few different ways to crack that nut. From my own experience, when I went to fight Mordor (Gondor had pretty much been destroyed by the time I arrived), I used a 2 stack (full stacks, with many elite troops) to cut Mordor's advanced armies from its recruitment cities. I captured Cair Andros, East & West Osgliath along the big river (forget its name). This not only cut off Mordor's forward territories and armies from reinforcement, but it also gave me forward bases from which to reinforce and recruit from. Once they gained enough Elven culture, those 3 cities became the backbone of my campaign against Mordor, due to their proximity to the main fights.

I realize your situation may be different from mine. At the very least, you should look at capturing a major city/castle (either one that Gondor lost or a Mordor city) and convert it into a forward base ASAP. It will save you a lot of hassle in the long run.

I did gift a city to Rohan for alliance and military access. I've got fangorn and given it autonomy. No sign of any trees with attitude.

Full autonomy? Does that mean you don't control Fangorn anymore? I don't remember that happening in my SE campaign, and I did have Ents eventually.

Thanks for the heads-up about Isengard and Rhun - I've been in my own little war with Mordor and not bothered about them, or Harad. A spy will be dispatched soon, operating under the alias "Patronus". :-)

Lol...I'm honored. Hopefully he doesn't end up getting caught and hung by the enemy...

Edoras has fallen to a Mordor Invasion. I have a spy there and of course the AI isn't mustering much of a fightback to recapture it. I could probably scrape a 10 stack together out of garrisoning units but it would take forever to get down there to kick some orcish butt. I don't like this but I can't do a lot about it.

Edoras is usually a big Invasion target. So long as Rohan has other settlements available, I don't think recapturing Edoras needs to be a priority.

[julianj99]

When I got swapped fangorn with Rohan for another city, I got a message after a few turn that If I gave it autonomy the ents would send troops to my side, so I am still waiting.

I have captured Henneth Annun but Elvification (is that a word?!) is taking a very long time and I cannot raise troops there yet.

I forgot to answer your Q about spiders. Yes they are like creepy cavalry. There are about 2-3 mobs of them in the elven forest, as bandits, and they tend to jump you. Ughh. Not much help really, you can't stamp on a spider that's 8 feet across!! They are like hard cavalry, not as bad as trolls though, so you can kill them, they are much tougher than bandits though, so until you have fumigated them, wandering around the forest is dangerous for small groups of units.

[julianj99]

I haven't been able to play much for the last couple of weeks (OT Do check out The Last Kingdom TV show from the Bernard Cornwell books for Dark Ages fighting).

I sieged out The Black Gate. Last time as Dale I stormed it. Then my forces were too weak to hold it, so I had to besiege and storm it again. V costly. This time I took the slow but steady approach. That meant that when it fell I had destroyed a Mordor army for no casualties and had 2 x 20 stacks to invade. I had a heroic victory 1500 Elves vs nearly 4K orcs with my second army (not the best one) who then captured a weakly held Dogs Wang (or whatever that castle nestled near the Gate is called!).

The Ents turned up, then went home. Can you courtmartial a mobile tree?

In Mordor, I prefer to defend, by sitting on a slope and letting them come on so the elves have a high place to deploy. With my best army I destroyed another large 20 stack so Mordor has lost about 12000 troops in the last few turns. My deployment is a first line of spears, maybe with a few stakes if my Sentinels are present (they retreat to the archer line and are replaced by spearmen). A schiltrom at either end to close the flanks of the line. Heavy infantry 2nd Line. Archers 3rd, artillery and my general behind that. Any Forest Wardens end up as flankers/reserves - I have to say they have performed very well, given a certain lack of greenery in Mordor. Hate the place!

Trolls are still my bete noir. This time they headed straight for my Ballista, on a knoll on the Right Flank with a clear field of fire. So the big b'staads were fighting right in front of it and I couldn't get it to fire on them, possibly too short range. After the battle I looked and it had caused zero casualties.

I have started being quite forward with my cavalry. I send 2 or 3 units of HA to flank or rear the enemy on skirmish orders, circling too usually. When they have run out of arrows I just leave them there. Mordor is too open for them to be caught, and they can "kite" the enemy (as Patronus says). They are perfectly safe, but well-placed to cut down routers or deliver killer charges into the rear of shaken enemy.

In this battle my spears, woodland warriors, and Heavy Swordsmen were fighting well, as I tried to get one of my Forest Wardens to left flank the orcs but it got embroiled in combat. Then two orc units in the centre broke and were pursued by the spears, leaving my Heavy Infantry to swing outwards and destroy the rest of the orc line. The trolls were still pounding away, but I could free some more soldiers to finish them off. Adios Muchachos!

The spy codenamed Patronus (bit of a sneaky git ) has not been sent to Rhun. Dale appears to be doing well and I need him in Mordor, scouting ahead.

The area I call the Gondor Borderlands - East over the river towards Mordor, is mine. I captured Osgiliath. I haven't given it back to Gondor because I fear they will lose it again. Henneth Annun has started producing a small number of troops. I want to use my two armies in this region to bottle up Mordor on the Minas Morgul-Cirith Ungol pass. Unfortunately there is a big troll-heavy army lurking near that last little Mordor castle south of Osgiliath. I am being quite indecisive. I daren't leave it behind me and siege Minas M, but I also don't want to leave Osgiliath with a tiny garrison, so I am not sure what to do. These troops are right on the end of my reinforcements chain and I can't afford to take heavy losses....

Finally, I have sent a battlegroup of 8 units (1 HA, 2 Archer, General, 3 spears, 1 FW) towards Edoras. I want to capture all the Mordor possessions outside the Black Land and contain them. There are too many orc units in Edoras for me to take on so I am hoping for some help from Rohan. If they can destroy a few, then I will siege it and give it back to the Rohirrim.

[julianj99]

I attacked the troll heavy army, but the trolls weren't there. Then the next move they came out of wherever they were hiding and were up for a bit of mano-a-mano. The AI must have split up its stack. Sigh. I guess the computer hasn't read Napoleon or Clausewitz on concentrating your forces.

I'm still not convinced that ballistas do much to Trolls.

[eugenioso]

I attacked the troll heavy army, but the trolls weren't there. Then the next move they came out of wherever they were hiding and were up for a bit of mano-a-mano. The AI must have split up its stack. Sigh. I guess the computer hasn't read Napoleon or Clausewitz on concentrating your forces.

I'm still not convinced that ballistas do much to Trolls.

If you are playing a faction with not-too-good archers then ballistas with fire arrows are the way to murder trolls.

[DrDragun]

If the ballista hits a troll it will remove all 6 hitpoints and kill it with 1 shot unlike other attack types. However, the window of opportunity is usually pretty short given that trolls will rush your line when under fire. It's a good technique for sieging orc cities, however, which have the low wooden walls allowing you to shoot the trolls inside while they stand still. Even in that situation the accuracy can be frustrating sometimes.

[Joseignacio]

I have tried many times with archers, even with high elf elite archers with advanced braiding and NEVER i have been able to kill one single troll or Balrog along a single battle. The last one yesterday, 9 units of archers ranging from elite to normal tier, bronze to gold chevrons, almost full ranks, protected by infantry, shooting constantly flaming arrows to one troll unit and one Balrog unit in Moria.

Twice (two battles). Concretely the Balrogs I never can kill them with anything. I send elite shield wall guards to hold them and charge with elite expert cavalry (two units 42 and 61 soldiers) after they should have lost their momentum, once and again till the cavalry is exhausted and Nothing!.

[eugenioso]

I have tried many times with archers, even with high elf elite archers with advanced braiding and NEVER i have been able to kill one single troll or Balrog along a single battle. The last one yesterday, 9 units of archers ranging from elite to normal tier, bronze to gold chevrons, almost full ranks, protected by infantry, shooting constantly flaming arrows to one troll unit and one Balrog unit in Moria.

Twice (two battles). Concretely the Balrogs I never can kill them with anything. I send elite shield wall guards to hold them and charge with elite expert cavalry (two units 42 and 61 soldiers) after they should have lost their momentum, once and again till the cavalry is exhausted and Nothing!.

Dont use friggin flaming arrows unless you use them against Mumakil or you want to lower the enemy's morale.

[DrDragun]

Yeah the Balrog has much better defense vs arrows. Troll defense is 7/24/0 in armor/skill/shield with 5 hitpoints. Mostly 27 defense skill (melee defense) with a weak 7 defense vs archers. The Balrog is 28/22/0 with 10 hitpoints. Very strong defense versus melee and archers with 28 armor, you need armor piercing to defeat it (axes or crossbows will reduce the armor to 14 instead of 28). Silvans should use Beorning mercenaries, Woodland Warriors, and Ents.

[Joseignacio]

Wow! That's why. I had beornings in some of my armies. Pity. I finally simply hold fast those two times and reduced to 2/10 their strengths with strong loses on my side too, reinforced my army, sieged with a second one on the other side, and autoresolve, the only option to kill those dammned balrogs. By then the bar was like 7/8 blue and 1/8 red...