Germanocentrism in Attila Total War

[Darios]

I shall leave the Charlemagne DLC fans in peace and continue this topic in its own thread:

Upon launch, 6 (Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Saxons, Franks, Vandals, and Alans) out of the 10 (It can almost be argued that the WRE/ERE/Sassanids/and Huns are simply geographical "placeholders" as they are all "flawed" to various degrees in the campaign) playable factions were Germanic tribes. Since then...we've gotten:

Viking Forefathers - Northern Germanic tribes
Longbeards - Germanic tribes in Germania Proper
Celts - Not Germanic, a nice addition to the British Isles.
Blood and Burning - Waste of a DLC slot in my opinion
Last Roman - Campaign centered around fighting Germanic Kingdoms (With the Suebi as Free-LC)
Empires of Sand - Arguably the best DLC for Attila so far
Charlemagne - Germanic Kingdoms (centered around the most famous Germanic chieftian - Karl der Grosse (Charlemagne)

Now whether one believes (or not) that it is the best away to approach Late Antiquity is another debate upon itself, but you cannot deny that this game is Germanocentric to the extreme.

Conversely, Attila Total War lacks - Armenia, Sclavenians, Antes, Venedi, Sveta Huna (Hephthalites), Avari, Bulgars/Ongurs, and Lazica. Also take note that all of those "missing" playable factions are also on the eastern half of the campaign map. Tell me, which factions are we still missing in Western Europe?

I also think that a lot of the complaints from us Easterners would subside if CA would simply drop in and explain their rationale for choosing factions in this game. Even if the reasoning is "We're working with a skeleton crew due to the demands of Warhammer." then at the least I would stop getting my hopes up over this game, stop discussing Germanocentricism on the forums, and let Western Europeans enjoy their Charlemagne DLC in peace.

Let's discuss

[AnthoniusII]

Seriusly now...All we need is an extensive interview of a couple of CA/SEGA developers but with Questions we -the members- must make and not TWC interviewers.

[Willhelm123]

A time period featuring lots of very important invasions and migrations by Germanic tribes features lots of playable Germanic tribes. Shocker.

[DisgruntledGoat]

Considering the game is about Atilla who rampaged through western Europe and the eventual fall of the western roman empire of course there is going to be more focus there. This grand conspiracy of CA forcing a german centric view for whatever reason (I suppose to actively slight eastern Europeans?) is down right silly. Seriously, you guys come off as nationalist babies crying for their cultural recognition of the past to further substantiate your current national pride. Its the same crap where greeks complain about macedonians suggesting ancient macedonians were greek.

Go lament your back water European status somewhere else.

[AnthoniusII]

Considering the game is about Atilla who rampaged through western Europe and the eventual fall of the western roman empire of course there is going to be more focus there. This grand conspiracy of CA forcing a german centric view for whatever reason (I suppose to actively slight eastern Europeans?) is down right silly. Seriously, you guys come off as nationalist babies crying for their cultural recognition of the past to further substantiate your current national pride. Its the same crap where greeks complain about macedonians suggesting ancient macedonians were greek.

Go lament your back water European status somewhere else.

My friend...you have a point..But Attila was not only invaded in western europe.. Why a DLC focused on the "ucranian" plains with the slavic tribes in not the next DLC?
Attila in the focus in the Attila game...Am I right?

[Derpy Hooves]

I'm posting this thread on /twg/
Of course CA is Germano-centric. Why wouldn't they be? The descendants of the Germanic tribes control the world while everything else is irrelevant

[Darios]

Considering the game is about Atilla who rampaged through western Europe

Attila's final invasions might have been against Gaul and Italy but the Huns spent the majority of the time attacking the Eastern Roman and Sassanid Empires. Also, it wasn't the Huns that sent the Germanic tribes running for their lives into the Roman Empire, it was the Alans (who were pushed by the Huns themselves.)

This grand conspiracy of CA forcing a german centric view for whatever reason (I suppose to actively slight eastern Europeans?) is down right silly.

I do not believe in any conspiracies. I believe that CA opened an 8th grade history book, saw a map like the one listed below and imagined that all other European peoples (Romans, Sarmatians, Slavs, etc) ceased to exist and Germanic peoples took over Europe. I have no real problem with an emphasis on Germanic tribes, my problem is that it comes at the cost of completely ignoring other cultures.

Seriously, you guys come off as nationalist babies crying for their cultural recognition of the past to further substantiate your current national pride.

I remember how people complained about the lack of Germanic and Britonic factions in Rome II. I supported their efforts to at least improve the Suebi factions by adding more eye-candy and new units.

Its the same crap where greeks complain about macedonians suggesting ancient macedonians were greek.

Ancient Macedonians were Greek.

Go lament your back water European status somewhere else.

Who's being the nationalist now?

[AnthoniusII]

I'm posting this thread on /twg/
Of course CA is Germano-centric. Why wouldn't they be? The descendants of the Germanic tribes control the world while everything else is irrelevant

A point here!

CA are idiots as always.

Whatever the decisions on our end, nationalistic discussions about why faction X, Y or Z are under-represented/overrepresented in our titles is something that, in my experience, quickly descends from being a rational conversation to one that isn't.

Therefore, please refrain from emotional discussions about why X, Y or Z is included or excluded.

Furthermore, if you're really unhappy with the decisions we make (we can't please everyone, or include every faction) we do have the Assembly Kit, rich in potential for modding new factions into the game.

Thanks!

Craig

http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...=1#post1437197

No they are NOT IDIOTS
WE ARE THE IDIOTS because Graig's answer proves what i said in a previus post of mine:

Lets make things clear.......
CA/SEGA developers must stop see TW fans as their money makers and modders as their
people that make their work for free and they get payed for others work!

Actually what Graig says...You idiots stop complain about our work since you already paid for it!

[DisgruntledGoat]

I'm posting this thread on /twg/
Of course CA is Germano-centric. Why wouldn't they be? The descendants of the Germanic tribes control the world while everything else is irrelevant

Has it ever occurred to you that the vast majority of people don't actually think like that? They don't care if they can draw their lineage to so and so tribe, or clan or important historical peoples? That they aren't trying to push a specific world view?

My friend...you have a point..But Attila was not only invaded in western europe.. Why a DLC focused on the "ucranian" plains with the slavic tribes in not the next DLC?
Attila in the focus in the Attila game...Am I right?

This is the classic conspiracy "just asking questions" approach. The answer is THEY JUST CHOSE TO. Maybe they felt it would be too much of the same. I'm not CA. I tell you want it's not, it's not a some grand conspiracy to promote western European history and status. Deal with it.

Who's being the nationalist now?

But that is what you are doing isn't it? You feel that eastern Europe doesn't get the credit it deserves, it is not as prominent as it should be. The slavs were a great and powerful people and the world needs to respect that right? In your world view eastern Europe is viewed as a back water, unimportant to the world staged, when it really should be. Only a DLC for Attila Total War will fix that right?

Btw, I'm not even European. I can't trace my heritage back more than a generation and frankly I don't care to. I don't place importance on national identity. This kind of, demonstrably eastern European, ethnocentric behavior annoys the crap out of. Nationalism, ethnocentrism, religion, are all social constructs that have damaged the world and created barriers to peace and prosperity. The sooner we can get people out of these view points the better for us all. Total War seems to bring the nationalists out in droves and I enjoy discussing these trivial things with them, as I hope I can at least show those that reading the topics how silly the nationalists look.

[AnthoniusII]

This is the classic conspiracy "just asking questions" approach. The answer is THEY JUST CHOSE TO. Maybe they felt it would be too much of the same. I'm not CA. I tell you want it's not, it's not a some grand conspiracy to promote western european history and status. Deal with it.

You are not CA but you know the answer? Have you spoken to any of them or you can read their minds?
If you have spoken to any of them...please share with us your expirience. IF NOT let us ask for answers to our questions. Wise people do not speak when they have no answers at all.
If that matter is not a consern of yours please allow our right to be our consern to ask answers.

[Darios]

Has it ever occurred to you that the vast majority of people don't actually think like that? They don't care if they can draw their lineage to so and so tribe, or clan or important historical peoples? That they aren't trying to push a specific world view?

I think that people involuntarily push that world view due to not asking questions and being concerned about other theaters. Everyone knows that Germanic tribes wiped out the Western Roman Empire, these types of games have a responsibility to help open one's eyes to what was going on in other places at the time. CA does not seem to have any interest in that. They gave the Sassanids a ton of vassal states and sent them to give an Eastern Roman player something to endlessly fight against while they put their true work, focus, and skill into beautifully developing factions in Britain, Germania, and Scandinavia. The "endless horde of easterners" concept is very tasteless, uneducated, and ORIENTALIST to the core.

I thought that CA had finished up their Germanocentrism with the Last Roman DLC and especially after they created the Empires of Sand. Seeing them jump back into their comfort zone of Western Europe for Charlemagne does not impress me at all. Especially while the Grand Campaign is still missing some essential cultural groups.

[DisgruntledGoat]

these types of games have a responsibility to help open one's eyes to what was going on in other places at the time.

No it doesn't. Its a game, its only responsibility is to be fun.

[Darios]

No it doesn't. Its a game, its only responsibility is to be fun.

Fighting endless stacks of yellow and purple Sassanids isn't fun, it is tedious.

[DisgruntledGoat]

Fighting endless stacks of yellow and purple Sassanids isn't fun, it is tedious.

But now your argument is totally different. Before it was about a willful focus on german factions at the expense of providing eastern factions and a slav DLC and that CA has a responsibility to inform its customers of events in history outside of the typical historical focus. Now you just don't like the game mechanic. Which could be improved without touching the historicity of the game. In fact, the endless stacks of yellow and purple could be fixed by making the game even less historically correct. My point remains, the only responsiblity of the game is to be fun. Whether CA has achieved that is a whole different discussion. You have yet to explain why this responsibility for anything other than fun is there.

[Ed Gibby]

What culture groups are in your opinion missing in the grand campaign?

[Africanus236]

You are not CA but you know the answer? Have you spoken to any of them or you can read their minds?
If you have spoken to any of them...please share with us your expirience. IF NOT let us ask for answers to our questions. Wise people do not speak when they have no answers at all.
If that matter is not a consern of yours please allow our right to be our consern to ask answers.

Or he did what anyone else would do and looked at the game and the DLC released, and said "Considering Attila, and the culture packs released thus far, CA and/or SEGA wanted this game to be focused more on Western Europe". It's amazing what one can do with the power of observation; it means you don't have to ask questions that have simple answers.

[Sharpe]

Rekt.

[FrozenmenSS]

What culture groups are in your opinion missing in the grand campaign?

Slavs,Sassanids,Nomads like the Avars,Bulgars White and Red Huns and so on....

[Darios]

What culture groups are in your opinion missing in the grand campaign?

Slavic - Vendians, Sclavenians, Anteans
Caucasian - Armenia, Lazica
Eastern Germanic (yup!) - Gepids and Herulians
Sarmatian - Izyages, Alans
Nomadic - Bulgars, Hephthalites

[The Chocolate Jesus]

Seemlingly nationalistic discussions aside. I'd love to see some more variety in the North Eastern part of the map. A Slavic faction DLC would be huge step into the direction of more variety. Add Armenia and some Steppe tribes to that list and then you'd have a pretty fleshed out list of factions. Personally I am just tired of seeing Slavic tribes being represented by Germanic placeholder rosters. On the other hand though...It's all just a personal wish. I don't get offended (as some people in this thread obviously are) by the fact that a faction that might have some relations to my home country is not playable.