Charlemagne DLC Incoming?

[Tankbustaz]

The renaissance started ONLY when refuges from Roman lands arrived in Italy and brought their knowlege with them.
Industrial revolution actually COPPIED the Arabic evolution of Hellenistic and Roman devices! Even the steam engine was NOT a industrial revolution machine!
Actually enlightenment DID brought intolerance. Before 15th century there was a complete religius tolerance in most of the world. The "germanocentric" civilised crusaders of the 1st crusade ruined that tolerance by eating 180 people in a small village outside Jerusaleem!
The "germanocentric" civilised europeans destroyed all the American civilisation and enslaved millions of africans in the name of God!
The "germanocentric" civilised europeans looted all cultural artifacts of civilisations they could not even dream about and created what you call Museums and called other people's heritage "world's common heritage" to justify that looting!
Even "nationalism" is not a The "germanocentric" civilised europeans invention! National identity was known before Christ exept to some barbarians that could not even speak!

>europeans eating middle eastern women.
is this a porno?

[robtim92]

Actually History proves that the "ideals" that formed modern europe came from the Constantinople Romans ussing the Spanish Arabs as vessels of knowlege...
You see...that fact should interest people and that point could difuse modern nationalism and hate a lot!
Tolerance and share of knowlege did not survived in western europe unforthunatly though, infecting the entire globe!

You honestly seem to be the only one here with nationalism and hate.

[The Despondent Mind]

Isn't Charlemagne like 400 years after the events of Atilla? Wouldn't it make more sense for it to be a dlc for a medieval themed game.

[Darios]

The "germanocentric" civilised crusaders of the 1st crusade ruined that tolerance by eating 180 people in a small village outside Jerusaleem!

Woah dude, that really happened? I'd love to read the story on that

EDIT: After googling the subject on hand, I found on Wiki:

Maarat was not as rich as the crusaders had hoped and they were still short of supplies and food as December progressed. Most of the soldiers and knights preferred to continue the march to Jerusalem, caring little for the political dispute between Bohemond and Raymond, and Raymond tried to buy the support of the other leaders. While the leaders negotiated away from the city, some of the starving crusaders at Maarat reportedly resorted to cannibalism, feeding on the dead bodies of Muslims.

A chronicler, Radulph of Caen wrote (in 1107, 9 years after the fact):

Some people said that, constrained by the lack of food, they boiled pagan adults in cooking-pots, impaled children on spits and devoured them grilled.

These events were also chronicled by Fulcher of Chartres, who wrote:
I shudder to tell that many of our people, harassed by the madness of excessive hunger, cut pieces from the buttocks of the Saracens already dead there, which they cooked, but when it was not yet roasted enough by the fire, they devoured it with savage mouth.

Albert of Aix remarked that "the Christians did not shrink from eating not only killed Turks or Saracens, but even dogs..." ("Nam Christiani non solum Turcos vel Sarracenos occisos, verum etiam canes arreptos (...)")

wow!

[Gillam I]

If this is true I am very excited for it. I have been watching the Karlin mod with excitement.

I always found when playing Atilla, thinking, why didn't you make this into Med3? I didn't really get the feel for Atilla, it didn't click with me, I was always wanting more. I also didn't get Atilla on a commercial side.

Now Charlemagne could really work well, have it on going till 1066 working towards ME3

[AnthoniusII]

Woah dude, that really happened? I'd love to read the story on that

EDIT: After googling the subject on hand, I found on Wiki:

Maarat was not as rich as the crusaders had hoped and they were still short of supplies and food as December progressed. Most of the soldiers and knights preferred to continue the march to Jerusalem, caring little for the political dispute between Bohemond and Raymond, and Raymond tried to buy the support of the other leaders. While the leaders negotiated away from the city, some of the starving crusaders at Maarat reportedly resorted to cannibalism, feeding on the dead bodies of Muslims.

A chronicler, Radulph of Caen wrote (in 1107, 9 years after the fact):

Some people said that, constrained by the lack of food, they boiled pagan adults in cooking-pots, impaled children on spits and devoured them grilled.

These events were also chronicled by Fulcher of Chartres, who wrote:
I shudder to tell that many of our people, harassed by the madness of excessive hunger, cut pieces from the buttocks of the Saracens already dead there, which they cooked, but when it was not yet roasted enough by the fire, they devoured it with savage mouth.

Albert of Aix remarked that "the Christians did not shrink from eating not only killed Turks or Saracens, but even dogs..." ("Nam Christiani non solum Turcos vel Sarracenos occisos, verum etiam canes arreptos (...)")

wow!

I said it before and I will keep saying it "History is cruel because is full of FACTS".
Some people "accuse" me as nationalist only to justify their lack of history knowlege.
The massacre of the Spanish Jews after Granada fall in Spain is "unknown" were the Civilised western European Christians baptised Jews by force and then executed them to "save their solvs".
They did this in Africa but mainly they did it again in Americas that the natives execusion after baptisism considered "humain"!
Knowing history is a good way to prevent new mistakes like those we actually live in Iraq and Syria today.
If anyone of us thinks a second that knows everything about history then he/she will remain uneducated completly. Only those that feel that they need to learn more and more , have real hopes to learn alot!
I am not a nationalist..What i am trying here to say is that :
Customers have the right to have the game they paid for first before "forced" to buy more game parts.
Game industry must show equal respect to all cultures and civilisations on the globe.
That's all. I am a GREEK , that's fine but I like Shogun I and Shogun II. Many people would like for once to play something realy unique in TW games.
Fantasy is one step, but wouldn't be also a great step to see Chinese Kingdoms or the strugle of Power in India of 300 BC-1000AD?

[Abdülmecid I]

I said it before and I will keep saying it "History is cruel because is full of FACTS".

Well, Anthony, you constantly keep ignoring several historical facts, like the role the Italian merchant city-states and muslim Iberia played in the Renaissance, the inexistence of any connection between the Industrial Revolution and Heron's machine, the persecution many religious minorities suffered, from the Jews of Visigothic Spain to pagans and Paulicians of the Byantine Empire, the fact that the Crusaders were called by the Byzantine Emperor to save his state from the Seljuk raids (in which they succeeded) or that every European, like pretty much every human being, including the Germanic tribesmen, could speak before 1 AD, to name a few. The last one was a particularly racist statement, to be honest.

[AnthoniusII]

No not really, wouldn't interest me in the slightest. I speak for all of Britain.

We want a ME3, no WH, no Space Marines, No Ninja's we want Medieval WARFARE!!

And what would be the medieval 3 tw game for you?

Well, Anthony, you constantly keep ignoring several historical facts, like the role the Italian merchant city-states and muslim Iberia played in the Renaissance, the inexistence of any connection between the Industrial Revolution and Heron's machine, the persecution many religious minorities suffered, from the Jews of Visigothic Spain to pagans and Paulicians of the Byantine Empire, the fact that the Crusaders were called by the Byzantine Emperor to save his state from the Seljuk raids (in which they succeeded) or that every European, like pretty much every human being, including the Germanic tribesmen, could speak before 1 AD, to name a few. The last one was a particularly racist statement, to be honest.

I do not ignore anything...
Its true that 1st crusade was called by Romans.
Its true that Crusaders never kept their oaths as Christians and massacred christians, jews and muslims alike!
But as all historians admit...the migration of Roman (byzantine for the uneducated people) philoshophers, doctors and scholars actually created Renaissance.
Also its VERY true that in the Islamic world (before Ottomans prevail) there was a true religius and cultural tolerance.
Spanish Emirates has Muslims, Christians and Jews free to worship their God and free to trade with each other even create Banks 3 centuries before the 1st european bank would be excomunicated by the Pope!
No one says that Romans were saints...

[haikiller11]

About the crusades, everyone in western Europe knows about their "Hannibal Lector level of barbarity" so there is no need to pretend that you are enlightening us.

[Gillam I]

And what would be the medieval 3 tw game for you?

I'd consider two options

1066 ---1500 (pretty much as ME2) Norman invasion

or as suggest in this thread

800 --- but again till 1500.

I've always wanted to fight as Mercia, or Wessex take over England and carry on the glory as such. Like Viking invasion but on a grander scale. I never understood why they didn't include "challenging for the throne" In theory you could start as a Duke/Earl of land build up, then challenge for title of King. (Also acquiring all those lands)

[Fanest]

This thread is full of Eastern European haters and nationalists tbh. Can we just enjoy the game instead of shouting I want my "maybe" ancestor lol.
About the crusades, everyone in western Europe knows about their "Hannibal Lector level of barbarity" so there is no need to pretend that you are enlightening us.

Its not that at all its just that there huge discrepancy between detail in western and eastern part of the map. If u draw a line at Constantinople which is somewhere in the middle of whole map then in the eastern part of the map u have 8 playable factions while in the western u have 16, and even less land mass.

[Baldwin of Jerusalem]

The renaissance started ONLY when refuges from Roman lands arrived in Italy and brought their knowlege with them.
Industrial revolution actually COPPIED the Arabic evolution of Hellenistic and Roman devices! Even the steam engine was NOT a industrial revolution machine!
Actually enlightenment DID brought intolerance. Before 15th century there was a complete religius tolerance in most of the world. The "germanocentric" civilised crusaders of the 1st crusade ruined that tolerance by eating 180 people in a small village outside Jerusaleem!
The "germanocentric" civilised europeans destroyed all the American civilisation and enslaved millions of africans in the name of God!
The "germanocentric" civilised europeans looted all cultural artifacts of civilisations they could not even dream about and created what you call Museums and called other people's heritage "world's common heritage" to justify that looting!
Even "nationalism" is not a The "germanocentric" civilised europeans invention! National identity was known before Christ exept to some barbarians that could not even speak!

1. Yes, refugees who brought back predominantly Greek learning. Greco Roman culture is the father of Western civilization. All educated westerners are aware of that and it in no way diminishes our sense of worth.
2. The Industrial revolution began in the west, predominantly in England. To suggest otherwise is simply incorrect.
3. The steam engine was patented by a European and all of its modern usages are of course western.
4. There was certainly NOT a worldwide religious sense of tolerance before the 15th century. (This statement is actually quite bizarre). As for crusaders eating people in a small village in the middle east, this is obviously barbaric and is part of the horrors of war. You should check out a map of the battles fought during the crusades and compare them with a map of battles of conquest during the expansion of the Caliphate. No comparison in scale whatsoever.
5. Germanicised people did indeed conquer America but are you suggesting that the massive expanse of land in America would be better utilised by stoneage hunter gatherers than it is now?
6. Museums were indeed looted and the treasures taken back to Europe but we would not even be aware of most of most ancient Egyptian treasures or have translated hieroglyphics without Europeans. The ruling Turks of the time were not in the least concerned about them. Only Islam.
7. Nationalism? Meh...everyone else is welcome to take the credit for that..lol

[Kraut]

...

Dude, you might slow down your rant a little. It is getting creepy.

[sam3330]

Again an again yous say the game companies should respect and represent al cultures, but that is just not the case they make their product and therefore they determine what this product is. If CA wants to make a game about whinnie the pooh invading eeaster island it is there right to do so, if you don't like just don't buy it. We cannot, surely if you talk about tolerance and freedom as you do, determine what kind of products companies make.

[Emperor Caesar]

I love the idea of a Charlemagne DLC but I'm still waiting for my Arthurian age campaign haha! Please CA

[Retógenes]

All my hopes in this DLC are in the presence of a proper republic system in the Republic of Venice, the Ancient Empires team will probably make wonderful things with it.

[IlluminatiRex]

Re-Opened. Let's keep personal insults about others out of this, shall we?

[Ciruelo]

Isn't Charlemagne like 400 years after the events of Atilla? Wouldn't it make more sense for it to be a dlc for a medieval themed game.

CA will be busy a couple of years with the fantasy trilogy so don't wait for a medieval themed game in at least 3 years. I think they give us this DLC because a lot of people claim for a Medieval 3 and they will not be able to do it in short term, so this is going to be our little M3 I guess.

[Darios]

CA will be busy a couple of years with the fantasy trilogy so don't wait for a medieval themed game in at least 3 years. I think they give us this DLC because a lot of people claim for a Medieval 3 and they will not be able to do it in short term, so this is going to be our little M3 I guess.

I agree with you, this campaign seems to be designed as a way to hold over the Medieval 3 crowd over while CA goes into full blown WARHAMMER mode. Unfortunately though, I feel that this scenario is going to leave people lacking due to it being a mini campaign and not a Grand Campaign. Mini-campaigns have no staying power and after you complete it once (victory conditions usually involving conquering most of the map's provinces à la TLR) you realize that there's nothing else left to explore.

[Fraxinicus]

So, using the faction list in the OP, I overlaid them all over a province map for CKII, using the CKII political borders for reference (their Charlemagne expansion starts just one year after this, assuming the leak is true). Ignore the square on the left, I used screenshots from CKII to take colors for the map.

What you see in the first pic is just the borders of the CKII realms, with a few caveats. There isn't perfect overlap between CKII realms and the factions, although it's pretty close. There are several Burgundian factions that I had to unite into one, and the Saxon setup is totally different (no Westfalia-Eastfalia-Nordalbingia-Angria split).

Assuming that the faction list is more or less complete, we can assume the following about the game:

It will cover the area outlined in red. Very possible that the Avar realm will be split off, and they will just appear as nomadic hordes on the edge of the map.
More detailed vassal mechanics are likely, as several realms that had some sort of pre-feudal structure are highly divided (both Frankish realms, Lombardy, Umayyad Iberia).
The Roman Empire will only appear in game via the Theme of Sicily, which will probably own Sardinia and the Balearics if those appear in game.
Slavs will only appear in the form of two minor tribes near the Saxons, the Bohemians further south, and the Croatians yet further.
The leak very probably left out a few factions. There were Galician rebels in the list, but no Galicia, so either the rebels are a code relic, a misnomer for generic Iberian Christian rebels, or indicative of another faction. The lack of any viking factions aside from Denmark is also striking.

Taken straight from CKII realms/vassals:


Filled in with one possible likely division of borders: