Ancient Empires Battle System VS DEI battle system

**Terror of Phobos** · October 03, 2015, 03:39 PM

Hey all,

If anyone has used AE submod will know by now that the battle system is a bit different. I am thinking of trying it out{the submod} and can someone explain me the difference between the two battle systems and which ones you prefer?

thanks in advance

**TFCAliarcy** · October 03, 2015, 05:00 PM

The major difference is that stats are decreased to a system with 1 hp. This results in a shift of power, now it is even less about killing your enemy and about routing them. There are different shifts in styles to play by faction, for example the Suebi are an almost exclusively ambushing faction due to their low armor, high charge, high attack, and lots of Javelins. Spear units (or at least the stats say) no longer have a bonus versus cavalry but are even better at holding than before. Unit range was shifted around, Longbows now have the longest range of 180. Light cavalry are very important as they will be needed to kill routing troops, however there is a issue where routing troops can kill enemies. The amount of ammo each unit has is reduced so that Javelins tend to have 4, archers with 13, and slinger more (I forgot the exact number.) Elephants are now more useful for their scare effect, however they are very fragile and can be killed rather easily due to have 1 hp. All around engagements take longer and are more so in favor of the player because of that. Fatigue can easily route units and it become important to take troops out of melee and have them rest to regain their ability to fight and morale. Also Roman troops got buffed to the point where it is hard to kill Imperial era troops even in an ambush. I prefer the AE battle system and campaign for a variety of reasons.

**ThatWhichThinks** · October 03, 2015, 10:58 PM

Wait, so elephants have 1 hp as well? Why would they make elephants have the same hp as a human? It seems like that would ruin any semblance of sense or realism in battles where elephants are concerned.

**Matmannen** · October 06, 2015, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by ThatWhichThinks

Wait, so elephants have 1 hp as well? Why would they make elephants have the same hp as a human? It seems like that would ruin any semblance of sense or realism in battles where elephants are concerned.

Yes, that is very strange. In previous TW games where a one HP system was used, like Rome Total War (God rest it's soul) Generals had 2 Hp, Beserkers, Woad Warriors and Bastarnae had 2 Hp, Chariots had 2 Hp and elephants had 10 Hp...

**TFCAliarcy** · October 03, 2015, 11:35 PM

Most units have armor, Elephants also have armor, what is interesting though is that don't seem to have a lot of armor yet they tend to have good survivability. They generally perform the same purpose they preform before but are strangely more vulnerable to cavalry.

**KAM 2150** · October 04, 2015, 03:13 AM

Also keep in mind that currently experimental pack is leading DeI battle system and in modified, more developed way will be included in 1.1

**COWMAN55** · October 05, 2015, 03:34 PM

I'm wondering how 1.1 will affect AE. Will it change unit names to the historical names and will it help to polish AE more, or are those things that need to be changed directly in the AE mod folder themselves. Also will 1.1 make AE unusable until it is updated

**Sheridan** · October 06, 2015, 06:26 AM

I would start by saying that our combat system, as working in Rome II, is a far cry from what the mod will eventually feature. But it struck me that this is practically true about any mod still receiving support; DeI no less than others. Bearing this in mind, there are still enough aspects that set the two systems apart so fundamentally that, despite neither being a complete revision, you can break down and analyze the main facets and extrapolate sufficient information to make some sort of comparison.

If we move on to the subject of elephants and their guesstimated hitpoints, I can point out they have several. The exact number doesn't come to mind, less so knowing that there are some variations between African and Asian elephants, but the figure should come close to 6 or 8, far more than any other entity in the mod.

**Irishmafia2020** · October 06, 2015, 09:10 PM

Will there be a fix for the factional mercenary problems? I am very impressed by Ancient Empires, but it can be really annoying not being able to hire factional mercenaries because of the problems related to them - factions like Carthage lose a lot of their flavor (I mean missing horses/elephants etc). The battles seem pretty even from my experience, although at the moment I prefer the DEI system as I am more used to it... I look forward to deeper testing when the factional mercenaries are fixed!

**Matmannen** · October 07, 2015, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by Irishmafia2020

Will there be a fix for the factional mercenary problems? I am very impressed by Ancient Empires, but it can be really annoying not being able to hire factional mercenaries because of the problems related to them - factions like Carthage lose a lot of their flavor (I mean missing horses/elephants etc). The battles seem pretty even from my experience, although at the moment I prefer the DEI system as I am more used to it... I look forward to deeper testing when the factional mercenaries are fixed!

What is the problem with the factional mercenaries, as far as I know, Egypt and Carthage are the only ones that have any...

**Irishmafia2020** · October 07, 2015, 08:41 PM

Epirus has (for example) elephants and Tarantine cavalry that lack mounts (no elephants or horses), and there seems to be a problems with some of the unmounted units as well. In DEI almost all of the factions have factional mercenaries, and it seems like even more mercs have been added to Carthage in AE. Players report that the factional mercenaries from a number of factions lack mounts (Baktria etc). AE still has a beautiful campaign - a lot of the features are mind blowing - but for a couple of factions the lack of factional mercenaries could create difficulties. I imagine that Carthage is the faction that loses the most, since they have 5-6 factional mercs in AE, and they are a mercenary using faction by nature. Apparently the problem stems from db issues wherein the mercenary units in question have a different number of mounts than soldiers assigned to the unit - so 120 horses and 200 soldiers for example. It's hardly game breaking, but I am hoping for a fix before I really get into an ancient empires campaign. My first few battles were disrupted by this bug when I hired a lot of mercenaries (as Epirus) and discovered that my expensive elephants and Tarantine cavalry were in fact a few clubmen (the elephant riders) and unmounted peltasts! I therefore don't feel qualified to comment in depth on the battle system yet, which in fact is what this thread is about. I may experiment with editing the DB files to see if I can fix the units, but I imagine that the AI is hiring them as well, so I would have to eventually fix them all.