Historical Army Composition?

[rovert]

What are some army make up 's that one would use in EB , using the 20 slots given that you can fight up to 8000-9000 at 1 time in game.


Rome ?

Eperios ?

Carthage ?

Macedon ?

Pergamon??

or any of the other factions that are mostly complete atm.

[QuintusSertorius]

Before you get to your army, we also have to address your approach (incidentally, what campaign difficulty are you playing on?). Look at your screenshot:



Two things are immediately apparent:
1) It's only turn 71 and you've wiped out Makedonia and driven Koinon Hellenon out of Greece. By blitzing those factions right out of the gate, you remove any challenge they might have posed.
2) From the tiny garrisons you have in all those settlements, you're exploiting the common culture, and not stationing appropriate levels of garrison in any of those places. Especially the larger ones. Which is a direct result of 1).

So if you want the challenge that we're trying to provide, you need to go much slower than that. Build up more than one army, move slowly enough to properly garrison a place and install an FM governor there before moving on. Establish an appropriate government and recruit an appropriate-sized garrison before thinking of the next place you're going to hit. Use your agents to keep your enemies busy while you consolidate your holdings. Have you got spies and assassins causing trouble for the Boii, right there on your northern border, for example?

What are your diplomats doing? Given how little of your minimap is revealed, I'm guessing you're not making much use of them to walk the map?

In towns, four units might be an appropriate-sized garrison to represent the reserves of manpower (or troops needed to keep order). But when you're looking at cities like Athenai and Korinthos, at least eight units is doing it more justice. Which would also soak up some of that money you're swimming in. Before you're flush with cash, make use of all those unused minor settlements to absorb some of the cost of your larger garrisons. It's also a ward against someone landing an army in Greece and rolling up half your settlements before you can respond.

Also, where are your navies? The best guard against someone doing the above is to have your own fleets patrolling the waters. Perhaps stick a spy on one fleet as a long-range detector of things.


Now let's talk armies. Is this representative of how you tend to build them?



Firstly, full stacks make things too easy, and I sometimes find the CAI will avoid giving battle when you will often outnumber them. 20 units is too many, aim for 15-16 units instead. It's no wonder you're facing multiple stacks at once, when that's the only way the AI feels safe attacking you.

Secondly, that kind of uniformity is not very interesting or historical, and makes it far too easy to retrain/merge out losses and keep going. Retraining is generally an exploit in favour of the player, too, the AI is not very consistent even when it does it at all. Especially if it's getting blitzed.

Thirdly, three units of Kretan archers? No slingers or javelineers? There's no balance to it at all. Everything is armoured, which again makes things pretty easy against factions less well-provided for.

Fourthly, six units of Phalangitai is again easy mode; stick them in the middle of the line and anything the enemy throws at it will get chewed up while you flank it. Same goes for too many units of Thureophoroi and Machairophoroi. You've built an optimal army from your too-fast expansion and construction of colonies, not a historical one.


If you are taking your time to construct and use a force, rather than building something that's efficient for switching out depleted units and using the most effective ones you have, you can get a different kind of experience. If you have multiple armies, you can also distinguish the royal stack, led by the king, from others. You should try to keep an elite unit with your Faction Leader at all times (Hetairoi, Hypaspistai, Peltastai Makedones, Agema Phalangitai). Armies they lead can be of higher quality than others, ie fewer levies.

An example royal army (pre-reforms) might be thus:
1 x Faction Leader
1 x other FM
1 x Xystophoroi
1 x Kurepos

2 x Phalangitai
1 x Mercenary Phalangitai
1 x Illyrian Light Phalanx
1 x Hypaspistai
1 x Hoplitai
1 x Mercenary Hoplitai
1 x Illyrian Hoplitai

1 x Kretan Archers
1 x Illyrian Peltastai
1 x Akontistai
1 x Sphendonetai


That's possibly a little heavy on the skirmishers in the last block, but note the lack of repeating units for the most part, and the presence of foreign troops, mercenaries and levies.


For garrisons, I tend to go with something like this. For a town:
1 x FM (governor)
1 x Hoplitai
1 x Hoplitai Haploi
1 x Akontistai
1 x Toxotai

For a larger place:
1 x FM (governor)
1 x Hippakontistai
2 x Hoplitai
2 x Hoplitai Haploi
2 x Akontistai
1 x Toxotai

For the biggest, add Hippeis, more Haploi, then more Hoplitai.

[rovert]

and then there is this type of battles you must deal with , very hard with 16 units

[rovert]

i wouldn't take to much from all the SS , i'm more or less testing and forcing situations to see how things go a bit later in the game .

I got the grey death going in that Macedon campaign , i started taking there territory & all they sent at me was 75% Levy armies led by Captains & almost 0 Phalanx. Def am missing those Silver Shield , Crazy Armored Guy , Cataphract Armies the Grey death would send in EB1.

I see what your saying having about 16 rather than 20 , most of the AI stacks are 2500 pretty regular .

[QuintusSertorius]

If you were using 16 units, you'd be more likely to get three separate battles, rather than them waiting until they outnumbered you with multiple armies before attacking.

[rovert]

actually that is largest 1 I have encountered and I forced it into happening by sieging Kydonia , retreating when attacked and then all 3 were there .

Normally with the 20 stack , they don't attack unless i force it somehow & if they do its mostly 2 - 2500 stacks that do , I'm playing with Bosporos atm I'm gonna try with max 16 stack and see how it goes , given there lack of funds and troops i might have to start as someone else.

[rovert]

here you go , should like this army , i could have thrown a Hellenic light cav in there but just NO , Hippikonostai is a waste of unit slot i actually used to delete it from the game all together in EB1 .

[QuintusSertorius]

That's more like it. Are you playing 2.04j? Or at least 2.04i, there was an important update for the Bosporans in 2.04i.

Why have you got so much money? And so little of the map explored?

[rovert]

Just sit around building for some turns , save up for a bit so i can afford a campaign to take a city , that army runs me -1400 total income.
And i always forget about my Diplomats & spies , i get the message that there dead before i remember them



A little better now that i have the 3rd city . Oh and I use the new version everytime it comes out so 204j

[Barnabas]

I'm well aware of the lack of resources regarding the barbarian factions but still maybe you guys can throw me a more educated guess army composition rather than: the elite warriors tend to go front, they relied on individual heroism and shock tactics to scare the enemy off, many skirmishes and all out charges..
Anyone wanna have a go at either some celtic "likely" army compositions or some from getae?

[QuintusSertorius]

I'm well aware of the lack of resources regarding the barbarian factions but still maybe you guys can throw me a more educated guess army composition rather than: the elite warriors tend to go front, they relied on individual heroism and shock tactics to scare the enemy off, many skirmishes and all out charges..
Anyone wanna have a go at either some celtic "likely" army compositions or some from getae?

Biggest problem with Celtic armies in the current release is the lack of two critical levy units - the Uassoi (levy spearmen) and Koxsolatoi (levy javelineers). Composition of an authentic Celtic army should be something like this:
25-33% cavalry (mostly light)
10% veteran/elite (Argoi, Solduroi, Drutonedammoi, Gaesatae)
20-25% semi-professional (Kingetoi, Bataroas/Garkokladoi)
40% levy (Archers, Slingers, Spearmen, Javelineers)

In the meantime, try something like this (Aedui/Arverni):
2 x Family Members
1 x Donno Eporedoi
3 x Leuce Epos

1 x Argoi
1 x Drutonedammoi
2 x Bataroas
3 x Kingetoi

2 x Sotaroas
2 x Klappagnetoi

In the autumn release, you'd drop one each from the last four units, adding 2 x Uassoi and 2 x Koxsolatoi instead. You can also mix things up with British and Germanic mercs replacing some of those units.


The Getai suffer from a similar issue in the test build, but this time it's the lack of Thracians to fill things out. They'll have a proper levy base with the Komatai (levy javelineers), Thraikioi Aichmetai (levy spearmen), Komatai Toxotai (levy archers) and Thraikioi Sphendonetai (levy slingers), in the autumn release.

With what we currently have (assuming 2.04j so you at least have properly mounted FMs):
2 x FMs
1 x Mezenai
2 x Getikoi Hippotoxotai

4 x Getikoi Stratiotai
1 x Drapanai
1 x Komatai Epilektoi
2 x Komatai

2 x Komatai Toxotai (replace one with Celtic Slingers when available)

[Barnabas]

This is all great knowledge to increase the roleplay aspect of the game for me.
Thanks man!