Media

[morfeasnikos]

Here is a place to put our screens, videos etc...

[morfeasnikos]

Athens vs Thebes

[Phalangitis]

Great stuff..Mr Director..
I will put this rep ontop all others i owe you..

[Hoplite of Ilis]

Why don't I ever see videos of Rome 2 with music from Ben Hur, Quo Vadis and the sort? Why? Why? Why?... Don't get me wrong Nick! It's just a thing o' mine! But Nick, you gotta do it! .....Hmm... Maybe I should do it.. Somebody has to do it! Great video Nick!!! It wouldn't be a bad idea to have our own soundtrack. If people managed to use the superb RTW ost into Rome 2, why can't we have our own?

[charlieh]

Great video Morfeasnikos. Loved watching the edging forward movement of the hoplites.

[morfeasnikos]

Thank you all !
I am not a pro but i am trying my best.

[Massicio2]

Thank you all !
I am not a pro but i am trying my best.

Could have fooled me! Great work on the video.

[morfeasnikos]

Could have fooled me! Great work on the video.

Thank you

[morfeasnikos]

Today Decoco has UL to the dev forums the new Boiotian or beotian (Great job he has done )
And i could not resist to see the Thespians with it. Maybe its not historical i dont know for sure, so i have add only for fun !
Screens

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[charlieh]

Can't praise those shields enough.

[Phalangitis]

Just a quick note all thespians will not have the Boiotian thureos. Only a special Boiotian unit will. It is a nice historic touch this unit with heavy research behind it..Read the preview of Athens in the Iphicratean section to get the idea

[Massicio2]

omg HNGG that shield.

Regarding the historicity, arguments can be made on both sides of the spectrum but look at how many conclusions are drawn from coins and other small relics. Generally speaking for many different civilizations and circumstances. Many hypotheses have been postulated on less evidence, it would be more questionable had the shield been depicted infrequently; however, its depicted pretty extensively on coins. Whether its purely a symbolic in nature or not has yet to be seen but there are scholarly articles for and against its use. Assuming it was used in the archaic period, my guess is that chances are it would have been used occasionally, however infrequent is up in the air. But personally, I love the Dipylon shield and given its plausibility, I think definitely has a place in the mod. Even if its only a special unit, I still think its an interesting addition and appreciate it!

**edit**

Would I contact Decoco for seeking permission to use the shield models?

[morfeasnikos]

omg HNGG that shield.
Would I contact Decoco for seeking permission to use the shield models?

When the mod its released all the parts can be used with permission, but i am not sure for all the parts, mine will be for sure.
If you want talk with Decoco !

[decoco]

When the mod its released all the parts can be used with permission, but i am not sure for all the parts, mine will be for sure.
If you want talk with Decoco !

When the mod is released, all my work will be used ! i think it's good think for the community !

[morfeasnikos]

When the mod is released, all my work will be used ! i think it's good think for the community !

Yes all for the modding community

[M@x1mus]

omg HNGG that shield.

Regarding the historicity, arguments can be made on both sides of the spectrum but look at how many conclusions are drawn from coins and other small relics. Generally speaking for many different civilizations and circumstances. Many hypotheses have been postulated on less evidence, it would be more questionable had the shield been depicted infrequently; however, its depicted pretty extensively on coins. Whether its purely a symbolic in nature or not has yet to be seen but there are scholarly articles for and against its use. Assuming it was used in the archaic period, my guess is that chances are it would have been used occasionally, however infrequent is up in the air. But personally, I love the Dipylon shield and given its plausibility, I think definitely has a place in the mod. Even if its only a special unit, I still think its an interesting addition and appreciate it!

**edit**

Would I contact Decoco for seeking permission to use the shield models?

The Boiotian unit which shall use boiotian thyreos, is a light infantry unit of the ekdromoi style, with longer spears. Read bellow the unit description to undersatnd better my and our team's point of view, concerning the existence of this specific shield.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For many historians the existence of the Boiotian shield during the classical age seems rather doubtful, drawing on the opinion that coins found in Boiotia dating from the classical age who do depict Boiotian shields are merely images projecting the heroic past of Boiotia. Some other writes, however, including Peter Connolly, support the idea that the Boiotians actually used the Boiotian shield during this timeframe. But according to this opinion it was not used in a classical hoplite phalanx due to the different grip and shape of the Boiotian shield, which inevitably left parts of the body unprotected and gaps in the line vulnerable to attack.
Peter Connolly and others who follow his thesis suggested that this shield was used in a more open formation along with a longer spear like a pike in order to exploit the moon-cuts of the shield. It is said that Boiotian shield was much lighter and cheaper than the Argive hoplon since it was made from leather and covered in wood. That explains why no shield of this type has ever been found, and also makes the historians believe that poor Boiotian citizens used this shield because of the comparatevily low cost.

Later, during the life of Epameinondas, when democracy had been established and many poorer citizens joined the army, the Boiotian shield became common among their ranks. If we may have an opinion on this, we support the idea that the Boiotian shield existed during the classical era and was more than simply a symbol of the heroic past. It was a shield commonly used by poor Boiotian citizens, who were not able to join the ranks of hoplites. But when democracy was established and many of the poor joined the Theban army in a more professional role, Epameinondas, inspired by the great Athenian general Iphikrates, (Iphicrates created an unit of peltast-hoplites carrying much longer spears and the smaller and lighter pelte shields. Look for the Iphicrateans in the Athenian preview) armed those who carried Boiotian shields with pikes and deployed them in a more open formation than the classical hoplitic phalanx (as Connolly says) in order to fully exploit the elements of the shield and make them robust enough for a fight with heavy hoplites.

Another reason to strongly believe Connolly's theory is the example of Philip II of Makedon. It is commonly known that Philip was strongly inspired to reform the Makedonian army from what he saw in Thebes. But what exactly did he see there in order to create an army full of pikes? That's why we believe that Iphikrates started the development when he created his peltast-hoplite soldiers using all the lessons of the Peloponnesian war, Epameinondas was inspired by him and finally Philip used all the knowledge from his time in Thebes to invent a perfect army full of those soldiers with pikes and pelte shields, the Makedonian phalanx. We do not actually know how the afore mentioned troops were used by the Thebans so we can only speculate that they normally filled the last ranks of the Boiotian phalanxes in order to achieve the huge depths of 25-50 ranks. At least this may have been be their initial role before Epameinondas trained them and exploit all their benefits to make them into a force like the later Makedonian phalanx. Unfortunately its creation had to wait until the rule of Phillip in Makedon because of Epameinondas' early death at the battle of Mantineia.

About permission for using boiotian shield, there is no problem, but you should wait until the mod releases and then you can ask for it.

[Massicio2]

When the mod is released, all my work will be used ! i think it's good think for the community !

Yes all for the modding community

The Boiotian unit which shall use boiotian thyreos, is a light infantry unit of the ekdromoi style, with longer spears. Read bellow the unit description to undersatnd better my and our team's point of view, concerning the existence of this specific shield.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

For many historians the existence of the Boiotian shield during the classical age seems rather doubtful, drawing on the opinion that coins found in Boiotia dating from the classical age who do depict Boiotian shields are merely images projecting the heroic past of Boiotia. Some other writes, however, including Peter Connolly, support the idea that the Boiotians actually used the Boiotian shield during this timeframe. But according to this opinion it was not used in a classical hoplite phalanx due to the different grip and shape of the Boiotian shield, which inevitably left parts of the body unprotected and gaps in the line vulnerable to attack.
Peter Connolly and others who follow his thesis suggested that this shield was used in a more open formation along with a longer spear like a pike in order to exploit the moon-cuts of the shield. It is said that Boiotian shield was much lighter and cheaper than the Argive hoplon since it was made from leather and covered in wood. That explains why no shield of this type has ever been found, and also makes the historians believe that poor Boiotian citizens used this shield because of the comparatevily low cost.

Later, during the life of Epameinondas, when democracy had been established and many poorer citizens joined the army, the Boiotian shield became common among their ranks. If we may have an opinion on this, we support the idea that the Boiotian shield existed during the classical era and was more than simply a symbol of the heroic past. It was a shield commonly used by poor Boiotian citizens, who were not able to join the ranks of hoplites. But when democracy was established and many of the poor joined the Theban army in a more professional role, Epameinondas, inspired by the great Athenian general Iphikrates, (Iphicrates created an unit of peltast-hoplites carrying much longer spears and the smaller and lighter pelte shields. Look for the Iphicrateans in the Athenian preview) armed those who carried Boiotian shields with pikes and deployed them in a more open formation than the classical hoplitic phalanx (as Connolly says) in order to fully exploit the elements of the shield and make them robust enough for a fight with heavy hoplites.

Another reason to strongly believe Connolly's theory is the example of Philip II of Makedon. It is commonly known that Philip was strongly inspired to reform the Makedonian army from what he saw in Thebes. But what exactly did he see there in order to create an army full of pikes? That's why we believe that Iphikrates started the development when he created his peltast-hoplite soldiers using all the lessons of the Peloponnesian war, Epameinondas was inspired by him and finally Philip used all the knowledge from his time in Thebes to invent a perfect army full of those soldiers with pikes and pelte shields, the Makedonian phalanx. We do not actually know how the afore mentioned troops were used by the Thebans so we can only speculate that they normally filled the last ranks of the Boiotian phalanxes in order to achieve the huge depths of 25-50 ranks. At least this may have been be their initial role before Epameinondas trained them and exploit all their benefits to make them into a force like the later Makedonian phalanx. Unfortunately its creation had to wait until the rule of Phillip in Makedon because of Epameinondas' early death at the battle of Mantineia.

About permission for using boiotian shield, there is no problem, but you should wait until the mod releases and then you can ask for it.

Thank you for all the responses! Every time you guys announce or preview anything the anticipation grows exponentially!

[Phalangitis]

I agree completyely on your approach Massicio2. We have talked internally about Boiotian thureos and we agreed on a certain approach on the matter. I can't find now the relative piece but when i do either mw or M@x1mus will pot it here to see our thought behind our choises.

[morfeasnikos]

A preview from the style of unit icons. The main inspiration for this are the ancient amphoras and i got very valuable help, he has teach me some new stuff that i did not know, from Gio (steam nick name)...thank you!

Elite hoplites - Heavy hoplites - Medium hoplites - light hoplites

[M@x1mus]

Outstanding Niko!!